Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Maybe your opinion, mine, he's done stupid things, but this takes the cake. He blows this win, the whole season is in jeapordy. When are players accountable I don't give a crap who in the hell you put in with a 6 run lead, there's no way the guy should make it as close as it was. I think he left him in there too long; but that's not what anyone is arguing about Putting him in to begin with isn't a problem. You will never know what you have unless he's used. Plus, it saves ur other more valuable arms for the next two games and so on. JM has done some stupid things, but to say it's the stupidest thing you've ever seen, supposedly watching all these games u claim...i mean come on already. This is Jose Paniagua, a guy who was released by DETROIT, and cut by TAMPA in spring training. He sucked in the Mexican League, his era over 9.00, he wasn't very good at Charlotte, he has no business being in the major leagues, let alone a first place ballclub. If Minnesota were to score 6 runs, I believe the best chance they had would be against this bum. Wunsch was ready, Schoenweiss could have remained in. A game against Minnesota is not the time to see what he could do. Why didn't he use him when the Sox were up by 5 in the 9th against Cleveland? He decided to use Gordon for the 4th straight game. What arms did he save? He had to use his closer, what an idiot. Well then why is he on the roster? You could be blaming the wrong person here Well, if you go back to the threads where the Sox were thinking of signing him, and the one where they signed him, you will see I was against the move for 2 reasons. One was he sucked. People argued that the same was said about Loaisa, but I pointed out Loiasa had to make the team with a great spring. The second reason was there was not enough time to evaluate him. What did he make,3 appearances in Charlotte? He got killed in one of them. This man has given no indication he can get out major league hitters in a couple years. To experiment with quite possible the entire season on the line is insane. After the first two guys hit rockets, how can you possibly leave him in long enough to walk 2 more people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 You speak the whole truth, Dick Allen. You got Schoeneweis in the game. He can EASILY get the ninth inning. You got a Twins lineup that is set up lefty right lefy righty. He's either going to face some lefties or make the Twinkies empty the bench. You got Wunsch in reserve. There is no freakin way you toss Paniague in a game like that. If Cooper has any clue, he's seen the guy throw on the side and knows he's tossing meatballs like the ones he threw in the game. If you're down 6, i got no problem with it. But to run the risk of blowing the game and all your momentum was simply flat-out idiotic. The combination of Manuel making the decisions and a handful of un-useable pitchers -- Paniagua, Koch, Adkins == is simply frigtening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I'd be lying if I said I wasn't screaming at my television while Paniagua was grooving pitches - he was getting squeezed a bit - I heard he got ejected. He got ejected for flipping off the ump. Completely classless and ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosk8 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 He got ejected for flipping off the ump. Completely classless and ignorant. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he was released today. Not the kind of guy we need in this clubhouse right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Jose Pantiagua, meet Ken Hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elcaballo45 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Would have stayed with schoe, but at least we found out that Jose is absolutely positively unusable in any critical situations. Lol.. yeah, i guess its good we didnt bring him in with a 4 run lead thinking that lead was safe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Jose Pantiagua, meet Ken Hill. HAHA. Now we're talking, Ken Hill. That was tremendous, well, Ol' Ken was awful, but he had a smiling face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Gotta release Joey Bread-and-Water right now. Not only can he not get anyone out, but to read that he flipped off the ump is just embarrassing. There are no "easy" games left for him to be brought in to "see what he's got". He's not on the postseason roster. The Sox have several guys who can take whatever mop-up innings he might have pitched. Chalk him up to a failed experiment, wish him well in his future endeavors and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 JM will cost us a couple more games before the season is over, let's just hope we can overcome them. The biggest example of this is not pitching Paniagua or Koch against the Indians. Does anyone have a rational how you do this? The man is a menace and feel he will do us in when all is said and done. If the game is close today we are in trouble. JM seems more willing to do every thing in his power to beat weaker teams and will risk losing to better teams. After stating this I relaize we play better against the better teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I honestly wasn't too upset at his managing tonight. What should he have done tonight? Kip I would have used Koch, the reason is he has major league experieince and if you could get this guy right then he may be a useful asset on the championship team. Pana whatever has not pitched in the majors in two years. I don't beleive you bring a guy like that in a playoff run. He belongs on the spring training team. We need to get Koch right, that would have been a good spot. That is the only change, I agreed with going with the mop ups in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 (1)It may not have been the dumbest thing Jerry's done, but it's the most recent one, so it seems dumber. (2) Marte hasn't been in a game since Sunday, so I think he's good to go tonight and tomorrow. (3) You gotta be real bad for everybody to wish Koch was in, but Panny pulled it off. KELLY WUNSCH!!! Why do we not use this guy? Does Tinkerbell have something against side arm throwers or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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