Rick Hahn is the last person you should blame

[flavum]

Which goes back to the inability of this organization to develop anyone on the offensive side.

 

That's where I hope Reinsdorf sees the light finally, and allows some major changes with scouting and instruction.

[flavum]

I understand but don't demote for the thing you knew he was bad at from the beginning. Why even start him with the MLB team to begin with? He was hitting .270 and getting on base more than most on the team from the 9 spot.

 

They tried to get away with him batting 9th, thinking the other guys with track records would do their thing. Once it became clear that they needed to win games more with pitching and defense, they had to try Sanchez.

[Vance Law]

I loved the Bonifacio signing. Ideally, he would have 125+ games under his belt by the end of the year because he'd be the primary backup 2B/SS/3B/LF/CF/RF. Instead, we screwed things up by signing Beckham and basically eliminating Bonifacio's role.

 

Is this for real? If he was a better option than Beckham, or Shuck, or Sanchez, or Gillaspie he would be playing more.

[Vance Law]

Did the front office really think Conor and Beckham would be a good platoon?

 

For all intents and purposes it should have been/ could possibly still be pretty medium. Gillaspie as of now has about a .755 career OPS against righties, Beckham.670 against lefties for something like a .727 combined. The American league average is .733.

[caulfield12]

For all intents and purposes it should have been/ could possibly still be pretty medium. Gillaspie as of now has about a .755 career OPS against righties, Beckham.670 against lefties for something like a .727 combined. The American league average is .733.

 

The problem is Beckham had been hitting righties much better than lefties.

 

380 ops vs. lefties, 726 against righties.

 

That kind of blows up the whole concept...then you add Gillaspie's defense and you're in the bottom quartile at that position...not unlike 2012, when it killed us.

 

[GreenSox]

The Shark trade was not bad, the Sox got a legit #2 for a few fringe prospects. Actually it was a very good trade.

We got a 2/3 for one year.

2 of the 4 fringe prospects would be the 3rd and 4th best hitters on this team.

[Vance Law]

The problem is Beckham had been hitting righties much better than lefties.

 

380 ops vs. lefties, 726 against righties.

 

That kind of blows up the whole concept...then you add Gillaspie's defense and you're in the bottom quartile at that position...not unlike 2012, when it killed us.

 

And last year he hit lefties much better than righties. They've been bad overall. Gillaspie's foot problem I'm sure doesn't help. But they're not even in the conversation with LF, 2B and C for biggest problem on the team.

[SCCWS]

At the time Sanchez was raking in AAA. It wasn't a bad move considering how bad Johnson was defensively. He was terrible.

 

He was more shoveling. His last 3 weeks in AAA he was struggling.

[caulfield12]

“Sale did exactly what you want an ace to do in a situation like this,” Robertson said. “I went out there and stunk it up and gave it up tonight. It was a poor performance on me. I should have been there to pick the team up. We needed this one really bad. This one hurt.”

 

At least Robertson took his share of the blame.

 

Csnchicago.com

[Y2Jimmy0]

We got a 2/3 for one year.

2 of the 4 fringe prospects would be the 3rd and 4th best hitters on this team.

 

 

But they'd be much worse defensively than the guys currently in those spots. I think the Sox can get something better than Semien in July. IF not, that comp pick is very valuable.

[SCCWS]

But they'd be much worse defensively than the guys currently in those spots. I think the Sox can get something better than Semien in July. IF not, that comp pick is very valuable.

 

 

What am I missing??? Phegley would be better defensively than Soto and is hitting 75 points higher. If they kept Semien he would be playing 2nd over the Micah experiment. We don't know how he would do there defensively. Regardless I understand the rationale behind the trade. It just backfired unless Shark negates some of it based on what they get for him.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

What am I missing??? Phegley would be better defensively than Soto and is hitting 75 points higher. If they kept Semien he would be playing 2nd over the Micah experiment. We don't know how he would do there defensively. Regardless I understand the rationale behind the trade. It just backfired unless Shark negates some of it based on what they get for him.

 

 

They didn't like the way Phegley called games. Phegley was done with the White Sox. Semien is just a guy. His defense will always drag down his good hitting.

