Quickest fix for a return to postseason?

[Balta1701]

This cycle will have to repeat until they fix the farm. Trading bad players only expands AAA with maybe some hope one of them will be lightning in a bottle.

Problem is - signing big-money free agents actually hurts the team's ability to fix the farm. It sets us up to trade pieces from the farm for guys near FA because "we signed all these guys now we need to fill these last holes", and it costs draft picks and money.

 

Until we're ready to "expand AAA and look for lightning in a bottle" for a few years while letting the draft do its job...we're going to repeat this cycle...in that we're going to keep utterly failing.

[LDF]

Problem is - signing big-money free agents actually hurts the team's ability to fix the farm. It sets us up to trade pieces from the farm for guys near FA because "we signed all these guys now we need to fill these last holes", and it costs draft picks and money.

 

Until we're ready to "expand AAA and look for lightning in a bottle" for a few years while letting the draft do its job...we're going to repeat this cycle...in that we're going to keep utterly failing.

 

the thing is, i would normally agree with you on this point, but lets look at the longest fa signing. 3 yrs. normal fa signing would have been 4-5 yrs. now that would hamper the club in doing something to rebuild.

 

but 1 contract for 3 yrs and that can be easily fixed.

[Vance Law]

Doubt you get a catcher for Shark. I think you get a solid prospect like an OF or 2B. Q would bring a Catcher+ in offseason.

 

We gave up Phegley (along with Semien, Bassit, Ravelo) for Shark. And Phegley has been better than every White Sox position player including Abreu (according to Fangraphs).

[caulfield12]

So Dunn declined, therefore no White Sox players will ever bounce back.

 

(Danks doesn;t count, his shoulder was ruined and no one thought he was bouncing back. Or at least no one should have)

 

 

The point isn't those particular players, or Melky Cabrera...it's that the White Sox simply can't afford to make mistakes or suffer major injuries because they're not in that group that can eat major contracts and live to tell about it.

 

For one reason, financially, for a second reason, the lack of major league ready replacements residing in AA/AAA.

 

It seems recently we're always "stuck" with players who we have to keep sending out there to take their lumps...which has a corresponding negative reaction cycle from the fanbase as they become cynical and start to give up hope those players will ever amount to what they were initially billed as.

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

We gave up Phegley (along with Semien, Bassit, Ravelo) for Shark. And Phegley has been better than every White Sox position player including Abreu (according to Fangraphs).

 

But now you are getting a 2 month rental. That lowers the value considerably. Besides his hitting, last I saw Phegley had the 2nd best % in throwing out base-stealers in AL. How ironic the Sox desperately need a catcher and they dumped him.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

But now you are getting a 2 month rental. That lowers the value considerably. Besides his hitting, last I saw Phegley had the 2nd best % in throwing out base-stealers in AL. How ironic the Sox desperately need a catcher and they dumped him.

 

 

They don't like Phegley's game-calling skills. He was never going to play for the Sox anymore.

[caulfield12]

They don't like Phegley's game-calling skills. He was never going to play for the Sox anymore.

 

 

Which makes it a bit ironic that the team with the best ERA in the AL has use for him, but the team with the 13th best ERA doesn't.

 

And, going by the game threads this season, there aren't very many fans of Tyler Flowers' or Geo's pitch calling, either.

 

 

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Which makes it a bit ironic that the team with the best ERA in the AL has use for him, but the team with the 13th best ERA doesn't.

 

And, going by the game threads this season, there aren't very many fans of Tyler Flowers' or Geo's pitch calling, either.

 

 

They are both good at pitch framing though Caulfield……..wasn't it you that pointed that out? Haha. I'm just giving you a hard time. Both are bad. I think Phegley is bad too though.

[2nd_city_saint787]

So the difference between a 70-win team and a 90-win team is a couple aging veterans returning to their career norms? Color me skeptical.

 

Might not be as crazy as it sounds. Last 10 games when Milky and Eaton have been hitting well they've started to score more runs. Had they nit coughed up 2 games late they very easily could have won 6 of their last 8.

 

If Avi gets it going again along with those 2 the offense will look even better.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Might not be as crazy as it sounds. Last 10 games when Milky and Eaton have been hitting well they've started to score more runs. Had they nit coughed up 2 games late they very easily could have won 6 of their last 8.

 

If Avi gets it going again along with those 2 the offense will look even better.

 

 

Yep. If they score 4 runs a game during that 0-8 stretch, they'd be something like 36-38 and the tone would be much different.

[caulfield12]

They are both good at pitch framing though Caulfield……..wasn't it you that pointed that out? Haha. I'm just giving you a hard time. Both are bad. I think Phegley is bad too though.

 

 

I think more than anything it was the rumors of Phegley being on the outs with management, as he was perceived as having an "attitude" by some...of course, looking at his statistics with the White Sox, it's not like he was owed anything. On the other hand, any catcher in baseball "stuck" behind Tyler Flowers would understandably be a bit frustrated.

 

Pitch framing is very important/underrated, but it's hard to see what other defensive facets Tyler excels in...so yeah, it's kind of amusing that this one statistical factor which really didn't exist on the radar screen five seasons ago is now what's keeping him as a major league starter (well, 60% of the games, at least).

