Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is good stuff today. http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2015061...orts/150618856/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This article tells me that the Sox need to part ways with KW, among others. At this point I am quite alright with that. But it's funny how much my tune has changed since the offseason. I was adamant that KW not depart to be the Blue Jays CEO, as was JR. How foolish I was. That would have been a godsend. It might have been the one thing this franchise needed to really start heading in the right direction. Instead, I was wooed by the big free agents, the go for it mentality... AGAIN. I regrettably bought a 7 game plan when I've never bought a plan like that before! Now, in hindsight, how I wish that would have happened before we started acquiring players. But the fact that JR denied the Blue Jays KW, tells me we may be in store for more of the same longer then we'd like. JR hasn't got the stones to let KW go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Some inaccuracy. Laumann didn't preside over the 2001-2003 drafts. And the fact that Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook were in the Hawks OrganIzation when all these changes happened. Would the Hawks have won 3 cups and been as popular without McDonough? I am going to say probably. They were putting the home games on TV. Bill Wirtz was gone so no matter who took over would have been thought of as an upgrade, and their talent level was improving. I also think McDonough played a huge role in Brian Campbell's contract, which at least has been partially blamed on the Hawks having to dump players, although they did dump his contract...on Tallon. Would they have won even 1 cup or the 3 they did win if they stuck with Tallon and Savard? It's easy to say no, and it's probably the correct answer, but again we will never know. To try to copy another teams' "model" especially from another sport, is kind of hard to do, and there are several ways teams go about being successful. I don't understand how he can say this guy is bad, that guy is bad, but Hahn....he just hasn't been able to do what he wants to do. How does he know that? And if that is the case, and Hahn is/was willing to be someone's puppet, why would he be the guy for the job anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) This is good stuff today. http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2015061...orts/150618856/ "Reinsdorf's legendary loyalty can come at a cost to success"....................................I have said this many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think Hahn in many situations would be a good GM. I think he is smart and is able to identify pro talent reasonably well. I do not think he was the correct GM to oversee the demolition of the team after 2013, because he could not convince his bosses that trying to patch over that roster was necessary. But maybe nobody could have done that. Maybe nobody could have had the buy-in to fire Buddy Bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) Some inaccuracy. Laumann didn't preside over the 2001-2003 drafts. And the fact that Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook were in the Hawks OrganIzation when all these changes happened. Would the Hawks have won 3 cups and been as popular without McDonough? I am going to say probably. They were putting the home games on TV. Bill Wirtz was gone so no matter who took over would have been thought of as an upgrade, and their talent level was improving. I also think McDonough played a huge role in Brian Campbell's contract, which at least has been partially blamed on the Hawks having to dump players, although they did dump his contract...on Tallon. Would they have won even 1 cup or the 3 they did win if they stuck with Tallon and Savard? It's easy to say no, and it's probably the correct answer, but again we will never know. To try to copy another teams' "model" especially from another sport, is kind of hard to do, and there are several ways teams go about being successful. I don't understand how he can say this guy is bad, that guy is bad, but Hahn....he just hasn't been able to do what he wants to do. How does he know that? And if that is the case, and Hahn is/was willing to be someone's puppet, why would he be the guy for the job anyway? It really grinds my gears how much credit McDonough gets for the Hawks run of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) Some inaccuracy. Laumann didn't preside over the 2001-2003 drafts. And the fact that Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook were in the Hawks OrganIzation when all these changes happened. Would the Hawks have won 3 cups and been as popular without McDonough? I am going to say probably. They were putting the home games on TV. Bill Wirtz was gone so no matter who took over would have been thought of as an upgrade, and their talent level was improving. I also think McDonough played a huge role in Brian Campbell's contract, which at least has been partially blamed on the Hawks having to dump players, although they did dump his contract...on Tallon. Would they have won even 1 cup or the 3 they did win if they stuck with Tallon and Savard? It's easy to say no, and it's probably the correct answer, but again we will never know. To try to copy another teams' "model" especially from another sport, is kind of hard to do, and there are several ways teams go about being successful. I don't understand how he can say this guy is bad, that guy is bad, but Hahn....he just hasn't been able to do what he wants to do. How does he know that? And if that is the case, and Hahn is/was willing to be someone's puppet, why would he be the guy for the job anyway? Everyone seems to know but you. The media insiders know it and this is the writer who finally says it. I think even Kenny as GM had little control when it came to firings. I have no doubt Kenny would have fired Ozzie but JR got in the way and none of that nonsense would have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) I think Hahn in many situations would be a good GM. I think he is smart and is able to identify pro talent reasonably well. I do not think he was the correct GM to oversee the demolition of the team after 2013, because he could not convince his bosses that trying to patch over that roster was necessary. But maybe nobody could have done that. Maybe nobody could have had the buy-in to fire Buddy Bell. In most sane sports organizations Bell would have been fired. My guess he is an investor. Even if ownership were to change you would need a guy to fire unproductive people. There are plenty of scouts and instructors who need to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) Everyone seems to know but you. The media insiders know it and this is the writer who finally says it. I think even Kenny as GM had little control when it came to firings. I have no doubt Kenny would have fired Ozzie but JR got in the way and none of that nonsense would have happened. So everyone but me knows everyone with the White Sox is the problem but Rick Hahn. Hahn was praised and praised and praised for the White Sox wheeling and dealing this past offseason, and when those players didn't perform, suddenly, he really had nothing to do with it. It was KW. It was JR. It's because Robin is managing. I don't mind Rick Hahn. I just don't understand assuming he is blameless here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 03:51 PM) So everyone but me knows everyone with the White Sox is the problem but Rick Hahn. Hahn was praised and praised and praised for the White Sox wheeling and dealing this past offseason, and when those players didn't perform, suddenly, he really had nothing to do with it. It was KW. It was JR. It's because Robin is managing. I don't mind Rick Hahn. I just don't understand assuming he is blameless here. (Raises hand like an excited 3rd grader who knows the answer) Oh, oh, I know someone who wants Rick Hahn removed!