Well, it's that time of year again....2015 edition

[Boopa1219]

In other sports I'd say yes, in baseball, I disagree. The best organizations consistently win and find talent (both through FA and the Draft) and top draft position has the lowest correlation in baseball then any other sport. This isn't like the NBA where most of the superstars were top picks vs. MLB where lots of superstars aren't top picks. That said, if we are going to be bad and developing, I am okay getting top pick as long our young talent is improving, etc. I am not okay with guys just playing bad. It is more important for pieces to make progress and help us get wins and slowly get better. Baseball is not the sport you go from worst to first very often. Usually it takes time to build and get the pieces put together and ready.

 

I'm talking about bonus pools, the more money you have to spend, the more talent you can infuse in your system. I never said that the sox should tank to draft x player. I said that even if they finish with one of the worst records, there's a silver lining.

 

Read my post where I talk about what the Braves did. And what they can do with their pool space.

 

Thanks, I'm out.

[caulfield12]

4th pick, percentage points behind the Red Sox...

[caulfield12]

“We’ve faltered, that’s obvious,” Williams said. “And we’ve got our shortcomings. But it’s not with the coaching staff.

 

With regards to Robin, listen, you only have so much control as a manager on your overall team play. He will be the first to admit they haven’t played, they haven’t followed the direction as much as he would have liked. But what we have to look at in management, and it falls no further than my desk, what we have to look at is have we given him the right pieces?

 

“If they are underperforming to this degree as a whole, then I would have to say right now, and I’ve told the Chairman this, no, at the end of the day, it falls on my desk. I hired the manager. I hired the general manager."

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/if-whi...already-be-gone

 

 

“We’ve got to push,” Williams said. “We’re going to have to have a run, and the great thing is, you can imagine that because you run in Chris Sale and (Jeff) Samardzija and (Carlos) Rodon and (Jose) Quintana out there. You can imagine going on that kind of a run, and we do have the pieces. Certainly right now, if I’m being honest, I don’t see any indication of that.”

 

“I’ve addressed that with Jerry (Reinsdorf) directly, and his comment to me was, ‘Listen, I thought we were in a pretty darn good position when we left the winter meetings,’” Williams said. “We felt good where we are, but we felt good about where we are for 2015, ’16 and ’17. So we’re not going to abandon ship right now because of three months in what is a three-year plan.”

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/kenny-...ity-clings-hope

Edited June 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[BigHurt3515]

“We’ve faltered, that’s obvious,” Williams said. “And we’ve got our shortcomings. But it’s not with the coaching staff.

 

With regards to Robin, listen, you only have so much control as a manager on your overall team play. He will be the first to admit they haven’t played, they haven’t followed the direction as much as he would have liked. But what we have to look at in management, and it falls no further than my desk, what we have to look at is have we given him the right pieces?

 

“If they are underperforming to this degree as a whole, then I would have to say right now, and I’ve told the Chairman this, no, at the end of the day, it falls on my desk. I hired the manager. I hired the general manager."

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/if-whi...already-be-gone

 

 

“We’ve got to push,” Williams said. “We’re going to have to have a run, and the great thing is, you can imagine that because you run in Chris Sale and (Jeff) Samardzija and (Carlos) Rodon and (Jose) Quintana out there. You can imagine going on that kind of a run, and we do have the pieces. Certainly right now, if I’m being honest, I don’t see any indication of that.”

 

“I’ve addressed that with Jerry (Reinsdorf) directly, and his comment to me was, ‘Listen, I thought we were in a pretty darn good position when we left the winter meetings,’” Williams said. “We felt good where we are, but we felt good about where we are for 2015, ’16 and ’17. So we’re not going to abandon ship right now because of three months in what is a three-year plan.”

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/kenny-...ity-clings-hope

 

All I can think is: "whatever man"

 

I think its all talk right now. Williams and Hahn aren't going to fire themselves so how does this get fixed? we tried spending money on some ticket free agents and that hasn't worked. We have good pitching prospects but we can't develop a hitting prospect to save our lives (hopefully Anderson is an exception). What the hell can they do? Until the whole front office changes or we start to change our philosophies we will continue to play the way we do.

