winninguglyin83 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. Somewhere, Rick White is laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 LOL...Well according to this thread Paniaqua sucks and he's done for the rest of the season. Calm down guys. Yes, I do think that is what we learned tonight. Fortunately it didn't cost us the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 What JM did wrong was experiment against a team he has a one game advantage on (now 2). Put Paniagua in a game you are losing big to see if he can be effective, he wasn't particularly effective at Charlotte. I was against his signing all along, it was a waste of money. What this does is now he has to go to Gordon for the 5th time is 6 games, and Gordon warmed up yesterday, although he didn't get in the game. Gordon is probably cashed for tomorrow. Marte was up 3 times tonight , so that could almost count as an appearance. I swear, I was at the game, and if they blew it I wanted to take JM out. I was hot. He really needs a new job. The Sox won, but this could effect the rest of the series by A. the toll it took on the rest of the bullpen and B. it gave the Twins something positive to go back to the Westin with. Hopefully Paniagua will be released soon, if for the only reason JM couldn't be tempted to use him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. Jose P should have never been in the game to begin with and should have never had the chance to be held accountable. Anyone who defends JM in this scenario is blind in their view and needs to be thumped over the head with a large, heavy object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. Jose P should have never been in the game to begin with and should have never had the chance to be held accountable. Anyone who defends JM in this scenario is blind in their view and needs to be thumped over the head with a large, heavy object. Bulls*** You gotta see what the guy has, and it's a 6 run lead You are managing in hindsight cuz if he went 1-2-3 none of this talk comes up now, does it? You can argue that he was left in too late, but other than that, should we go to Marte and Gordon if it's 6 run lead or less every damn time? Go thump yourself, tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. Somewhere, Rick White is laughing. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. Jose P should have never been in the game to begin with and should have never had the chance to be held accountable. Anyone who defends JM in this scenario is blind in their view and needs to be thumped over the head with a large, heavy object. Bulls*** You gotta see what the guy has, and it's a 6 run lead You are managing in hindsight cuz if he went 1-2-3 none of this talk comes up now, does it? You can argue that he was left in too late, but other than that, should we go to Marte and Gordon if it's 6 run lead or less every damn time? Go thump yourself, tool You leave Schoenweiss in. This is not the time to experiment. The other thing is he hadn't faced live hitters in over a week. I'm sure your attitude about it would be different if Mohr put one in the bleachers. Its too close to be screwing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. Jose P should have never been in the game to begin with and should have never had the chance to be held accountable. Anyone who defends JM in this scenario is blind in their view and needs to be thumped over the head with a large, heavy object. Bulls*** You gotta see what the guy has, and it's a 6 run lead You are managing in hindsight cuz if he went 1-2-3 none of this talk comes up now, does it? You can argue that he was left in too late, but other than that, should we go to Marte and Gordon if it's 6 run lead or less every damn time? Go thump yourself, tool You leave Schoenweiss in. This is not the time to experiment. The other thing is he hadn't faced live hitters in over a week. I'm sure your attitude about it would be different if Mohr put one in the bleachers. Its too close to be screwing around. But he had a six run lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Maybe your opinion, mine, he's done stupid things, but this takes the cake. He blows this win, the whole season is in jeapordy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. Especially when you have Kelly Wunsch sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs & being bored cause Manuel hardly ever plays him. That's our Jerry though......tinker tinker tinker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Maybe your opinion, mine, he's done stupid things, but this takes the cake. He blows this win, the whole season is in jeapordy. When are players accountable I don't give a crap who in the hell you put in with a 6 run lead, there's no way the guy should make it as close as it was. I think he left him in there too long; but that's not what anyone is arguing about Putting him in to begin with isn't a problem. You will never know what you have unless he's used. Plus, it saves ur other more valuable arms for the next two games and so on. JM has done some stupid things, but to say it's the stupidest thing you've ever seen, supposedly watching all these games u claim...i mean come on already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. Especially when you have Kelly Wunsch sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs & being bored cause Manuel hardly ever plays him. That's our Jerry though......tinker tinker tinker! Right. The Sox won, which is great. But the reprecussions of this could hurt in the next couple of days. Gordon shouldn't pitch the next 2 games. Marte, maybe one of them. That's a lot of pressure to put on your starters, and on guys like Sullivan, and Wunsch. Not to mention, it may give Minnesota a little more confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Maybe your opinion, mine, he's done stupid things, but this takes the cake. He blows this win, the whole season is in jeapordy. When are players accountable I don't give a crap who in the hell you put in with a 6 run lead, there's no way the guy should make it as close as it was. I think he left him in there too long; but that's not what anyone is arguing about Putting him in to begin with isn't a problem. You will never know what you have unless