Quickest fix for a return to postseason?

[LDF]

 

i will continue to say this. with all the owner's insipid, amateurish and inept meddling, this team will not get better.

[The Ginger Kid]

"Winning Ugly" "Good Guys Wear Black" "The Kids Can Play" "All In" and now, "F the Fans" #ThanksJerry

[kitekrazy]

I think it is an anomaly as well. There is no reason in 2016 this team cannot get back to the 2014 success they achieved..........................

 

POST OF THE WEEK!

[kitekrazy]

"The short definition of insanity".

 

Watching this team will do that to you.

[flavum]

Watching this team will do that to you.

 

I'm listening to the postgame show. I must be nuts.

[caulfield12]

I'm listening to the postgame show. I must be nuts.

 

 

And what was Rongey's argument this time?

 

It happened too fast to react, you have to trust your "aces" to get themselves out of difficult situations, you can't use your best reliever in a tie game on the road in the bottom of the 9th, etc.? Cabrera and Eaton are coming around and looking like the players they were supposed to be for us in April...

Edited June 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[harkness99]

Post season?

 

1. Manager should have been gone even before this year TBH.

2 Stop signing old retread Left Handed DH's.

3. Don't over spend on bullpen.

4. Get Danks out of here fast.

5. Kenny Williams... grab some bench.

6. Horrible 3b/2B... Gordon great on D can't hit.

 

 

I'll start with those.

[Vance Law]

Some interesting thoughts in here.

 

If most every player managed some semblance of normal to good, this team could have contended. Obviously that didn't happen with most of the position players cratering, Shark's struggles, Danks being Danks.

 

Good news is that the pitching is pretty much set for the foreseeable years (unless there's a rash of injuries) with Erik Johnson and Fulmer likely moving into the rotation within the next year, plus guys like Nate Jones, Crain, Montas and Danish who'll filter into the bullpen or potentially rotation if things break well. If we end up with a surplus of rotation guys a couple of years from now, flip one (maybe Quintana) for a position in need.

 

I think we can assume Abreu, Eaton, Avi, and Melky are here next year. You'd hope you could get some approximation of an average second baseman out of Micah, Sanchez, or Saladino. I'd like to see them shop LaRoche in July. Should be able to get something worthwhile with his year and a half remaining. Open up the DH spot and have Avi, Melky, Abreu cycle through there. Bring up Trayce, play him around the outfield and see if we have anything there. Obviously move Shark. Hopefully get a young starting catcher or 3B and plug him in for the rest of the season. Dump Alexei, Bonifacio to whoever you can.

 

In the offseason there will be money to spend filling maybe a couple of black holes (3B or SS). In 2017 there's more money available with Danks gone and hopefully Tim Anderson is ready. By then we'll know whether or not Avi is our right fielder and if anyone is our second baseman.

[SCCWS]

Some interesting thoughts in here.

 

If most every player managed some semblance of normal to good, this team could have contended. Obviously that didn't happen with most of the position players cratering, Shark's struggles, Danks being Danks.

 

Good news is that the pitching is pretty much set for the foreseeable years (unless there's a rash of injuries) with Erik Johnson and Fulmer likely moving into the rotation within the next year, plus guys like Nate Jones, Crain, Montas and Danish who'll filter into the bullpen or potentially rotation if things break well. If we end up with a surplus of rotation guys a couple of years from now, flip one (maybe Quintana) for a position in need.

 

I think we can assume Abreu, Eaton, Avi, and Melky are here next year. You'd hope you could get some approximation of an average second baseman out of Micah, Sanchez, or Saladino. I'd like to see them shop LaRoche in July. Should be able to get something worthwhile with his year and a half remaining. Open up the DH spot and have Avi, Melky, Abreu cycle through there. Bring up Trayce, play him around the outfield and see if we have anything there. Obviously move Shark. Hopefully get a young starting catcher or 3B and plug him in for the rest of the season. Dump Alexei, Bonifacio to whoever you can.

 

In the offseason there will be money to spend filling maybe a couple of black holes (3B or SS). In 2017 there's more money available with Danks gone and hopefully Tim Anderson is ready. By then we'll know whether or not Avi is our right fielder and if anyone is our second baseman.

