2015-16 NHL thread

[southsider2k5]

I dunno. Letting Seabrook go after next year and managing to keep Brandon Saad would have been preferable, IMHO.

 

Except that isn't how the contracts worked. They had to make Saad fit now, not next year.

[LDF]

Except that isn't how the contracts worked. They had to make Saad fit now, not next year.

 

but as i pointed out, before, the hawks FO was po'ed on bowman handling that rumored, yeah that evil rumored trade failure before the draft.

 

the end result was the trading of Saad and loosing Johns.

 

the hawks screwed up the trade with ARZ and ARZ had to go out and make a trade for Ponger's contract. Dead money so ARZ could get to the salary cap floor. that was the failed trade with the hawks on bickell contract.

 

but that is the past, nothing can be said or done now.

[bmags]

I have a hard time believing the team should do anything except ride this core into the ground. Championships are everything, and I'd much rather they try to suck every cup possible from this unit than do a better job prepping for 5 years from now. There are a lot of good teams in the NHL, a lot of rosters I look at and say "wow, they look great". But the Hawks keep winning. This core has that something, you gotta ride with it, deal with the rest as it comes.

[southsider2k5]

but as i pointed out, before, the hawks FO was po'ed on bowman handling that rumored, yeah that evil rumored trade failure before the draft.

 

the end result was the trading of Saad and loosing Johns.

 

the hawks screwed up the trade with ARZ and ARZ had to go out and make a trade for Ponger's contract. Dead money so ARZ could get to the salary cap floor. that was the failed trade with the hawks on bickell contract.

 

but that is the past, nothing can be said or done now.

 

I still want to see some proof.

[LDF]

I have a hard time believing the team should do anything except ride this core into the ground. Championships are everything, and I'd much rather they try to suck every cup possible from this unit than do a better job prepping for 5 years from now. There are a lot of good teams in the NHL, a lot of rosters I look at and say "wow, they look great". But the Hawks keep winning. This core has that something, you gotta ride with it, deal with the rest as it comes.

 

excellent point.

 

every dynasty has a expiration date.

 

the hawks are hammer, keith, kane, toews and yes crawford.

 

i agree to ride this group as long as possible depending on the evil salary cap kills this team.

 

but i still would like to continue to employ new blood to help in prolonging that run with smart draft, fa pickup and yes when needed to release a favorite player.

 

progression.... i what i am thinking about.

[LDF]

I still want to see some proof.

 

rumors .... you have the luxury and has done so, willing to believe one rumor and discard others, based on your opinion.

 

so unless bowman come to you and verify this, i can see how you will never believe anything unless it is along your opinion.

 

so deal with those proof, or links or site i mention before.

[southsider2k5]

rumors .... you have the luxury and has done so, willing to believe one rumor and discard others, based on your opinion.

 

so unless bowman come to you and verify this, i can see how you will never believe anything unless it is along your opinion.

 

so deal with those proof, or links or site i mention before.

 

My contention is reality. Yours is underreported rumors. It is also common sense. Why would a guy who knows he has to make sense ignore exactly the deal that would help him most, in lieu of one that puts him under the public microscope?

 

When you deal in rumors, you deal in things that are at best partial truths. DO you actually know that this was the offer to the Hawks, or was it what the Hawks asked for? When the rumors run contra to common sense, I am going to require a little more vetting than just believing anything I am told because it was on the internet. What I do know is that no real reporter actually ever put their name on the report with some sort of confidence, which is another red flag.

[RockRaines]

but as i pointed out, before, the hawks FO was po'ed on bowman handling that rumored, yeah that evil rumored trade failure before the draft.

 

the end result was the trading of Saad and loosing Johns.

 

the hawks screwed up the trade with ARZ and ARZ had to go out and make a trade for Ponger's contract. Dead money so ARZ could get to the salary cap floor. that was the failed trade with the hawks on bickell contract.

 

but that is the past, nothing can be said or done now.

How can fake rumors on a site be "pointed out?"

[bmags]

Honestly the only trade rumors I believe are the ones that were reported finished and got hung up in ownership (ala garland/erstad and griffey in 05)

[LDF]

My contention is reality. Yours is underreported rumors. It is also common sense. Why would a guy who knows he has to make sense ignore exactly the deal that would help him most, in lieu of one that puts him under the public microscope?

 

When you deal in rumors, you deal in things that are at best partial truths. DO you actually know that this was the offer to the Hawks, or was it what the Hawks asked for? When the rumors run contra to common sense, I am going to require a little more vetting than just believing anything I am told because it was on the internet. What I do know is that no real reporter actually ever put their name on the report with some sort of confidence, which is another red flag.

