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white Sox willing to part with Alexei Ramirez


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I am pretty much in Matt's camp. Unless someone is going to acquire Ramirez because they are going to give us some form of chip that is worth while, then I think we are best suited to keep him and see if he improves. If he plays the 2nd half of the year like his past, you then have the option on a guy to keep. If he doesn't, he's gone anyway. Unless of course org sees value in giving other guys opportunity (even if they really aren't deserving) and understand that our defense will be far worse (which can hurt young pitchers development as well).

 

I think our upside is you see if its just a bad couple months for Alexei and hope that he gets on a hot streak and all of a sudden at the end of July someone is saying, yep, that is Alexei. We need that guy, he's played the past month like the Alexei of old and now he has some value (obviously not top 100 value...which he probably had this time last year...but to the point where the benefit from trading him is at least worth it vs. just dumping him because). We still need to find a SS next year and Alexei on a cheaper deal (not picking up the option but signing him for less) might be the best option.

 

Seems like the defensive issues are mental vs. physical and it might be those struggles are then carrying to the plate as well.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 03:46 PM)
Oh yea, every organization sends someone out before the trade deadline and says "We are willing to part with this player"

 

That's not the point... it's just a random statement out of left field.

 

Isn't credible in anyway...

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QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 05:18 PM)
That's not the point... it's just a random statement out of left field.

 

Isn't credible in anyway...

I see what you mean harkness. The Sox "willing to part" with a player that has regressed as badly as Alexei has sounds more like "wanting to part". IMHO of course. :)

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 06:10 PM)
I am pretty much in Matt's camp. Unless someone is going to acquire Ramirez because they are going to give us some form of chip that is worth while, then I think we are best suited to keep him and see if he improves. If he plays the 2nd half of the year like his past, you then have the option on a guy to keep. If he doesn't, he's gone anyway. Unless of course org sees value in giving other guys opportunity (even if they really aren't deserving) and understand that our defense will be far worse (which can hurt young pitchers development as well).

 

I think our upside is you see if its just a bad couple months for Alexei and hope that he gets on a hot streak and all of a sudden at the end of July someone is saying, yep, that is Alexei. We need that guy, he's played the past month like the Alexei of old and now he has some value (obviously not top 100 value...which he probably had this time last year...but to the point where the benefit from trading him is at least worth it vs. just dumping him because). We still need to find a SS next year and Alexei on a cheaper deal (not picking up the option but signing him for less) might be the best option.

 

Seems like the defensive issues are mental vs. physical and it might be those struggles are then carrying to the plate as well.

I think there's a real problem contradiction in this idea. If you're holding Alexei through the end of the year and hoping he improves...but you also say "not picking up his option". If you're not picking up his option, there's no reason not to trade the guy and try to turn him into something...anything, that can help this team long term, even a couple million dollars.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 11:44 PM)
I think there's a real problem contradiction in this idea. If you're holding Alexei through the end of the year and hoping he improves...but you also say "not picking up his option". If you're not picking up his option, there's no reason not to trade the guy and try to turn him into something...anything, that can help this team long term, even a couple million dollars.

 

 

Two million dollars in today's baseball world is chump change. I think regardless of the end result you have to pick up his option or you have lost a potential good rebounding player, who could bring a good return if you decide to trade him

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 06:49 PM)
Two million dollars in today's baseball world is chump change. I think regardless of the end result you have to pick up his option or you have lost a potential good rebounding player, who could bring a good return if you decide to trade him

I think there is absolutely zero chance they will pick up his option given his performance in the first half of this season.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 07:24 PM)
Agree but I wouldn't rule out a return on a very cheap one year deal.

And there's no reason why that can't happen even if he's traded to save a little bit or bring back a wild card player like we did with some of our garbage last year.

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QUOTE (Mike F. @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 12:17 AM)
Team I'm pretty sure. The Sox would be crazy to pick up his option.

What scares me is that Hahn will try to re-negotiate his contract, waive the options and give him two more years at slightly smaller amount. Then, we'll have similar comments to make next year.

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If you read this article about Sandberg and are willing to accept they're pretty similar in their styles...look at the problems with the Phillies and the White Sox, you will see a lot of parallels with the current Ventura/White Sox debacle.

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/philli...t_Phillies.html

 

The only difference is the Cubs passed over Sandberg twice, the Hoosiers passed over Alford, etc. They didnt want to be put in the position to fire a hugely popular former player.