[GreenSox]

But they'd be much worse defensively than the guys currently in those spots. I think the Sox can get something better than Semien in July. IF not, that comp pick is very valuable.

The comp pick is not that valuable. These bogus "competitive balance picks" are used as trade throw ins all the time and they are just a few spots below. (or course the Sox never get those in trades).

Meanwhile Phegley has an OPS in excess of .800. The Sox haven't produced a hitter like that since, when?

And if they aren't up to our high defensive standards (and I'm not convinced that Phegley is as bad as this org. claimed, esp. compared to Flowers et al), then trade them, but for something of real value.

 

The front office has done a poor job.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The comp pick is not that valuable. These bogus "competitive balance picks" are used as trade throw ins all the time and they are just a few spots below. (or course the Sox never get those in trades).

Meanwhile Phegley has an OPS in excess of .800. The Sox haven't produced a hitter like that since, when?

And if they aren't up to our high defensive standards (and I'm not convinced that Phegley is as bad as this org. claimed, esp. compared to Flowers et al), then trade them, but for something of real value.

 

The front office has done a poor job.

 

 

The comp pick is actually real valuable. It allows you a ton of draft flexibility in this new system.

[dpd9189]

I like Hahn and I think he knows what has to be done but the question is will the Sox let him do it. The Sox have always been very stubborn when it comes to the "R" word but what they've been doing is clearly not working. I said it this past week but this team needs to follow the Northsiders' lead and do a full scale rebuild. It won't be pretty but if you look at the Cubs now they're a team on the rise with bright future and money to spend. If the Sox start this asap they can maybe be competitive again before Sale hits Free Agency in 2020. They have some nice young arms to build around in Sale, Q, Rodon and Fulmer but they have nothing aside from Abreu as far as position players go and that needs to change.

[flavum]

I like Hahn and I think he knows what has to be done but the question is will the Sox let him do it. The Sox have always been very stubborn when it comes to the "R" word but what they've been doing is clearly not working. I said it this past week but this team needs to follow the Northsiders' lead and do a full scale rebuild. It won't be pretty but if you look at the Cubs now they're a team on the rise with bright future and money to spend. If the Sox start this asap they can maybe be competitive again before Sale hits Free Agency in 2020. They have some nice young arms to build around in Sale, Q, Rodon and Fulmer but they have nothing aside from Abreu as far as position players go and that needs to change.

 

It's not so much "do what the Cubs did", but what's going on all over baseball.

 

If you're not producing your own major league talent, you're going to lose. It's that simple.

 

Teams need to have a balance of young position players and pitchers that come up and know how to play the game and then get better, and then add on when the time is right.

[Thad Bosley]

That's where I hope Reinsdorf sees the light finally, and allows some major changes with scouting and instruction.

The guy hasn't demonstrated the ability to "see the light" for 35 years. Do you really think that's going to change now?

[Balta1701]

The comp pick is actually real valuable. It allows you a ton of draft flexibility in this new system.

I liken it to a cute toy. I went back 5 years to look at previous comp rounds to see what people got out of them. From the comp round 5 years ago, only a handful of players have made the big leagues at all and the total bWAR out of that comp round is negative. If you go back 6 or more years you find that about 50% of the players taken in the comp round make the big leagues and usually out of 20-30 picks you find 2 really solid, all star caliber players.

 

Even given the salary flexibility...I would much, much rather have a single player who is performing at AAA than a comp pick. Far higher chances of them becoming a useful big leaguer overall and you don't have to wait 5+ years for them to arrive at the big league roster.

 

"Comp pick in 2016 = 2020/2021 arrival for a normal team and 2022/2023 contributor, with a 50% chance they never make it to the bigs at all and an 80-90% chance of not being a contributor"

[Balta1701]

I like Hahn and I think he knows what has to be done but the question is will the Sox let him do it. The Sox have always been very stubborn when it comes to the "R" word but what they've been doing is clearly not working. I said it this past week but this team needs to follow the Northsiders' lead and do a full scale rebuild. It won't be pretty but if you look at the Cubs now they're a team on the rise with bright future and money to spend. If the Sox start this asap they can maybe be competitive again before Sale hits Free Agency in 2020. They have some nice young arms to build around in Sale, Q, Rodon and Fulmer but they have nothing aside from Abreu as far as position players go and that needs to change.