 

so with ref to names, and or sites. TSN was the one , if i remember correctly, which i also mention, were the one who posted the bowman rumored with ARZ and the demands from bowman.

 

now that is that or this discussion.

 

i use rumors just to keep inform on what is happening or going to happen. every one uses rumors on this site in one way or another, admit that, even you. the common sense is all so subjective as i mention before, about your opinions on this.

 

rumors rumors and more rumors. everyone deal with rumors and have to deal with them, just b/c some will never be proven per some wish, it still should not be discarded so easily.

[LDF]

How can fake rumors on a site be "pointed out?"

 

no one can.... even when people claimed sources .....

 

everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt and be ferret out in time.

 

TSN is a respected site of sports info and they have a rumor site. all these sports sites deal and has a selection of rumors.

 

 

[LDF]

Honestly the only trade rumors I believe are the ones that were reported finished and got hung up in ownership (ala garland/erstad and griffey in 05)

 

i like this.

[LDF]

ref rumors

 

furthermore, there are some who claim inside news.... that too is should be considered a rumor as well.

 

yet some may believe those rumors and not others....

[CanOfCorn]

LDF and Austin Illini,

 

We...as fans...have the luxury of looking back on every signing, contract, trade or non-trade with 20/20 vision. Well, it's OUR 20/20 vision. We see things the way we want to. For instance, having to deal Saad to keep Seabrook. Signing Bickell to 4 years, whatever the total is. Trading this player we love for that player we don't love as much.

 

But there are things we don't see. Trades that are agreed to but pulled at the last minute because of injury or owner doesn't like it. Signings based on progress. Signings based on performance. Signings based on potential. Signings based on market.

 

Here's a stat. For this coming year. Brent Seabrook is the highest paid Blackhawks D-man. He is also the 13th highest paid d-man in the league. PK Subban is first at $9 m. This is just this year. Let's say Seabrooks contract kicked in this year. He'd be the 9th highest paid d-man in the league. Right behind Zdeno Chara.

 

So, now, let's look at the d group, cap hit and league rank:

 

Seabrook: $5.8 (13)

Keith: $5,538,462 (20)

Hammer: $4.1 (65)

Daley: $3.3 (94)

Rundblad: $1.05 (150)

TVR: $925,000 (157)

 

By the way, I got all of these at http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/defenseman/

 

You should see the murderers row of horribly paid defensemen above ours on that list. Even the ones that may have earned the contract haven't won a damn thing (Subban, Weber, Suter, Phaneuf, Pietrangelo, Karlsson).

 

You sign players like Keith and Seabrook and Hossa to those long but slightly undervalued contracts for two reasons...one for their service so they know they are going to be taken care of and two, other players notice this and want to play for your team, not oonly because you win, but because you are protected by your org.

 

But then, you would say, what about Bickell? Well, at the time he was extended, he just had a monster post-season. That's one. He's a power forward, something the Blackhawks don't have a lot of. That's two. That was the market rate for those types of players, coming off that season/playoffs. That's three. The cap was supposed to have gone up more than it has by now. That's four.

 

Let's go to trades. Sharp needed to go because he's getting older, the issues in the locker room, AND you have players ready to step up and take that role. Sure it sucked to lose Johns, but this is the old argument of how do you view minor leaguers? Are they tradeable until they prove they can play at the big league level? OR are they someone you need to hold onto because they are going to be awesome? Pros and cons to both, I would say. But, for me, Johns hasn't done anything until he does something (RIP Yogi).

 

Saad wanted to get paid. The Blackhawks couldn't afford him at what he wanted. If he would have taken a little bit of a discount, he would still be here. But, as is his right, he wanted the most he can get. So you get what you can. And to be honest, I think the FO did pretty damn well for themselves. So what if Dano isn't here to start the season. Teuvo wasn't either, but he was up when it mattered and won a Cup. It won't be long for Dano. AA is a serviceable 2C or 3C who should be pretty good on a line with Kane and Panarin.

 

Oduya waited as long as he could. He's more expensive and older than Kruger, so he had to get as much as he could. The Blackhawks couldn't meet his demands in his time frame. So, he found a team that could. Be well. But the fact that Kruger probably could have gotten double his salary, and maybe more, but opted to stay with the Hawks is pretty incredible.

 

My point with all of this isn't to prove you are wrong. Because you aren't wrong. But you aren't right either. And neither am I. Johns could be awesome and we could regret that trade. Sharp may score 40 or he may show his age. Dano might never pan out to be anything. Or he may be 75% of what Saad was. We could go through this with ALL of our players. So, let's just not. The Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 years and are poised to do it again in the next few. That's pretty incredible and Stan deserves credit for it.