Edited by caulfield12
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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 02:35 AM)
I wouldn't rule it out when they don't have a replacement. That's why players like Flowers are still here.

They could find a replacement with similar performance level for a lot less. Stephen Drew is playing for $5 million this year for the Yankees, he stinks, but he's still outperforming Alexei. Asdrubal Cabrera, $7.5 million, equally crappy. Jimmy Rollins is a FA, equally crappy. Other guys like Mike Aviles or Sean Rodriguez who could play there part time along with someone from our system to work them into the slot should be available as well. $5 million or less will likely improve on what Alexei is doing this year.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 07:30 AM)
If you read this article about Sandberg and are willing to accept they're pretty similar in their styles...look at the problems with the Phillies and the White Sox, you

 

The only difference is the Cubs passed over Sandberg twice, the Hoosiers passed over Alford, etc. They didnt want to be put in the position to fire a hugely popular former player.

And they were smart for not hiring their heroes.

And it's worse with the Sox because the org. and fan base does so much hero worshiping that practically every player who played a while and was productive is revered to some extent.

It also contributes to the Sox being overly insular.

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http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/6/26/8852...uld-double-down

 

Trade entire minor league system and Garcia for Todd Frazier.

 

Danks for Brandon Phillips.

 

Sign Cespedes for $110 million.

 

Sign Samardzija for $90 million.

 

Decline Alexei, put Sanchez at SS.

 

 

Surely, that will all work out well. Still no catcher, despite all the new revenues being spent that materialized out of thin air.

Edited by caulfield12
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 09:13 AM)
http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/6/26/8852...uld-double-down

 

Trade entire minor league system and Garcia for Todd Frazier.

 

Danks for Brandon Phillips.

 

Sign Cespedes for $110 million.

 

Sign Samardzija for $90 million.

 

Decline Alexei, put Sanchez at SS.

 

 

Surely, that will all work out well. Still no catcher, despite all the new revenues being spent that materialized out of thin air.

 

How is this any better? Phillips is a declining veteran who will suck once he gets in the AL and to this team just like every other player we get. Frazier will be 30 next year and will also be coming from the NL. Any player who comes here will more than likely suck until we change what we have internally (front office, coaching, minor league coaching, etc.)

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 09:26 AM)
http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/6/24/8837...could-be-bolder

 

Article looking at Alexei Ramirez and Cabrera, bat speed, the #2 spot and Ventura's "philosophy."

I think his philosophy is trying to find someone who will do well in the 2 hole. Except for Abreu and LaRoche he has tried just about everyone except the catchers and Sanchez. I think he is hoping it could spark something like it did Fisk in 1983 where I am sure if all these numbers were around back then there would have been many calls for his release before moving there.

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 09:04 AM)
I think his philosophy is trying to find someone who will do well in the 2 hole. Except for Abreu and LaRoche he has tried just about everyone except the catchers and Sanchez. I think he is hoping it could spark something like it did Fisk in 1983 where I am sure if all these numbers were around back then there would have been many calls for his release before moving there.

 

So basically the managers back then were better off?

 

Wasn't LaRussa one of the first to start analyzing advanced statistics on his own...all those index cards that he kept?

 

Fisk attributed his renaissance to the warm weather and the higher place in the batting order. ''Just knowing where you are going to be in the lineup every day helps,'' he said, ''and batting second keeps you aware. You are faced with a lot of situations.'' Previously, he was in the lower third of the batting order.

 

Source nytimes.com

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 11:26 AM)
So basically the managers back then were better off?

 

Wasn't LaRussa one of the first to start analyzing advanced statistics on his own...all those index cards that he kept?

 

Fisk attributed his renaissance to the warm weather and the higher place in the batting order. ''Just knowing where you are going to be in the lineup every day helps,'' he said, ''and batting second keeps you aware. You are faced with a lot of situations.'' Previously, he was in the lower third of the batting order.

 

Source nytimes.com

If Robin Ventura put a catcher hitting about .175 fifty or sixty games imto the season, into the 2 hole with a team struggling, he would be called a moron. Ventura is trying to fimd a two hole hitter. Melky, Alexei, Beckham, Gillaspie, Shuck, Avi have all hit secomd. What the hell else is he supposed to do?

 

 

Why don't you just tell us what the correct philosophy is and who the guy batting secomd should be.

 

At this point he is tryimg to find something that will work. Nothing has as of yet, but he is still trying. That "philosophy" seems pretty sound.

Edited by Dick Allen
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