Addison Reed/Davidson trade

[LittleHurt05]

The logic behind the move will always be sound but for whatever reason it didn't/probably won't work out.*

 

*Copy and paste this sentence to apply it to the Rick Hahn transaction of your choosing.

 

Ha, I see what you did there, well done.

[bmags]

This was a bad trade. Sox have no room for error and they screwed up one of their few young attractive assets for a bad player.

[Chisoxfn]

Maybe that money is being spent on Bonafacio. The problem with the trade is whether anyone really wants to admit it or not, Reed was a definite asset on a rebuilding team. The asset was traded away for a strikeout machine, which the White Sox apparently are attracted to in their system, who has little chance to ever help the team. If you trade Reed fine. But it isn't about well, Reed ultimately failed so getting a guy that failed is great. Whoever is responsible for scouting Davidson blew it. If you make a trade for a team's #1 ranked prospect, but could have had their #10 ranked prospect, and the #10 ranked prospect turns out to be a better player. You blew it. When Hahn or KW are making trades, it doesn't matter what the BA ranking is. It doesn't matter what the mlb.com ranking is, or what BP or Fangraphs thinks, it's ultimately what the White Sox think. And what they thought of Matt Davidson was wrong.

Right on the money. Sox clearly missed the mark on Davidson. They thought he was MLB ready and it was pretty evident that he wasn't (in fact, he's still waiting for that shot with the Sox). He's putting in the work this year but still has major flaws in his game and I find it puzzling that these flaws weren't noticeable. That or we made some changes to him that really set him back (which could go to the point you had mentioned about is it our guys not being able to get through on what to teach or is it our scouting people missing the boat on guys who are coachable or who have the ultimate tools to succeed). Very hard to rebuild a guys swing.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

You will suck after a couple years of greatness unless your name is Rivera.

 

Rivera's longevity and dominance were very intriguing to me. Almost otherworldly... I suppose it's not without precedence though, as a pair of his teammates also appear to have had the upper hand on Father Time. It was probably just something in the water.

 

[greg775]

Davidson hasn't panned out but that trade you do 100/100.

 

i hate posts like that because it's not true. The trade sucks because Davidson sucks. At some point the evaluation has to be correct on a player you acquire before you say you'd do that trade 100 of 100 times. They shouldn't have done the trade period. Davidson sucks.

 

IMO it's because they try to throw too hard too often. Since they are out there for a short period of time, they throw as hard as they can. It's effective in the short term but adversely effects them in the long term.

I think you are right. I was hearing Wade Davis say as a reliever you let it all loose cause you don't need to save anything. You are in one inning and that's it, maybe 2 on a rare occasion.

[southsider2k5]

i hate posts like that because it's not true. The trade sucks because Davidson sucks. At some point the evaluation has to be correct on a player you acquire before you say you'd do that trade 100 of 100 times. They shouldn't have done the trade period. Davidson sucks.

 

 

I think you are right. I was hearing Wade Davis say as a reliever you let it all loose cause you don't need to save anything. You are in one inning and that's it, maybe 2 on a rare occasion.

 

Yet the player we traded sucks, so...

[Dick Allen]

Yet the player we traded sucks, so...

If anything they could have received for Reed would have sucked and never made the majors, you would have a point. But a team with few assets trading one for a bust is a blown trade. Davidson has gone from a guy many were wondering if he would be called up after his super 2 status expired to a guy who it will take a disaster for him to be called up.

[chitownsportsfan]

i hate posts like that because it's not true. The trade sucks because Davidson sucks. At some point the evaluation has to be correct on a player you acquire before you say you'd do that trade 100 of 100 times. They shouldn't have done the trade period. Davidson sucks.

 

 

I think you are right. I was hearing Wade Davis say as a reliever you let it all loose cause you don't need to save anything. You are in one inning and that's it, maybe 2 on a rare occasion.

 

nobody has a crystal ball the key is to play the odds. The odds on Davidson were better than Reed.

[southsider2k5]

If anything they could have received for Reed would have sucked and never made the majors, you would have a point. But a team with few assets trading one for a bust is a blown trade. Davidson has gone from a guy many were wondering if he would be called up after his super 2 status expired to a guy who it will take a disaster for him to be called up.

So what were the offers for Reed?

[Dick Allen]

So what were the offers for Reed?

