2015-16 NHL thread

[LDF]

Yea, three cups is quite the screw up. And I'm sorry you made the situation personal with Bowman, but that is your unfounded gripe, not mine.

 

Do you seriously read what you are writing? You are acting like 3 cups isn't good enough, Bowman has more to prove to everyone, and then you throw in daddy pot shots every chance you get and bring up Tallon like he didn't leave the Hawks in cap hell, thus needing the Bowmans to step in and clean up his mess. I don't know what other success the Hawks need for you to judge.

 

somehow this little fact is a bit skewed.

 

ref to the 3 cups, not when this team can do more. pro's will want to get that one more, as the fans want that one cup.

 

btw, how come you don't answer the question on whether you like this trade or not.

Edited July 11, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

Garbutt scored one less point than Shaw in 12 less games, and Shaw had PP time. Garbutt at 900K is a good deal, think Desjardins but a better scorer and he can fly.

 

Look, Sharp had to go, we all knew that. The thing that gets the fans upset about this trade is including Johns in the deal.

 

i will be honest here. i don't know if it is johns being included or not.

[LittleHurt05]

i remember when tallon was the gm, talk was swirling of bowman advancing in the ranks. according the some new source back then bowman sr and jr were constantly talking with sr doing most of the talking, esp at practices.

 

now, again among the fans, when tallon was let go and bowman jr took over, they are talks that sr was helping jr.

 

now back to what i wrote, i mentioned on the other nhl thread that was put away, this off season will show me, what kind of gm bowman is really and i will be snarky and say, i guess he is not getting any real time info from daddy.

 

Why would Bowman Sr stop helping Stan? Especially as he is still employed by the Hawks. Every GM has a staff and advisors, why wouldn't you use one of the greatest minds in hockey history? I hope he asks Daddy about every move, it can only help.

[LittleHurt05]

There is an odd group out there that still pines for Tallon and refuse to give Bowman any credit. LDF isn't the only one out there. I'm not even the biggest Stan supporter in the world, but what he has accomplished during his time here can absolutely not be ignored, yet there is a group out there that actually seem to want to punish him for inheriting a team with Toews and Kane. He will never be able to get out of that shadow.

 

I'll enjoy watching what this new squad does next year, and excited to see some fresh faces in the lineup for a new run.

 

Well said. Would Bowman have won 3 Cups without Toews and Kane? Of course not. But would Tallon have won 3 Cups if he was never fired? I'm not so sure about that either.

[Kyyle23]

somehow this little fact is a bit skewed.

 

ref to the 3 cups, not when this team can do more. pro's will want to get that one more, as the fans want that one cup.

 

btw, how come you don't answer the question on whether you like this trade or not.

 

The trade is fine, it frees up money to make more moves. Of course Sharp would be missed but he has been relatively invisible in the playoffs the past few years. The Hawks will be ok without him.

 

Again, it is totally irrelevant to this discussion because you are basing your anger at this trade on your dislike for Bowman, which is ludicrous.

 

If any other GM in Chicago won three championships in 6 years and was a perennial contender every season in between would be a god in the town, but you are like "no, not good enough. He hasn't shown me enough"

 

And please tell me how that fact is skewed

[LDF]

The trade is fine, it frees up money to make more moves. Of course Sharp would be missed but he has been relatively invisible in the playoffs the past few years. The Hawks will be ok without him.

 

Again, it is totally irrelevant to this discussion because you are basing your anger at this trade on your dislike for Bowman, which is ludicrous.

 

If any other GM in Chicago won three championships in 6 years and was a perennial contender every season in between would be a god in the town, but you are like "no, not good enough. He hasn't shown me enough"

 

And please tell me how that fact is skewed

 

i really have no problem explaining myself.

 

1. i have stated now and in the past i did not believe Bowman did anything to earned that position except for his relations.

2. i keep stating that, as a disclaimer on my rants for idiot moves made by the gm. (this is a sports forum so poster will always have opinions)

3, i made my statements just recently in another nhl thread. so i am still keeping on what i am saying.

4. these trades will define bowman more than anything else he has done. but >>>>>>

5. the cost to prove whether he is right or wrong, will effect the hawks ability to win.

6. the rtn is horrible for a salary dump

7. all this, fiasco should have been anticipated before the draft....... it is his job to be prepared for anything. have backup plans

8. then lastly, over estimating bickell, steeger and even sharp, to be asking for a kings ransom for their services in any trade before the draft.

 

now, as i have always stated, everyone is tradeable, but it is the cost to make it happen will determine if it gets done.

