Spiegel's Daily Herald Column

[southsider2k5]

But why are the Bulls run differently???

 

They aren't. Thibs wasn't loyal.

[LDF]

They aren't. Thibs wasn't loyal.

 

would you really say he wasn't loyal or that he didn't listen to anyone and ran the bull as a coach should, without interference from upper management.

 

now i am not disputing his way of coaching or the result of his style of coaching.

[caulfield12]

I find it difficult to say the Bulls are run differently. John Paxson and Gar Forman seemingly have jobs that are as isolated from performance evaluations as Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn. They were able to replace the coach, but the coach they replaced was someone from outside the organization who they didn't trust in the first place. When personality conflicts arose, the people who won were the internal, organizational people. When that conflict arose, the person brought in from the outside was replaced...with a former player for the team who has a good working relationship with the team. Sounds like they're both run quite similarly to me.

 

Yes, but it's also not possible to imagine the White Sox offering a top 3-5 in the game salary to a hot/inexperienced managerial candidate.

 

When is the last time a White Sox manager was even paid in the Top 10-15 in the majors?

 

We were, on the other hand, willing to pay Hahn the highest assistant GM salary, Cooper the highest pitching coach salary, etc.

 

Seems we kind of have things backwards...creating too many cooks and not enough chefs, with KW and Hahn both in ambiguous situations, and Cooper feeling he has more power and protection than any pitching coach in the game. From listening to his interviews and the mentality in which he addresses the fans, sometimes you have to wonder if they created a monster in the process of being so loyal for all those 27 or 28 years.

[Balta1701]

Yes, but it's also not possible to imagine the White Sox offering a top 3-5 in the game salary to a hot/inexperienced managerial candidate.

 

When is the last time a White Sox manager was even paid in the Top 10-15 in the majors?

 

We were, on the other hand, willing to pay Hahn the highest assistant GM salary, Cooper the highest pitching coach salary, etc.

 

Seems we kind of have things backwards...creating too many cooks and not enough chefs, with KW and Hahn both in ambiguous situations, and Cooper feeling he has more power and protection than any pitching coach in the game. From listening to his interviews and the mentality in which he addresses the fans, sometimes you have to wonder if they created a monster in the process of being so loyal for all those 27 or 28 years.

I don't think we have a clue what the salaries are of the white sox managers and I don't believe they're required to disclose them.

[SCCWS]

 

 

So Thibs was really a Jerry hire despite what Paxson and Forman wanted. Is Robin considered a Jerry hire despite what KW and Hahn wanted?? It does not seem that RV is being undermined the way Thibs was. But then again, as some pointed out, RV is an insider and Thibs was not.

[ptatc]

excuse me, but what isn't true,

 

the rebuild stopping or the insiders story.

The insiders story. different "insiders" seem to have conflicting "who is at fault KW or RH."

[ptatc]

would you really say he wasn't loyal or that he didn't listen to anyone and ran the bull as a coach should, without interference from upper management.

 

now i am not disputing his way of coaching or the result of his style of coaching.

I would say he wouldn't listen to any advice by upper management or training staff. The coach and management should at least be on the same page on how to run a team. They don't need to completely agree but should have the same philosophy. If not, one needs to go, usually it's the coach. This isn't saying one is right or wrong just that they cannot be that different and co-exist.

[LDF]

I would say he wouldn't listen to any advice by upper management or training staff. The coach and management should at least be on the same page on how to run a team. They don't need to completely agree but should have the same philosophy. If not, one needs to go, usually it's the coach. This isn't saying one is right or wrong just that they cannot be that different and co-exist.

 

and that was the final results. i think i am, or would by like thibs. i run the team, you hired me to run the team.

 

but isn't that kind of frown on, upper management trying to coach the team??

[LDF]

The insiders story. different "insiders" seem to have conflicting "who is at fault KW or RH."

 

excellent point....

 

jokingly i would say, it makes good news.

[Jake]

Firing Kenny Williams wouldn't do anything positive and it would probably hurt. If you're going to fire front office people, you've got to clean house.

[Balta1701]

Firing Kenny Williams wouldn't do anything positive and it would probably hurt. If you're going to fire front office people, you've got to clean house.

How?

 

How exactly do you make things worse? If Angels don't come back we will have worst winning %age in the AL after tonight.

 

How do you make things worse than "worst team in the league"? I guess we could have a squirrel jump onto Sale in the dugout but I don't think the team Pres going would cause that.

[southsideirish71]

Well this makes me just want to plunk down money to watch this or any team.

 

“I’m not going to lie, I’ve had drinks before and during a game. I’ve played games drunk….but sometimes you’re in the 15th inning in a game, and you’re six hours in and one of the starting pitchers is 12 beers in and you’re like ‘man, I’m really jealous of this guy over here.’ And the next thing you know they’re like ‘alright, rally beers!’ And the pitchers come out with the beers and you’re like ‘oh, I got to have it. I don’t want to waste it.’ And it works sometimes. Then you strike out, and you’re like ‘man, I shouldn’t of had that beer.’”

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...ank-beers-games

Edited June 20, 2015 by southsideirish71

[GreenSox]

Is that southside newspaper still in business? The one Cowley worked for. Is Cowley still around?

 

[caulfield12]

Is that southside newspaper still in business? The one Cowley worked for. Is Cowley still around?

 

Daily Southtown

[ptatc]

How?

 

How exactly do you make things worse? If Angels don't come back we will have worst winning %age in the AL after tonight.

 

How do you make things worse than "worst team in the league"? I guess we could have a squirrel jump onto Sale in the dugout but I don't think the team Pres going would cause that.