 

Doubt you get a catcher for Shark. I think you get a solid prospect like an OF or 2B. Q would bring a Catcher+ in offseason.

 

[caulfield12]

Doubt you get a catcher for Shark. I think you get a solid prospect like an OF or 2B. Q would bring a Catcher+ in offseason.

 

 

I would hope so, he's a TOP FIVE WAR LHP for the entire major leagues since 2012, ahead of even Bumgarner and Lester.

 

The absolute decrepitude of our defense is making him look like an "average" pitcher, and our offense's lack of run support is making it nearly impossible for him to get some quality wins and build back his confidence to 2012-14 levels.

 

Now every GM knows this, but they are what's depressing his value a bit.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I can't give you specific names but I am CONVINCED fully my plan of keeping Sale, Q, Rodon, and our new draftee pitcher to go with Abreu and A. Garcia (I guess he's a fine prospect still) and trading all the pieces Hahn acquired last offseason is our best bet for immediate success. Those are a lot of bodies to trade and I'll leave it to him to fix the problems with those bodies as trade bait. Our ONLY hope is to ride what could be a top of the line rotation to the top.

It would help if we could get in another division though. Sox are patsies to division foes in Central.

 

So:

 

1. Keep good players

2. Replace bad players

 

I think you're onto something, greg.

[LDF]

I would hope so, he's a TOP FIVE WAR LHP for the entire major leagues since 2012, ahead of even Bumgarner and Lester.

 

The absolute decrepitude of our defense is making him look like an "average" pitcher, and our offense's lack of run support is making it nearly impossible for him to get some quality wins and build back his confidence to 2012-14 levels.

 

Now every GM knows this, but they are what's depressing his value a bit.

 

imho, i think the value of Shark is still high. but other teams will play hard ball to low ball the sox in any trade.

[caulfield12]

imho, i think the value of Shark is still high. but other teams will play hard ball to low ball the sox in any trade.

 

 

Well, my specific comment was on Quintana's value...

 

As far Shark goes, the market will be set with Cueto/Hamels/Chapman, and then Samardzija and Kazmir (if the A's/Beane decide to trade him).

 

Because of the asking prices out there on those first three, Samardzija will become a lot more attractive, IMO.

 

It's always a case of supply and demand, and, other than the K and BB numbers with Jeff, everyone in baseball understands how bad the White Sox have been defensively and can look at all the fip/dip/drs data and reach their own conclusions about what's going on with his 2015 season (with the move to a tougher league/division and smaller parks being another element of his statistical slide).

 

 

[LDF]

 

i can see the sox selling on Shark, if the deal is there.

 

but i don't see valuable player coming back. i don't see signing a FA, esp if it requires giving up a draft pick as comp.

 

so, seriously....... how will the sox fix the holes???

[Dick Allen]

The quickest fix will be several players returning to their former levels of play. It isn't so crazy it will happen.

[Dunt]

i can see the sox selling on Shark, if the deal is there.

 

but i don't see valuable player coming back. i don't see signing a FA, esp if it requires giving up a draft pick as comp.

 

so, seriously....... how will the sox fix the holes???

 

Then you dont trade him? I dont understand why everyone feels like the Sox should be receiving nothing for him. They will get a good prospect or two or have a comp pick.

[caulfield12]

The quickest fix will be several players returning to their former levels of play. It isn't so crazy it will happen.

 

 

And we waited for Dunn and Danks to do just that....and, are still waiting.

 

Even with Cabrera and Eaton hitting much better, this team is still fundamentally-flawed. With those players rising, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Avi are correspondingly falling, so we're still not doing anything much besides treading water.

 

If it's not the bullpen, it's the defense...if it's not the offense, it's the base running.

 

We can fix one wall of the foundation, but the whole thing will collapse eventually and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

 

And I'm not even sure who we are waiting on NOW that we can expect to return us to greater glory? Alexei Ramirez? Samardzija? Quintana? Beckham? Sanchez? Gillaspie? Flowers? Robertson/Duke?

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

And we waited for Dunn and Danks to do just that....and, are still waiting.

 

Even with Cabrera and Eaton hitting much better, this team is still fundamentally-flawed. With those players rising, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Avi are correspondingly falling, so we're still not doing anything much besides treading water.