 

per rumors pages;

sharp - 1 first rnd draft pick, 1 prospect ranking in the 3-7 range and 1 active player.

bickell - 2-4 rnd draft pick, i prospect.

steeger - prospects..... ranking unknwn.

 

in ref to being skewed, i was wondering if any were looking at the points i was presenting or just concertinaing on one statement, my disclaimer. lastly i am still wanting to know whether you like the trade. not that you can live with it.

 

the whole thought process of this trade. not b/c of sharp carefree attitude but what was given up and what the rtn was.

Edited July 12, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

Well said. Would Bowman have won 3 Cups without Toews and Kane? Of course not. But would Tallon have won 3 Cups if he was never fired? I'm not so sure about that either.

bowman walked into the this org with the main core there. that first cup is all tallon. now the other 2 bowman made some smart moves to position the hawks for the other 2 cups.

 

no one is talking about the lack of trade on 2014 that was there, all he had to do was pull the trigger. maybe or maybe no, the hawks may have won the cup that yr.

 

who knows.

 

this demigod worship for bowman and that he can do not wrong, is what is annoying to me. look at the results of the trade. the rtns of the trade.

Edited July 12, 2015 by LDF

[Middle Buffalo]

So, this NHL 2015-16 thread is officially the LDF 2015-16 thread, right?

Edited July 12, 2015 by Middle Buffalo

[LDF]

So, this NHL 2015-16 thread is officially the LDF 2015-16 thread, right?

maybe you should post more instead of taking cheap shot from the balcony..... btw, when was the last time you posted anything worthwhile on this thread???

 

afraid of showing your lack of IQ. oops, you just did it.

[LDF]

Aren't you the guy that refuses to acknowledge any potential lineups because you don't like to talk about what may or may happen, yet you are 100% fine with basing your expectations set by posters on message boards and what rumors may be out there by reporters on a potential return. They aren't facts. It's why your expectations are so skewed, and why everyone seems to argue with only you in this thread.

 

nah you are right, there is a fine line to walk in that, people who comes up with crazy post, without any ideas of what they are talking about it one thing.

 

then there are those who will read and make a dash to post it, so they can be #1 in posting it, is another.

 

i like to read, and read and remember what i am reading. i catalog that information so when i have to make a post, i can be well informed. the hockey rumors sites are the most useless sites for a direct line on updated info. but once in a while they may be right. again, useful info or info that best served to line a bird cage, it is all news.

 

now the trade info / rumors that was being banter about concerning the hawks, well even the sports sites may have stated some of that, well the question is, was the info those site were reliable or did they get it from the rumors sites.

 

trying to prove that my info, or my rant is ummm as you said skewed, again, disprove my statements or the rtn of the trade.

 

now arguing with me, i would like to think it is more of a debate. there is no swearing no cussing only my attempt to state my opinions base on the facts of what has happen. maybe some should do the same, instead of trying to disprove me, the poster. disprove the facts of what i am stating.

 

my expectation is simple. the hawks won another championship. good, don't sit on the laurels, start working on getting things moving to get ready for the next go around. between the championship parade / celebration and the draft is but a couple of weeks. those couple of weeks and the summer is very important to make trades, draft the next group of prospects, sign FA's. there is no time to relax, the fo needs to be prepared. if not, they screwed up.

 

the fo personnel people knew this, and they should have been ready. this is their world they volunteer for.

[LDF]

Aren't you the guy that refuses to acknowledge any potential lineups because you don't like to talk about what may or may happen, yet you are 100% fine with basing your expectations set by posters on message boards and what rumors may be out there by reporters on a potential return. They aren't facts. It's why your expectations are so skewed, and why everyone seems to argue with only you in this thread.

 

oops i forgot one thing,

 

potential lineup based on what someone hope is nothing but fantasy..... come on....

[LDF]

So, this NHL 2015-16 thread is officially the LDF 2015-16 thread, right?

 

and btw, i post my belief, i usually don't chg it, b/c most feels differently about it. i will stand up for what i believe and if posters want to take cheap shots, go ahead. if someone wants to debate what i wrote, sure. i will.

 

why is it, if someone is not in the IN-CROWD, of follow the leader, ........ well i will let you figure that one out.

 

i am not always right. but i am not always wrong. this is a sports forum.

[LittleHurt05]

bowman walked into the this org with the main core there. that first cup is all tallon. now the other 2 bowman made some smart moves to position the hawks for the other 2 cups.

 

no one is talking about the lack of trade on 2014 that was there, all he had to do was pull the trigger. maybe or maybe no, the hawks may have won the cup that yr.