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 08:29 PM) It really grinds my gears how much credit McDonough gets for the Hawks run of success. i am sooo with you on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) I think Hahn in many situations would be a good GM. I think he is smart and is able to identify pro talent reasonably well. I do not think he was the correct GM to oversee the demolition of the team after 2013, because he could not convince his bosses that trying to patch over that roster was necessary. But maybe nobody could have done that. Maybe nobody could have had the buy-in to fire Buddy Bell. i think that is the key, no - one would have been able to convince the owners group to do that, not when there was too many lap dogs tell him other things. i feel sorry of RV and the legacy he will leave behind as well, as kw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 08:51 PM) So everyone but me knows everyone with the White Sox is the problem but Rick Hahn. Hahn was praised and praised and praised for the White Sox wheeling and dealing this past offseason, and when those players didn't perform, suddenly, he really had nothing to do with it. It was KW. It was JR. It's because Robin is managing. I don't mind Rick Hahn. I just don't understand assuming he is blameless here. for me and i will say this, even in this past off season, if the sox are going to buy into the rebuild, do it completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) for me and i will say this, even in this past off season, if the sox are going to buy into the rebuild, do it completely. Impossible when the ownership supports loyalty over performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) Impossible when the ownership supports loyalty over performance. and that is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As I pointed out yesterday, JR is 79, wants to see another winner and therefore not going to rebuild the franchise from the ground up. We will continue to see this " rebuild on the fly" bulls***, not because of KW or Hahn, but because its what JR wants. I do believe in Hahn and I'm no fan of KW but both of them have their hands tied since JR has the final say as to what direction this team goes. Like it or not, it is what it is and it smells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 04:25 PM) Impossible when the ownership supports loyalty over performance. But why are the Bulls run differently??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:01 PM) But why are the Bulls run differently??? different managers at the helm of the bull org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) Everyone seems to know but you. The media insiders know it and this is the writer who finally says it. I think even Kenny as GM had little control when it came to firings. I have no doubt Kenny would have fired Ozzie but JR got in the way and none of that nonsense would have happened. All of the baseball insiders were praising the moves of Rick Hahn this off season. Most of them said he was second in "winning" the off season. not one mention about how KW did this off season. So, I guess only radio show hosts and posters here know the inside information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 05:01 PM) But why are the Bulls run differently??? I find it difficult to say the Bulls are run differently. John Paxson and Gar Forman seemingly have jobs that are as isolated from performance evaluations as Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn. They were able to replace the coach, but the coach they replaced was someone from outside the organization who they didn't trust in the first place. When personality conflicts arose, the people who won were the internal, organizational people. When that conflict arose, the person brought in from the outside was replaced...with a former player for the team who has a good working relationship with the team. Sounds like they're both run quite similarly to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) All of the baseball insiders were praising the moves of Rick Hahn this off season. Most of them said he was second in "winning" the off season. not one mention about how KW did this off season. So, I guess only radio show hosts and posters here know the inside information. you make a good point, the baseball insiders said all this while it happen until spring training. i guess, some of us, are very pessimistic and we saw how it stop. in addition we as fans had to see the yrs of futility coming from the sox org. so as the only point i can say, for me, i was not sold on it being finished. unlike many others including the so called insiders. if they were really the insiders, then they of all people should have known this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) I find it difficult to say the Bulls are run differently. John Paxson and Gar Forman seemingly have jobs that are as isolated from performance evaluations as Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn. They were able to replace the coach, but the coach they replaced was someone from outside the organization who they didn't trust in the first place. When personality conflicts arose, the people who won were the internal, organizational people. When that conflict arose, the person brought in from the outside was replaced...with a former player for the team who has a good working relationship with the team. Sounds like they're both run quite similarly to me. you make a really good point. however, pax was running the show, alone until it got a little screwed up, then gar came in and helped. while at that, both of them helped draft players, players who can be develop. again the head of the org is run differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 04:20 PM) you make a good point, the baseball insiders said all this while it happen until spring training. i guess, some of us, are very pessimistic and we saw how it stop. in addition we as fans had to see the yrs of futility coming from the sox org. so as the only point i can say, for me, i was not sold on it being finished. unlike many others including the so called insiders. if they were really the insiders, then they of all people should have known this. Unless it isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:24 PM) Unless it isn't true. excuse me, but what isn't true, the rebuild stopping or the insiders story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) Everyone seems to know but you. The media insiders know it and this is the writer who finally says it. I think even Kenny as GM had little control when it came to firings. I have no doubt Kenny would have fired Ozzie but JR got in the way and none of that nonsense would have happened. the story is out there that Jerry stopped Kenny from firing both Ozzie and Greg Walker at various points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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