 

One more thing. Sure Bickell's contract sucks now. I think we can all agree on that. But think of this...when he gets traded or sent down, there is so much depth, I wouldn't feel nervous about who would take his place. And honestly, other than Rundblad, I don't worry about the D depth either. Sure there are some green d-men in Svedberg, Pokka and Gustaffson, but one of those three should be able to step up when called upon.

 

Whew.

[southsider2k5]

Comcast SportsNet ‏@CSNChicago 4m4 minutes ago

 

#Blackhawks recall Ville Pokka, assign Viktor Svedberg to Rockford: http://bit.ly/1KYrTzx (@TramyersCSN)

[LDF]

LDF and Austin Illini,

 

We...as fans...have the luxury of looking back on every signing, contract, trade or non-trade with 20/20 vision. Well, it's OUR 20/20 vision. We see things the way we want to. For instance, having to deal Saad to keep Seabrook. Signing Bickell to 4 years, whatever the total is. Trading this player we love for that player we don't love as much.

 

in ref to the luxury, since we as fans are not to privy nor do they talk to us the fans for our advise. now when those action are done, i voiced my displeasure at the instinct it was posted. except for the bickell signing. i was not here at the time.

 

But there are things we don't see. Trades that are agreed to but pulled at the last minute because of injury or owner doesn't like it. Signings based on progress. Signings based on performance. Signings based on potential. Signings based on market.

 

good point. i agree.

 

Here's a stat. For this coming year. Brent Seabrook is the highest paid Blackhawks D-man. He is also the 13th highest paid d-man in the league. PK Subban is first at $9 m. This is just this year. Let's say Seabrooks contract kicked in this year. He'd be the 9th highest paid d-man in the league. Right behind Zdeno Chara.

 

So, now, let's look at the d group, cap hit and league rank:

 

Seabrook: $5.8 (13)

Keith: $5,538,462 (20)

Hammer: $4.1 (65)

Daley: $3.3 (94)

Rundblad: $1.05 (150)

TVR: $925,000 (157)

 

By the way, I got all of these at http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/defenseman/

 

You should see the murderers row of horribly paid defensemen above ours on that list. Even the ones that may have earned the contract haven't won a damn thing (Subban, Weber, Suter, Phaneuf, Pietrangelo, Karlsson).

 

i agreed but that is where the it comes to, make a offer and stick to it, depending on the player and their importance to the team. it has to be on per case.

 

You sign players like Keith and Seabrook and Hossa to those long but slightly undervalued contracts for two reasons...one for their service so they know they are going to be taken care of and two, other players notice this and want to play for your team, not oonly because you win, but because you are protected by your org.

 

each of those signing are important at the time and have an importance.... now look at keith age when he sign the contract.

 

But then, you would say, what about Bickell? Well, at the time he was extended, he just had a monster post-season. That's one. He's a power forward, something the Blackhawks don't have a lot of. That's two. That was the market rate for those types of players, coming off that season/playoffs. That's three. The cap was supposed to have gone up more than it has by now. That's four.

 

bickell was, as you said signed on his performance. now bickell performance has never changed, it is inconsistent at best.

 

Let's go to trades. Sharp needed to go because he's getting older, the issues in the locker room, AND you have players ready to step up and take that role. Sure it sucked to lose Johns, but this is the old argument of how do you view minor leaguers? Are they tradeable until they prove they can play at the big league level? OR are they someone you need to hold onto because they are going to be awesome? Pros and cons to both, I would say. But, for me, Johns hasn't done anything until he does something (RIP Yogi).

 

Saad wanted to get paid. The Blackhawks couldn't afford him at what he wanted. If he would have taken a little bit of a discount, he would still be here. But, as is his right, he wanted the most he can get. So you get what you can. And to be honest, I think the FO did pretty damn well for themselves. So what if Dano isn't here to start the season. Teuvo wasn't either, but he was up when it mattered and won a Cup. It won't be long for Dano. AA is a serviceable 2C or 3C who should be pretty good on a line with Kane and Panarin.

 

everyone wants to get paid, on TSN Saad explained his agent was not able to negotiate with the hawks. Saad points, skills and experience is and will be nissed. but it wasn't the trade, it was the reason on the failed movement of other items.

 

Oduya waited as long as he could. He's more expensive and older than Kruger, so he had to get as much as he could. The Blackhawks couldn't meet his demands in his time frame. So, he found a team that could. Be well. But the fact that Kruger probably could have gotten double his salary, and maybe more, but opted to stay with the Hawks is pretty incredible.