he's used. Plus, it saves ur other more valuable arms for the next two games and so on. JM has done some stupid things, but to say it's the stupidest thing you've ever seen, supposedly watching all these games u claim...i mean come on already. This is Jose Paniagua, a guy who was released by DETROIT, and cut by TAMPA in spring training. He sucked in the Mexican League, his era over 9.00, he wasn't very good at Charlotte, he has no business being in the major leagues, let alone a first place ballclub. If Minnesota were to score 6 runs, I believe the best chance they had would be against this bum. Wunsch was ready, Schoenweiss could have remained in. A game against Minnesota is not the time to see what he could do. Why didn't he use him when the Sox were up by 5 in the 9th against Cleveland? He decided to use Gordon for the 4th straight game. What arms did he save? He had to use his closer, what an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. Especially when you have Kelly Wunsch sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs & being bored cause Manuel hardly ever plays him. That's our Jerry though......tinker tinker tinker! Scho was easily available as was Wunsch. Those would of been my guys. I had no problem giving Paniagua a shot, but after two batters I saw he had absolutely nothing. Get him out then, instead he gives up another hit and a walk. With Panigagua in I'd of had Wunsch or Koch already up and ready. I'd of made a point to not go with Gordon and Marte. Those are the guys that need the rest and the best way to ensure that is go with some guys you trust. For me I got enough faith in Wunsch, Scho, and even Koch to get 3 outs with a 6 run lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Sad but true thought: Rick White was right the man has no clue how to handle a bullpen None. When everyone in ur pen is doing well, ur a genius When everyone in ur pen is sucking it up, ur a moron You are what your pen does. Bringing anyone in with a 6 run lead really can't be a bad decision in and of itself. Quit blaming JM sometimes, hold these damn pitchers accountable Also, a lot of you manage in hinsight, and we all know that's 20/20. To put a pitcher who hasn't faced major league hitters in a year, and was released by Detroit, and cut by Tampa in spring training, in the game, a must game, is the dumbest decision I have ever witnessed a manager make. And to leave him in long enough for 4 people to reach base against him is incomprehenisble. You haven't watched nearly enough baseball then I've been to at least 1,000 White Sox games in my lifetime. I watch almost every game that I don't attend on TV. If you have a spare 10 hours my wife will tell you all about my "obsession". JM is a dope. You don't remember any of it then. To call this the dumbest thing you've ever seen, is ridiculous Hell, i've seen much more stupid stuff out of jerry this year alone Maybe your opinion, mine, he's done stupid things, but this takes the cake. He blows this win, the whole season is in jeapordy. When are players accountable I don't give a crap who in the hell you put in with a 6 run lead, there's no way the guy should make it as close as it was. I think he left him in there too long; but that's not what anyone is arguing about Putting him in to begin with isn't a problem. You will never know what you have unless he's used. Plus, it saves ur other more valuable arms for the next two games and so on. JM has done some stupid things, but to say it's the stupidest thing you've ever seen, supposedly watching all these games u claim...i mean come on already. This is Jose Paniagua, a guy who was released by DETROIT, and cut by TAMPA in spring training. He sucked in the Mexican League, his era over 9.00, he wasn't very good at Charlotte, he has no business being in the major leagues, let alone a first place ballclub. If Minnesota were to score 6 runs, I believe the best chance they had would be against this bum. Wunsch was ready, Schoenweiss could have remained in. A game against Minnesota is not the time to see what he could do. Why didn't he use him when the Sox were up by 5 in the 9th against Cleveland? He decided to use Gordon for the 4th straight game. What arms did he save? He had to use his closer, what an idiot. Well then why is he on the roster? You could be blaming the wrong person here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 At the time Paniagua was brought in the game, I didn't have a problem with it. It was an attempt, with a 6 run lead, to save some other members of his pen. I did question why it was Paniagua, though. I think he would have been my last choice, at that time, remembering that I wouldn't want to use Gordon or Marte if at all possible. But after the first two hitters, yes he should have been pulled. Someone should have been ready to go at the time JP was called in from the pen. I do question these two aspects of that 9th inning, but not the fact that JM tried to finish the game without using Marte,Gordon or get more from Sullivan or Schoeny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Hands down, this was THE PERFECT game to let Koch come back in...he coulda pitched the 9th inning in a big game, maybe give up a couple hits, but he at least gets the 3 outs. It gives Marte and Gordon both a badly needed night off, keeps Wunsch ready just in case something really bad happened, we'da still had a lefty specialist. Paniagua shouldnt even be here...we can't get the guys we already had enough innings, i.e Wunsch, Adkins and Koch. No reason to see what he has left in his tank in THIS game. When we play our toughest competition, we need proven guys, and Jose "Out of MLB for 3 years" Paniagua ain't gonna cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 (1)It may not have been the dumbest thing Jerry's done, but it's the most recent one, so it seems dumber. (2) Marte hasn't been in a game since Sunday, so I think he's good to go tonight and tomorrow. (3) You gotta be real bad for everybody to wish Koch was in, but Panny pulled it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 (3) You gotta be real bad for everybody to wish Koch was in, but Panny pulled it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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