 

If it's not the bullpen, it's the defense...if it's not the offense, it's the base running.

 

We can fix one wall of the foundation, but the whole thing will collapse eventually and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

 

And I'm not even sure who we are waiting on NOW that we can expect to return us to greater glory? Alexei Ramirez? Samardzija? Quintana? Beckham? Sanchez? Gillaspie? Flowers? Robertson/Duke?

You love the Royals, the Cubs, the Astros, the Pirates, probably the Rays. A couple things those teams have in common are they haven't won anything for 30 years and they had to be very bad a very long time to get where they are at. The White Sox have been bad for 3 years, and people here can't take it. They tried to win this year, but the rebuild on the fly is still in order. They did surrender a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and sent some prospects to Oakland. (Not to much whining about Semien lately) But unless you are in JR's will, the rebuild is still on. They do have a plan. Some of it is going to hinge on some of their players playing up to their capabilities.

[Thad Bosley]

You love the Royals, the Cubs, the Astros, the Pirates, probably the Rays. A couple things those teams have in common are they haven't won anything for 30 years and they had to be very bad a very long time to get where they are at. The White Sox have been bad for 3 years, and people here can't take it. They tried to win this year, but the rebuild on the fly is still in order. They did surrender a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and sent some prospects to Oakland. (Not to much whining about Semien lately) But unless you are in JR's will, the rebuild is still on. They do have a plan. Some of it is going to hinge on some of their players playing up to their capabilities.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean - "they have a plan". When don't they have a plan? Didn't they have a plan in '09? '11? Last year? "They", meaning the brain trust comprising Jerry, Kenny and Rick, always have a plan. The problem is the track record with their co-developed plans. It's not very good. Their "plans" have amounted to just two trips to the postseason in 13 seasons of working together as a team and executing their plans. So when you say "they have a plan" as a way of somewhat encouraging us to be optimistic about the future, it's a bit of a hard sell, unfortunately. Again, given the collective track record of this particular management team.

[LittleHurt05]

The quickest fix will be several players returning to their former levels of play. It isn't so crazy it will happen.

 

So the difference between a 70-win team and a 90-win team is a couple aging veterans returning to their career norms? Color me skeptical.

[LDF]

Then you dont trade him? I dont understand why everyone feels like the Sox should be receiving nothing for him. They will get a good prospect or two or have a comp pick.

 

exactly, a comp is just as good instead of receiving castoff prospects the other team don't want.

[SCCWS]

 

Heard last night on a Boston Roundtable with some of their media that Swihart will probably be the young catcher they offer for starting pitching in offseason. I would do Q for Swihart, Bradley Jr. + a lower prospect. But I am concerned getting Bradley could be a problem if he hits in Boston now that he got called up.

[Eminor3rd]

And we waited for Dunn and Danks to do just that....and, are still waiting.

 

Even with Cabrera and Eaton hitting much better, this team is still fundamentally-flawed. With those players rising, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Avi are correspondingly falling, so we're still not doing anything much besides treading water.

 

If it's not the bullpen, it's the defense...if it's not the offense, it's the base running.

 

We can fix one wall of the foundation, but the whole thing will collapse eventually and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

 

And I'm not even sure who we are waiting on NOW that we can expect to return us to greater glory? Alexei Ramirez? Samardzija? Quintana? Beckham? Sanchez? Gillaspie? Flowers? Robertson/Duke?

 

So Dunn declined, therefore no White Sox players will ever bounce back.

 

(Danks doesn;t count, his shoulder was ruined and no one thought he was bouncing back. Or at least no one should have)

[Balta1701]

So Dunn declined, therefore no White Sox players will ever bounce back.

A more general lesson that might be applicable to the White Sox and to other teams this offseason, and in other recent offseasons, is that it is very difficult to rebuild through the free agent market by paying for full-priced, multi-year talent. Especially if you don't have the roster to carry your team without that person.

[kitekrazy]

A more general lesson that might be applicable to the White Sox and to other teams this offseason, and in other recent offseasons, is that it is very difficult to rebuild through the free agent market by paying for full-priced, multi-year talent. Especially if you don't have the roster to carry your team without that person.

 

This cycle will have to repeat until they fix the farm. Trading bad players only expands AAA with maybe some hope one of them will be lightning in a bottle.