 

My point with all of this isn't to prove you are wrong. Because you aren't wrong. But you aren't right either. And neither am I. Johns could be awesome and we could regret that trade. Sharp may score 40 or he may show his age. Dano might never pan out to be anything. Or he may be 75% of what Saad was. We could go through this with ALL of our players. So, let's just not. The Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 years and are poised to do it again in the next few. That's pretty incredible and Stan deserves credit for it.

 

One more thing. Sure Bickell's contract sucks now. I think we can all agree on that. But think of this...when he gets traded or sent down, there is so much depth, I wouldn't feel nervous about who would take his place. And honestly, other than Rundblad, I don't worry about the D depth either. Sure there are some green d-men in Svedberg, Pokka and Gustaffson, but one of those three should be able to step up when called upon.

 

Whew.

 

whew is right and nice post.

 

i made my bold as counters.

 

now with ref to seabs... he deserve the money and i made my points on why i did not like the signing.

 

again, bowman recoup what started as a lousy start of the off season. no one can dispute that. what bowman did and with a great effort, he recoup this with some nice players. these players are young replacement in which i am talking about .... employing new fresh young blood to keep the core fresh.

 

i am stoke for the uncertainty of all these new moves. as a fan, does anyone really think i want the hawks to fail to prove a point???

 

[LDF]

Comcast SportsNet ‏@CSNChicago 4m4 minutes ago

 

#Blackhawks recall Ville Pokka, assign Viktor Svedberg to Rockford: http://bit.ly/1KYrTzx (@TramyersCSN)

 

interesting.... really took me by surprise.

 

thanks for the update.

[southsider2k5]

Tracey Myers ‏@TramyersCSN 56m56 minutes ago

 

#Blackhawks recall Ville Pokka, assign Viktor Svedberg to Rockford and place Michal Rozsival on LTIR.

[CanOfCorn]

whew is right and nice post.

 

i made my bold as counters.

 

now with ref to seabs... he deserve the money and i made my points on why i did not like the signing.

 

again, bowman recoup what started as a lousy start of the off season. no one can dispute that. what bowman did and with a great effort, he recoup this with some nice players. these players are young replacement in which i am talking about .... employing new fresh young blood to keep the core fresh.

 

i am stoke for the uncertainty of all these new moves. as a fan, does anyone really think i want the hawks to fail to prove a point???

 

Your comment on Bickell is exactly what I was talking about. You can't just look at a contract as where it stands right now. Of course Bickell hasn't played up to that contract. But, no one could have known that back then. You can't retroactively look at a contract and call for someone's head based on a players performance. It was market value AT THE TIME. If Bickell was playing better, no one would care. He might even be a deal. But Stan shouldn't be kicked in the crotch for that contract.

[CanOfCorn]

Tracey Myers ‏@TramyersCSN 56m56 minutes ago

 

#Blackhawks recall Ville Pokka, assign Viktor Svedberg to Rockford and place Michal Rozsival on LTIR.

 

Showcase.

[LDF]

Your comment on Bickell is exactly what I was talking about. You can't just look at a contract as where it stands right now. Of course Bickell hasn't played up to that contract. But, no one could have known that back then. You can't retroactively look at a contract and call for someone's head based on a players performance. It was market value AT THE TIME. If Bickell was playing better, no one would care. He might even be a deal. But Stan shouldn't be kicked in the crotch for that contract.

 

yes he can when, and remember when i said i wasn't here at the time, many in the hockey world thought his contract was an over payment.

 

ref the bold, bowman has to be aware of all of that , he has the highest position in any hockey org outside president. a gm can not be taken unaware or if he is, he will be replaced.

[LDF]

Showcase.

 

interesting .... you think he is being showcase for a trade... if so, i wonder whom.

[Panerista]

LDF and Austin Illini,

 

We...as fans...have the luxury of looking back on every signing, contract, trade or non-trade with 20/20 vision. Well, it's OUR 20/20 vision. We see things the way we want to. For instance, having to deal Saad to keep Seabrook. Signing Bickell to 4 years, whatever the total is. Trading this player we love for that player we don't love as much.

 

But there are things we don't see. Trades that are agreed to but pulled at the last minute because of injury or owner doesn't like it. Signings based on progress. Signings based on performance. Signings based on potential. Signings based on market.

 

Here's a stat. For this coming year. Brent Seabrook is the highest paid Blackhawks D-man. He is also the 13th highest paid d-man in the league. PK Subban is first at $9 m. This is just this year. Let's say Seabrooks contract kicked in this year. He'd be the 9th highest paid d-man in the league. Right behind Zdeno Chara.