 

who knows.

 

this demigod worship for bowman and that he can do not wrong, is what is annoying to me. look at the results of the trade. the rtns of the trade.

 

The 2014 Hawks were eliminated in the Western Conference Finals in game 7, in overtime, on a deflection, by the team that won the 2012 Cup, and made the 2013 WCF. What trade exactly would have changed that outcome? Playoff hockey can be a coin flip at times, but apparently you blame it all on Bowman. That was the only series they lost in their last 11, that is crazy in modern day salary cap hockey.

 

Where is this demigod worship anyway? Nobody is happy that Johns was traded away, he has been criticized for that on this board plenty. But they are less than a month from winning the Cup, some people are willing to let the season play out first, as opposed to you basing everything on message board rumors.

[Balta1701]

I know very little about hockey but if you're going to tell me the Hawks should have done something different on the path to assembling a team than won the Stanley Cup because long term it might have improved their roster. No.

[LDF]

I know very little about hockey but if you're going to tell me the Hawks should have done something different on the path to assembling a team than won the Stanley Cup because long term it might have improved their roster. No.

 

no. and not making trades is also wrong. the hawks needed to make these trades esp for salary reasons alone.

 

these trades to me, look like desperation trades, and i may be wrong.

 

again for me, what was the catalyst that triggered this trades, very 1 sided trades. plus, i still think, and this is my opinion, he waited too long on several possible trades and got screwed in the Saad. again to me, he wasn't fully prepared for this.

 

this is my next rant.

 

I want MORE Stanley Cups.

Edited July 12, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

The 2014 Hawks were eliminated in the Western Conference Finals in game 7, in overtime, on a deflection, by the team that won the 2012 Cup, and made the 2013 WCF. What trade exactly would have changed that outcome? Playoff hockey can be a coin flip at times, but apparently you blame it all on Bowman. That was the only series they lost in their last 11, that is crazy in modern day salary cap hockey.

 

Where is this demigod worship anyway? Nobody is happy that Johns was traded away, he has been criticized for that on this board plenty. But they are less than a month from winning the Cup, some people are willing to let the season play out first, as opposed to you basing everything on message board rumors.

 

no not really, it was as if many were just saying that he help in getting the silver cups. that was the whole extent of that discussion.

 

i defended bowman before the draft, on the other thread. i stated, while some may not have like his trade that got the team 2 players, 1 was important in helping. for me, trading a possible last pick in the first round was well worth loosing it to get the SC.

 

look it up.

 

there is more moves to come.... count on it. i just hope the one move i heard is wrong.....

 

[Balta1701]

I want MORE Stanley Cups.

And if your rant reads as "they should have made these trades back in 2014"...my answer is simple. No.

[LDF]

And if your rant reads as "they should have made these trades back in 2014"...my answer is simple. No.

 

ok for this, you made a point.

 

let me clarify again. the hawks had the makings of doing a good run in 14...... bowman was hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade.

 

no one can fault him. hindsight is in play here. all i was saying is damn if you do and damn if you don't. but he wasn't prepared this offseason.

 

i am not ranting against him b/c he didn't do the trade......

 

he reminds me of Keenan the old hawk coach and gm. he would make these late season trades, trading prospects and picks for vet players.

 

those picks may take 3-4 yrs to develop. the winning in the playoff is now.

[Balta1701]

ok for this, you made a point.

 

let me clarify again. the hawks had the makings of doing a good run in 14...... bowman was hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade.

 

no one can fault him. hindsight is in play here. all i was saying is damn if you do and damn if you don't. but he wasn't prepared this offseason.

 

i am not ranting against him b/c he didn't do the trade......

 

he reminds me of Keenan the old hawk coach and gm. he would make these late season trades, trading prospects and picks for vet players.

 

those picks may take 3-4 yrs to develop. the winning in the playoff is now.

Read your own words. "damn if you do" = "won a stanley cup." I wish every sports team I'm a fan of could be d*mned if they did based on that standard. If you want to criticize him based on the 2015 offseason I can listen to that. If you want to tell me how he did something wrong in 2014 by not planning for the 2015 offseason you can see my previous answer.

 

Take the Cup and then figure out the next step. You've got a team capable of winning the Stanley Cup, who cares about the next offseason's troubles? The Hawks have followed that rule 3+ times now. Counting the trade with New Jersey last year they've had to follow that rule at least 4 times now, every time they've finished the season they've had to let people go for less than they were worth in order to keep a Cup-ready team on the ice and it keeps working. So yes, they are selling people off from a losing position. They're in a position where people know they need to make trades. And while they're doing that, they've won 3 cups and been 1 overtime away from a 4th.