I have no idea, but neither do you and you are assuming Davidson was the best offer for him. If that was the case, and the White Sox knew what Matt Davidson would be, I am guessing they don't make that trade. At one point teams were saying he was not available, so as crazy as it seems, I think they could have received a player who would contribute at the major league level for his services.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

If you don't know what is being offered, you don't have a point.

Dick's entire premise is the Sox made a trade for a guy that thought was a bonafide starting 3B and he hasn't yet played a game at the big league level. That is awful scouting. None of us know what else was offered but clearly other offers would have been their for read. The Sox scouting department missed the boat on Davidson.

 

No one is saying scouts are going to be right 100% of the time but we didn't get what you got. If the question was, do you trade a reliever for a cost controlled 3B men that starts and is an average to above average starter...answer is probably yes. However, that depends on scouting and the reality is the trade is a failure if you look at it from the perspective we traded a piece who had value (at that time) and got a player incapable of starting. Similarly, the Dbacks could also look at the deal and say they could have scouted read better and got someone better. The Dbacks could also be looking at it going, man, we were right as to why we were willing to trade Davidson (saw that hole and knew he wouldn't overcome it).

 

What we do know is Sox whiffed badly on Davidson.

[southsider2k5]

Dick's entire premise is the Sox made a trade for a guy that thought was a bonafide starting 3B and he hasn't yet played a game at the big league level. That is awful scouting. None of us know what else was offered but clearly other offers would have been their for read. The Sox scouting department missed the boat on Davidson.

 

No one is saying scouts are going to be right 100% of the time but we didn't get what you got. If the question was, do you trade a reliever for a cost controlled 3B men that starts and is an average to above average starter...answer is probably yes. However, that depends on scouting and the reality is the trade is a failure if you look at it from the perspective we traded a piece who had value (at that time) and got a player incapable of starting. Similarly, the Dbacks could also look at the deal and say they could have scouted read better and got someone better. The Dbacks could also be looking at it going, man, we were right as to why we were willing to trade Davidson (saw that hole and knew he wouldn't overcome it).

 

What we do know is Sox whiffed badly on Davidson.

 

Which is exactly what this trade was about. Davidson ended up busting, no joke. That doesn't mean you don't make the same type of trade in the future, especially in an organization which can churn out pitching.

[fathom]

It's crazy how both the Santos and Reed trades worked out. The Sox sold at the perfect time on both of the guys, with both of them turning into bad pitchers. It's just too bad the scouting part of the return in the trade failed. Molina was simply a terrible idea by the organization, as not many people even viewed him as a starter when he was acquired. Not only that, but most teams didn't know Santos was available, and judging by other closers that were traded that offseason, it seems a higher return was very possible. As far as Davidson goes, I think it was a good risk, but unfortunately it appears something happened between 2013 and 2014 and Davidson hasn't been able to recover. I do think they should give him a shot after they sell away players next month, as it wouldn't hurt to see if something can click at the big league level. There's not a lot of use in having him repeat AAA for a 3rd season next year.

[OmarComing25]

Davidson has an .800 OPS against LHP (still a crappy average and high strikeout rate though), is there a chance he could be part of a platoon? Beckham was supposed to be that except he's been brutal against LHP this year. It'd be hard to do worse than our current 3B duo against lefties, right?

Edited June 23, 2015 by OmarComing25

[Dick Allen]

It's crazy how both the Santos and Reed trades worked out. The Sox sold at the perfect time on both of the guys, with both of them turning into bad pitchers. It's just too bad the scouting part of the return in the trade failed. Molina was simply a terrible idea by the organization, as not many people even viewed him as a starter when he was acquired. Not only that, but most teams didn't know Santos was available, and judging by other closers that were traded that offseason, it seems a higher return was very possible. As far as Davidson goes, I think it was a good risk, but unfortunately it appears something happened between 2013 and 2014 and Davidson hasn't been able to recover. I do think they should give him a shot after they sell away players next month, as it wouldn't hurt to see if something can click at the big league level. There's not a lot of use in having him repeat AAA for a 3rd season next year.

Wasn't Paddy influential with the Santos trade? Molina had awesome numbers but he was ranked fairly down the Blue Jays prospect list. IIRC during the teleconference discussing the trade, KW was under the impression he was playing in the Winter League, which he was not, and he was using his numbers from a year earlier when he was. The trades turn out to be nothing for nothing but the point I was making was that doesn't mean no harm no foul. When you don't have a ton of assets, you need to get something when you are giving them up.