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Yep. If they score 4 runs a game during that 0-8 stretch, they'd be something like 36-38 and the tone would be much different.

 

 

This game can go back and forth....

 

If they hadn't had so many comeback victories when down 2-3-4 runs early, only to rally late. I think there were at least 5-6 of those examples, more than the White Sox probably had in 2013 and 2014 combined.

 

The pythagorean number for expected wins and losses being way out of whack.

 

ERA and BA is the bottom 3 in the AL, the worst defense (by DRS), one of the worst bullpens, the worst baserunning/near the lowest percentage of opposing baserunners thrown out, etc.

 

 

OTOH, the sheer talent level of Sale, Abreu, Rodon, Quintana, etc., makes it impossible for them to be the absolute worst, compared to the Phillies or Brewers.

 

 

If any offense could consistently score exactly 4 runs per game in this run-averse environment, they'd probably be a 108 win team. The problem is most teams will score 6, 2, 0 and 8 to get to those 16 runs, leaving them the likely losers of two games unless they're getting incredible starting pitching, defense and a lockdown closer nailing down games.

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Might not be as crazy as it sounds. Last 10 games when Milky and Eaton have been hitting well they've started to score more runs. Had they nit coughed up 2 games late they very easily could have won 6 of their last 8.

 

If Avi gets it going again along with those 2 the offense will look even better.

I'm totally unconvinced.

Our last loss to Detroit describes this team perfectly. Up 4-0 in the eighth, Detroit wakes up and simply scores 5 before making six measly outs and we lose ... again. This team in its current form blows. Even if hitting got a little better, then some other aspect would fall apart. Time to blow it up. Need whole new coaching staff next season and tons of new players.

[LDF]

I'm totally unconvinced.

Our last loss to Detroit describes this team perfectly. Up 4-0 in the eighth, Detroit wakes up and simply scores 5 before making six measly outs and we lose ... again. This team in its current form blows. Even if hitting got a little better, then some other aspect would fall apart. Time to blow it up. Need whole new coaching staff next season and tons of new players.

 

i really don't know about the games the sox could have won, what, the last 6 games. all i know i disagree with your assessment that the last game was b/c det hitter woke up and won it.

 

while in that plain and simple sense of an allusion that on that game det was better. i do beg to differ, it is hard for the sox to win normally. it is equally hard to win, when the coaches are working against the team, a rp should have came in earlier.

[harfman77]

New ownership.

[LDF]

New ownership.

 

better yet, same owners..... let the board members step aside and let the new breed come in and run the team.

 

in other words, their children.

[harfman77]

better yet, same owners..... let the board members step aside and let the new breed come in and run the team.

 

in other words, their children.

 

Perhaps, I think that the incestual culture permeates throughout the organization. It is time for someone to come in that makes being competitive their top priority. I don't doubt that JR wants to win, but his loyalty to people in the organization and former players really gets in the way of running a successful franchise.

 

Buddy Bell should have been gone years ago, we are on our second go round with Doug Laumann. The approach to acquiring amateur hitting has been silly prioritizing batting practice power above all else.

 

RV was a good manager to have to hold the spot down while you are tearing apart the major league roster for a rebuild as a placeholder, but he is not the guy you want running the ship when you are serious about contending. But JR refuses to move on from guys like Bell, Laumann, Williams, and RV because they are part of his White Sox "family". Nowhere else in professional sports - other than maybe the 90's Clippers - do you see and owner accept such a state of mediocrity due to his familiarity with his front office. Yes, I know "but 2005" - which if you look at it they really tried to go for it in 2006 and failed miserably.

[LDF]

Perhaps, I think that the incestual culture permeates throughout the organization. It is time for someone to come in that makes being competitive their top priority. I don't doubt that JR wants to win, but his loyalty to people in the organization and former players really gets in the way of running a successful franchise.

 

Buddy Bell should have been gone years ago, we are on our second go round with Doug Laumann. The approach to acquiring amateur hitting has been silly prioritizing batting practice power above all else.

 

RV was a good manager to have to hold the spot down while you are tearing apart the major league roster for a rebuild as a placeholder, but he is not the guy you want running the ship when you are serious about contending. But JR refuses to move on from guys like Bell, Laumann, Williams, and RV because they are part of his White Sox "family". Nowhere else in professional sports - other than maybe the 90's Clippers - do you see and owner accept such a state of mediocrity due to his familiarity with his front office. Yes, I know "but 2005" - which if you look at it they really tried to go for it in 2006 and failed miserably.

 

there come a time when new blood needs to come in, to have a new sets of ideas, direction, values, and esp motivation. instead there is yrs of redundancy and owners muttering to among themselves on how those vicious fans have abandon them. not fully understanding, in today economy, fans are not going to pay to see crap.

 

furthermore, the owners have antiquated ideas as loyalty and friendship and forget about the business, esp when the old cliche comes from, friendship and business does not mix.

 

~~~~ edit - re bold.... i like it.

Edited June 30, 2015 by LDF