 

[kitekrazy]

I usually don't like to bring up other forums but read Mark Liptak's reply at WSI under Kenny Speaks (yet again...)

Great response.

[flavum]

4th pick.

 

Season over in 100 days.

[caulfield12]

“I signed off on all the free agent contracts and the trades and everything else. I happened to think that Rick (Hahn) put together a hell of a club. And a lot of other people thought the same thing." KW

 

This is the specific quote pissing a lot of people off...fwiw.

 

 

Read the Liptak comments...he didn't include the Samardzija deal as well, which is what really kicked off the whole "we will begin competing starting now" thing.

Edited June 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

“We’ve faltered, that’s obvious,” Williams said. “And we’ve got our shortcomings. But it’s not with the coaching staff.

 

“If they are underperforming to this degree as a whole, then I would have to say right now, and I’ve told the Chairman this, no, at the end of the day, it falls on my desk. I hired the manager. I hired the general manager."

 

i am a little confuse here. i know he is talking as the president of this org, that i obvious.

 

but in the bold. is he kinda of blaming the management???

 

if not, then why didn't he include the players in that triumvirate state of the rebuilding. better yet, this was the 3 headed monster of what the sox had this offseason. GM-Hahn, Manager-RV and newly signed fa's.

 

a little explanation is needed, thanks.

[caulfield12]

"[Ventura] understands the gig," Williams said. "His first year, he almost won manager of the year if it wasn't for two bad weeks at the end of the season. You don't go from that to what people are talking about now because you've gotten worse at your job. As a matter of fact, he's gotten exponentially better and more adept in a lot of situations."

 

"With regards to Robin, listen, you only have so much control as a manager on your overall team play," Williams said ahead of his team's game against the Tigers at Comerica Park. "He will be the first to admit they haven't played and they haven't followed the direction as much as he would have liked. But what we have to look at in management is, have we given him the right pieces?

 

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...ra-job-security

 

 

[flavum]

First off, Manager of the Year is a stupid award. For Kenny to even bring that up is ridiculous.

 

Dude needs to go. So does Buddy. So does the entire coaching staff.

[caulfield12]

KW should also remember who the Front Office Executive of the Year in 2005 was....not himself, but Mark Shapiro of the Indians.

 

Two teams (2012 Sox, 2005 indians) that both came up just short.

[greg775]

Sox are 12 games out in their own division and it's not even July. They should be too embarrassed to be saying anything to the press except a firesale is ON.

[kitekrazy]

Does this end the argument that Kenny still has a lot of control?

[LDF]

Does this end the argument that Kenny still has a lot of control?

 

whether he is or isn't i will keep that answer to myself.

 

however i still keep in the back of my thought processes the KW was the key architect or our great minor league system since 2000.

[kitekrazy]

whether he is or isn't i will keep that answer to myself.

 

however i still keep in the back of my thought processes the KW was the key architect or our great minor league system since 2000.

 

Players that fit the Kenny model are still around or developed or acquired makes me believe Kenny still calls the shots.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Have slipped down to the #5 pick now.

 

7 GB of the Phillies for #1.

[greg775]

Have slipped down to the #5 pick now.

 

7 GB of the Phillies for #1.

I normally get so mad at this thread, but this year I don't really care either way. It's because for the first time in many years I'm TOTALLY convinced we're the worst team in the Central. Our record against our division foes alone is a reason to fire Ventura and clean house. But I digress. I don't want us to lose every game; I want to win every game still, but I'm totally convinced this team blows so I don't mind this thread.

 

I love the new Balta BTW. I like his negative posts. It seems he's convinced the Sox suck. It's rare a mod has as forceful an opinion about the Sox s***tiness. Go Balta!

[caulfield12]

Last in the AL.

 

4th overall pick.

 

13 GB of the Royals, 8 GB for WC but might as well be 28 with how many teams they'd have to jump.

 

It will be hard to catch the Marlins with Stanton out for 4-6 weeks now, although Jose Fernandez is coming back soon as well.