 

So, now, let's look at the d group, cap hit and league rank:

 

Seabrook: $5.8 (13)

Keith: $5,538,462 (20)

Hammer: $4.1 (65)

Daley: $3.3 (94)

Rundblad: $1.05 (150)

TVR: $925,000 (157)

 

By the way, I got all of these at http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/defenseman/

 

You should see the murderers row of horribly paid defensemen above ours on that list. Even the ones that may have earned the contract haven't won a damn thing (Subban, Weber, Suter, Phaneuf, Pietrangelo, Karlsson).

 

You sign players like Keith and Seabrook and Hossa to those long but slightly undervalued contracts for two reasons...one for their service so they know they are going to be taken care of and two, other players notice this and want to play for your team, not oonly because you win, but because you are protected by your org.

 

But then, you would say, what about Bickell? Well, at the time he was extended, he just had a monster post-season. That's one. He's a power forward, something the Blackhawks don't have a lot of. That's two. That was the market rate for those types of players, coming off that season/playoffs. That's three. The cap was supposed to have gone up more than it has by now. That's four.

 

Let's go to trades. Sharp needed to go because he's getting older, the issues in the locker room, AND you have players ready to step up and take that role. Sure it sucked to lose Johns, but this is the old argument of how do you view minor leaguers? Are they tradeable until they prove they can play at the big league level? OR are they someone you need to hold onto because they are going to be awesome? Pros and cons to both, I would say. But, for me, Johns hasn't done anything until he does something (RIP Yogi).

 

Saad wanted to get paid. The Blackhawks couldn't afford him at what he wanted. If he would have taken a little bit of a discount, he would still be here. But, as is his right, he wanted the most he can get. So you get what you can. And to be honest, I think the FO did pretty damn well for themselves. So what if Dano isn't here to start the season. Teuvo wasn't either, but he was up when it mattered and won a Cup. It won't be long for Dano. AA is a serviceable 2C or 3C who should be pretty good on a line with Kane and Panarin.

 

Oduya waited as long as he could. He's more expensive and older than Kruger, so he had to get as much as he could. The Blackhawks couldn't meet his demands in his time frame. So, he found a team that could. Be well. But the fact that Kruger probably could have gotten double his salary, and maybe more, but opted to stay with the Hawks is pretty incredible.

 

My point with all of this isn't to prove you are wrong. Because you aren't wrong. But you aren't right either. And neither am I. Johns could be awesome and we could regret that trade. Sharp may score 40 or he may show his age. Dano might never pan out to be anything. Or he may be 75% of what Saad was. We could go through this with ALL of our players. So, let's just not. The Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 years and are poised to do it again in the next few. That's pretty incredible and Stan deserves credit for it.

 

One more thing. Sure Bickell's contract sucks now. I think we can all agree on that. But think of this...when he gets traded or sent down, there is so much depth, I wouldn't feel nervous about who would take his place. And honestly, other than Rundblad, I don't worry about the D depth either. Sure there are some green d-men in Svedberg, Pokka and Gustaffson, but one of those three should be able to step up when called upon.

 

Whew.

This is a great post and I appreciate the time you took to write this. I just feel like Stan is a top ten GM but there are certainly better ones.

[LDF]

This is a great post and I appreciate the time you took to write this. I just feel like Stan is a top ten GM but there are certainly better ones.

 

and i will give bow all the credit for overcoming this obstacle.

 

can't freaking wait for the season to start.

[CanOfCorn]

yes he can when, and remember when i said i wasn't here at the time, many in the hockey world thought his contract was an over payment.

 

ref the bold, bowman has to be aware of all of that , he has the highest position in any hockey org outside president. a gm can not be taken unaware or if he is, he will be replaced.

 

Of course, it was an overpayment, but they just came off of a Stanley Cup. Immediately, that puts your players, if you want to keep them, at a higher premium. There was no reason to believe that Bickell wouldn't improve the next season. In fact, most thought the playoffs were a jumping off point. AND, if I remember correctly, he even took a lower contract with the Hawks because he wanted to stay. I believe there were bigger contracts out there.

 

So, who is a better GM? I can't answer that. There's really no such thing as the BEST GM. Even a blind squirrel sometimes gets a nut. But overall, Stan took a cap-strapped team from Tallon, re-made it TWICE, and won Stanley Cups. I'll even say the 2010 SC should be more on Tallon because they were mostly his players. I will agree, Stan is top 10. I would even say top 5. But he, just like every single person that has had the title GM, makes mistakes.