Do you really think Rick Hahn came in and said that spending $50 million+ per year over the next 2 years in order to win right now was a bad move and the White Sox told him "no you must"?

[Balta1701]

They didn't like the way Phegley called games. Phegley was done with the White Sox. Semien is just a guy. His defense will always drag down his good hitting.

Which is, to note, another indictment of the White Sox coaching and development. Other teams are ok with figuring out how to develop Phegley and Semien, we get them up quickly, decide we don't like them, declare them unteachable, and then move on.

[caulfield12]

Which is, to note, another indictment of the White Sox coaching and development. Other teams are ok with figuring out how to develop Phegley and Semien, we get them up quickly, decide we don't like them, declare them unteachable, and then move on.

 

We kind of did the same thing with Daniel Hudson...very short ropes.

 

Ryan Sweeney didn't get a very extended look and he was also more productive with other teams.

 

They didn't set the world on fire, but you also can't keep trading most of your young players and replacing them with expensive vets unless you're a true larget market team...and even at the $140-$180 million mark, there's nothing that convincing to make an assumption we'd be anything but a .500 team still.

 

If you added Russell Martin and Nelson Cruz instead of Cabrera, where would we be?

 

The Mariners tried to spend their way into competitiveness with Cano and Cruz and their future isn't much better than ours....it might even be worse with the Cano contract.

[Chicago White Sox]

Which is, to note, another indictment of the White Sox coaching and development. Other teams are ok with figuring out how to develop Phegley and Semien, we get them up quickly, decide we don't like them, declare them unteachable, and then move on.

I think we should all wait until the season is over before jumping to any conclusions on Semien & Phegley. Marcus' offensive numbers aren't nearly as impressive as they were earlier this year and I don't believe for a second Josh is a major league catcher if you factor in pitch-calling and other defensive elements that are hard to quantify.

[Balta1701]

If you added Russell Martin and Nelson Cruz instead of Cabrera, where would we be?

With a $140 million payroll this year and a mandate from ownership to cut spending, most likely.

[LDF]

I liken it to a cute toy. I went back 5 years to look at previous comp rounds to see what people got out of them. From the comp round 5 years ago, only a handful of players have made the big leagues at all and the total bWAR out of that comp round is negative. If you go back 6 or more years you find that about 50% of the players taken in the comp round make the big leagues and usually out of 20-30 picks you find 2 really solid, all star caliber players.

 

Even given the salary flexibility...I would much, much rather have a single player who is performing at AAA than a comp pick. Far higher chances of them becoming a useful big leaguer overall and you don't have to wait 5+ years for them to arrive at the big league roster.

 

"Comp pick in 2016 = 2020/2021 arrival for a normal team and 2022/2023 contributor, with a 50% chance they never make it to the bigs at all and an 80-90% chance of not being a contributor"

 

interesting point. i look at the comp as i look at the draft in recent yrs. the draft and players are a better, talented young players. i think the players are getting better.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I liken it to a cute toy. I went back 5 years to look at previous comp rounds to see what people got out of them. From the comp round 5 years ago, only a handful of players have made the big leagues at all and the total bWAR out of that comp round is negative. If you go back 6 or more years you find that about 50% of the players taken in the comp round make the big leagues and usually out of 20-30 picks you find 2 really solid, all star caliber players.

 

Even given the salary flexibility...I would much, much rather have a single player who is performing at AAA than a comp pick. Far higher chances of them becoming a useful big leaguer overall and you don't have to wait 5+ years for them to arrive at the big league roster.

 

"Comp pick in 2016 = 2020/2021 arrival for a normal team and 2022/2023 contributor, with a 50% chance they never make it to the bigs at all and an 80-90% chance of not being a contributor"

 

 

I'd rather have a big league starting position player for Shark too. The comp picks help though because you can expect more in the deal. Their return has to be better than the comp pick.