[shysocks]

Dick's entire premise is the Sox made a trade for a guy that thought was a bonafide starting 3B and he hasn't yet played a game at the big league level. That is awful scouting. None of us know what else was offered but clearly other offers would have been their for read. The Sox scouting department missed the boat on Davidson.

 

No one is saying scouts are going to be right 100% of the time but we didn't get what you got. If the question was, do you trade a reliever for a cost controlled 3B men that starts and is an average to above average starter...answer is probably yes. However, that depends on scouting and the reality is the trade is a failure if you look at it from the perspective we traded a piece who had value (at that time) and got a player incapable of starting. Similarly, the Dbacks could also look at the deal and say they could have scouted read better and got someone better. The Dbacks could also be looking at it going, man, we were right as to why we were willing to trade Davidson (saw that hole and knew he wouldn't overcome it).

 

What we do know is Sox whiffed badly on Davidson.

Hey man, the logic behind the move will always be sound but for whatever reason it didn't/probably won't work out.^TM

[LDF]

It's crazy how both the Santos and Reed trades worked out. The Sox sold at the perfect time on both of the guys, with both of them turning into bad pitchers. It's just too bad the scouting part of the return in the trade failed. Molina was simply a terrible idea by the organization, as not many people even viewed him as a starter when he was acquired. Not only that, but most teams didn't know Santos was available, and judging by other closers that were traded that offseason, it seems a higher return was very possible. As far as Davidson goes, I think it was a good risk, but unfortunately it appears something happened between 2013 and 2014 and Davidson hasn't been able to recover. I do think they should give him a shot after they sell away players next month, as it wouldn't hurt to see if something can click at the big league level. There's not a lot of use in having him repeat AAA for a 3rd season next year.

 

i don't. we lost on that trade. plain and simple. we got nothing for a rtn of reed and 1 yr in the majors. the sox really could've used Reed last yr. in addition, i don't care if he was good for q yr.

 

just put it up as a bad trade.

[fathom]

Wasn't Paddy influential with the Santos trade? Molina had awesome numbers but he was ranked fairly down the Blue Jays prospect list. IIRC during the teleconference discussing the trade, KW was under the impression he was playing in the Winter League, which he was not, and he was using his numbers from a year earlier when he was. The trades turn out to be nothing for nothing but the point I was making was that doesn't mean no harm no foul. When you don't have a ton of assets, you need to get something when you are giving them up.

 

Of course it hurts, as it's a waste of resources the Sox had.

[whitesoxfan99]

i don't. we lost on that trade. plain and simple. we got nothing for a rtn of reed and 1 yr in the majors. the sox really could've used Reed last yr. in addition, i don't care if he was good for q yr.

 

just put it up as a bad trade.

 

Reed isn't good and the Sox still would have sucked with him last year.

[Chisoxfn]

Which is exactly what this trade was about. Davidson ended up busting, no joke. That doesn't mean you don't make the same type of trade in the future, especially in an organization which can churn out pitching.

No one is talking about the logic here. We are talking about piss poor scouting by the Sox. Case closed and it is a consistent trend (both in terms of acquired position players and drafted position players).

[fathom]

Hey man, the logic behind the move will always be sound but for whatever reason it didn't/probably won't work out.^TM

 

Davidson yes, Molina absolutely no

[LDF]

Reed isn't good and the Sox still would have sucked with him last year.

 

last yr, there is no helping the situation. and that was not the question to what i responded too. lets keep on track.

[LDF]

The logic of selling high on a reliever with inflated value and a straight fastball = good. The logic of trading for a league average hitter in the PCL and expecting him to become a middle of the order type is no good.

 

b/c of that, i now look on the PCL in another light.

[southsider2k5]

No one is talking about the logic here. We are talking about piss poor scouting by the Sox. Case closed and it is a consistent trend (both in terms of acquired position players and drafted position players).

 

It is problem with drafted players, but we do much better in acquisitions.

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

It is problem with drafted players, but we do much better in acquisitions.

What acquired position players? Adam Dunn / Melky (current production) / LaRoche / Avisail (I'd argue he has not performed up to expectations, given you have to factor in his defense). Eaton deal would be an outlier as that was positive. I have 100% confident in our ability to scout pitching. I have very little confidence in our ability to scout position players (although maybe I'm not giving them enough credit for the Cuban factor where we did hit on Alexei and Abreu).