 

 

 

(Note, all three teams behind/ahead of us have replaced their managers, fwiw.)

Edited June 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

Last in the AL.

 

4th overall pick.

 

13 GB of the Royals, 8 GB for WC but might as well be 28 with how many teams they'd have to jump.

 

It will be hard to catch the Marlins with Stanton out for 4-6 weeks now, although Jose Fernandez is coming back soon as well.

 

 

 

(Note, all three teams behind/ahead of us have replaced their managers, fwiw.)

On the trade people suck more train v2.0

TPSM!!! It lives again!!!!

[Quin]

Ugh I hate that this has to be a thing.

 

Can't they go on a stupid hot streak like the 2010 team?

[LittleHurt05]

Ugh I hate that this has to be a thing.

 

Can't they go on a stupid hot streak like the 2010 team?

 

Not with the new interleague schedule format

[caulfield12]

Ugh I hate that this has to be a thing.

 

Can't they go on a stupid hot streak like the 2010 team?

 

That would require beating up the Cubs (we went 13-2 against the NL in that streak, sweeping the Pirates/Nationals/Braves and losing 2 to the Northside)....a 2-0 start against Detroit...3-3 against Texas/KC in the middle...then sweeping the Angels and Royals 7-0 and winning at Minny to end up)

 

26-5

 

With our pitching, certainly possible, but 5-26 is just as likely with our managerial and coaching malaise, defense, base running and bullpen.

 

 

Of course, the next problem is all the wasted money/resources (Manny Ramirez!) and the fact that this stretch led to the doubling down with the Adam Dunn acquisition before 2011 and the fact rebuilding/retooling/restocking with younger players was delayed another three seasons by this and the 2012 "false positive."

 

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Ugh I hate that this has to be a thing.

 

Can't they go on a stupid hot streak like the 2010 team?

 

Me too sort of. I will always believe a team that can reverse their bad season and end up well meaning the players they already have improve is worth much more than some hit or miss prospects which the Sox have proved they can't handle (position players). Their players would be worth more in trades upon improvement than the draft position is worth. Of course they have proved worthless in acquiring new players too so its altogether disheartening on so many levels.

[caulfield12]

Me too sort of. I will always believe a team that can reverse their bad season and end up well meaning the players they already have improve is worth much more than some hit or miss prospects which the Sox have proved they can't handle (position players). Their players would be worth more in trades upon improvement than the draft position is worth. Of course they have proved worthless in acquiring new players too so its altogether disheartening on so many levels.

 

 

The problem is that Ramirez and Samardzija are the only pieces likely to go somewhere...unless you believe they'll try to cut bait on Robertson and LaRoche as well.

 

(And even here, we could make good arguments for keeping Ramirez with his value so low and no replacement for 2016.)

 

We're pretty much stuck with Cabrera, Eaton (and he's been much better), Avi, Danks, etc.

 

Finally, all the remaining position players like Gillaspie, Beckham, Sanchez, Flowers, Bonifacio and Soto have pretty limited trade value.

 

We're kind of stuck in a "treading water" situation where the best we can hope for is that Avi and Rodon both continue to improve and someone like Crain, Nate Jones, E. Johnson, Beck, Montas or Danish can look like a piece for 2016 and beyond. Or that Micah Johnson or Sanchez can be relied upon for 2B/SS (either/or) beginning in April next year.

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

i am posting this from another thread that was closed.

 

Uhh, didn't Jeff have like 90 pitches going into the 8th? Why would the pen be up in the 6th or even the 7th.

 

Admittedly I missed the 5th 6th and 7th, was he starting to get roughed up before the 8th or something?

 

 

Edit looking at the play by play... He gave up 2 hits in 7 innings and was under 100 pitches going into the 8th. Why on earth are you complaining about the bullpen nit being up in the 6th or 7th. Thats just beyond silly.

 

and it was silly to have lost the game that way.

 

he should have gotten the pen up and warming up, who cares what the pitch count was, sometimes the pitcher needed to come out and a rp in sooner.

 

the object is to win the game.

 

thinking otherwise is silly.