If you think hahn is struggling to do a good job, and it sounds like you do, it would be even harder if he had more responsibility placed upon him without KW to help. It may not be directly on the field tomorrow but it would show up moving forward.

[ptatc]

Well this makes me just want to plunk down money to watch this or any team.

 

 

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...ank-beers-games

Typical AJ. Don't let him make you think that most ballplayers are like that. There are some but not that many. Starting pitchers on off days, yes. Position players and bullpen, no.

[LDF]

If you think hahn is struggling to do a good job, and it sounds like you do, it would be even harder if he had more responsibility placed upon him without KW to help. It may not be directly on the field tomorrow but it would show up moving forward.

 

ok i see your point, but it still do not excuse KW failure of the past, excluding the WS win, the state of the system, esp in the minor league can be trace directly back to KW.

[GreatScott82]

It really grinds my gears how much credit McDonough gets for the Hawks run of success.

He brought in the Bowmans. That right there is enough in my mind. He also brought the winter classic to Chicago to better sell the Blackhawk brand at s time when they still were growing. McDonough is the perfect type of President, "hands off". He lets Stan do his job while he focuses on other avenues of the organization. Do you think KW is hands off as the White Sox president? I'm sure Hahn would love it that way, but No way!

[Y2Jimmy0]

ok i see your point, but it still do not excuse KW failure of the past, excluding the WS win, the state of the system, esp in the minor league can be trace directly back to KW.

 

 

Lots of the bad drafting is also on Jerry Reinsdorf too though. Kenny likes tools, athletic types. JR didn't like draft spending though. That's how you end up with the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walkers of the world. Jerry would much rather pay guys like Juan Pierre $5 million than put that cash into the draft. That has changed since the slotting system but it shouldn't have taken that for you to draft well.

[ptatc]

Lots of the bad drafting is also on Jerry Reinsdorf too though. Kenny likes tools, athletic types. JR didn't like draft spending though. That's how you end up with the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walkers of the world. Jerry would much rather pay guys like Juan Pierre $5 million than put that cash into the draft. That has changed since the slotting system but it shouldn't have taken that for you to draft well.

This is not true. KW drafted safe players such as Broadway and McCullough and people on this board comolained and wanted him to draft the high risk but high reward players to try to get a superstar. His draft phiosophy changed a d now people complain about it. The bottom line is that its just bad drafting with the wrong platers regardless of philosophy.

[ptatc]

Lots of the bad drafting is also on Jerry Reinsdorf too though. Kenny likes tools, athletic types. JR didn't like draft spending though. That's how you end up with the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walkers of the world. Jerry would much rather pay guys like Juan Pierre $5 million than put that cash into the draft. That has changed since the slotting system but it shouldn't have taken that for you to draft well.

This is not true. KW drafted safe players such as Broadway and McCullough and people on this board comolained and wanted him to draft the high risk but high reward players to try to get a superstar. His draft phiosophy changed a d now people complain about it. The bottom line is that its just bad drafting with the wrong platers regardless of philosophy.

 

Edit: sorry for the double post.

Edited June 20, 2015 by ptatc

[Balta1701]

This is not true. KW drafted safe players such as Broadway and McCullough and people on this board comolained and wanted him to draft the high risk but high reward players to try to get a superstar. His draft phiosophy changed a d now people complain about it. The bottom line is that its just bad drafting with the wrong platers regardless of philosophy.

 

Edit: sorry for the double post.

And then the White Sox stopped drafting the safe looking pitcher and went with this left hander who threw 99 with a crazy motion who dropped to them in part because of injury concerns, in part because of signability, gave him an option to get to their slot, and then he did whatever the **** that was last night that I still can't figure out.

 

They actually fixed their pitching drafting philosophy.

[LDF]

Lots of the bad drafting is also on Jerry Reinsdorf too though. Kenny likes tools, athletic types. JR didn't like draft spending though. That's how you end up with the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walkers of the world. Jerry would much rather pay guys like Juan Pierre $5 million than put that cash into the draft. That has changed since the slotting system but it shouldn't have taken that for you to draft well.

 

you make a good point. by default if falls to the owners.

 

so now, it has comes to a head. nasty minor league teams with no help to help the parent team and the financial cost of baseball has gone so high, team needs to have the farm systems that develops viable prospects.

[Balta1701]

Lots of the bad drafting is also on Jerry Reinsdorf too though. Kenny likes tools, athletic types. JR didn't like draft spending though. That's how you end up with the Jared Mitchell's and Keenyn Walkers of the world. Jerry would much rather pay guys like Juan Pierre $5 million than put that cash into the draft. That has changed since the slotting system but it shouldn't have taken that for you to draft well.

Jared Mitchell and Keenyn Walker, FWIW, both made general sense at the time they were drafted. Walker was a sandwich pick, not a first rounder - he's the talent level that is fair to expect in return if we just get a comp pick for Samardzija. Sometimes those guys turn out, sometimes they don't. Mitchell was on a better track and then destroyed his leg, that's one that might look a lot different if not for an injury. The biggest problem with both of those picks by far is the other OF on the board that the Sox joined 20+ other teams in passing when they drafted Mitchell and what happened with him afterwards.

 

Neither one of them was a severe overdraft nor were they really "underslot" guys. They were picked in about the spot they should have been and they we paid appropriately. The problem with them is, if anything, the scouting failures that led to them being the selections, not the "draft spending" issue.

[spiderman]

This is good stuff today.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2015061...orts/150618856/

 

Is this something new? Don't we hear this all the time? Copy what the champion has done if you want to have long-term success or turn things around?

 

In this case, the only difference is copying from another local team, unrelated to baseball, but, this came up when the Bears fired their coach/GM as well.