 

I don't know Hockey, I don't know the exact cap rules, but you start saying that they should weaken the team in 2014 to avoid these kind of problems in 2015 and even I have to get into this against you.

[LittleHurt05]

ok for this, you made a point.

 

let me clarify again. the hawks had the makings of doing a good run in 14...... bowman was hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade.

 

no one can fault him. hindsight is in play here. all i was saying is damn if you do and damn if you don't. but he wasn't prepared this offseason.

 

i am not ranting against him b/c he didn't do the trade......

 

he reminds me of Keenan the old hawk coach and gm. he would make these late season trades, trading prospects and picks for vet players.

 

those picks may take 3-4 yrs to develop. the winning in the playoff is now.

 

What are you even arguing anymore? Every trade Bowman has made this offseason has been about winning the Cup in 2015-16. In the Sharp trade, he got a 33 year old D man, the trade made the Hawks older. That is about winning now. The Saad trade got active players, not draft picks.

 

And what trade did he miss in 2014 that would have guaranteed a Cup. That team may have been better than the 2015 team, but s*** happens in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

 

 

[soxfan49]

Yeah, let's get a physical defenseman. The Hawks have shown year after year that they definitely rely on their hard hitting, nasty attitude. Get more of those. The fast, highly skilled kind (Keith), shot blocking, stay at home, do anything for the team kind (Hjalmarsson) and clutch kind (Seabrook) don't cut it in this league anymore.

 

[LDF]

Read your own words. "damn if you do" = "won a stanley cup." I wish every sports team I'm a fan of could be d*mned if they did based on that standard. If you want to criticize him based on the 2015 offseason I can listen to that. If you want to tell me how he did something wrong in 2014 by not planning for the 2015 offseason you can see my previous answer.

 

Take the Cup and then figure out the next step. You've got a team capable of winning the Stanley Cup, who cares about the next offseason's troubles? The Hawks have followed that rule 3+ times now. Counting the trade with New Jersey last year they've had to follow that rule at least 4 times now, every time they've finished the season they've had to let people go for less than they were worth in order to keep a Cup-ready team on the ice and it keeps working. So yes, they are selling people off from a losing position. They're in a position where people know they need to make trades. And while they're doing that, they've won 3 cups and been 1 overtime away from a 4th.

 

I don't know Hockey, I don't know the exact cap rules, but you start saying that they should weaken the team in 2014 to avoid these kind of problems in 2015 and even I have to get into this against you.

 

again, let me explained, i am not criticizing him based on his not doing anything in 2014. i am not even holding any grudges b/c of anything on 2014. i was using 2014 as an example if i was to be petty.

 

on season 2015, i defended him on his last 2 trades, where some posters on this site were criticizing him for giving up a first rounder. it is posted on the last 2 or 3 pages of the old thread that was closed.

 

this part of my criticizing is coming from this yr draft day moves or lack of till now. again, look at what i wrote, i am not ranting on the trading in principal i am complaining on the quality of the trades and how it all started. by bowman not being prepared and asking for some outrageous rtn, if the sports sites, not rumors site are to be believed.

[LDF]

What are you even arguing anymore? Every trade Bowman has made this offseason has been about winning the Cup in 2015-16. In the Sharp trade, he got a 33 year old D man, the trade made the Hawks older. That is about winning now. The Saad trade got active players, not draft picks.

 

And what trade did he miss in 2014 that would have guaranteed a Cup. That team may have been better than the 2015 team, but s*** happens in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

 

just b/c he made those trades, but every trade are not quality trades.

 

come on, think about it, anyone can used the "well he meant it to help" line, to justify it, but it doesn't mean it was a good trade.

[LDF]

Yeah, let's get a physical defenseman. The Hawks have shown year after year that they definitely rely on their hard hitting, nasty attitude. Get more of those. The fast, highly skilled kind (Keith), shot blocking, stay at home, do anything for the team kind (Hjalmarsson) and clutch kind (Seabrook) don't cut it in this league anymore.

 

 

and your point is???

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yeah, let's get a physical defenseman. The Hawks have shown year after year that they definitely rely on their hard hitting, nasty attitude. Get more of those. The fast, highly skilled kind (Keith), shot blocking, stay at home, do anything for the team kind (Hjalmarsson) and clutch kind (Seabrook) don't cut it in this league anymore.

 

 

Are you talking about Daley? Isn't he considered a speedy, offensive D-man?

 

Or maybe I'm coming in to the middle of a different conversation.