Relievers moving or moves coming?

[kitekrazy]

Well, it's an "issue" until they are able to trade some of these guys. Until, for example, they get rid of some of these contracts they signed last offseason, I'll expect that they'll think "oh we can just retool this on the fly this offseason" and then fail mightily while doing so....again.

 

What they get in return due to poor scouting will fail also, the exception might be a Coop'll fix em. Then that may last a year.

 

[caulfield12]

What they get in return due to poor scouting will fail also, the exception might be a Coop'll fix em. Then that may last a year.

 

Yeah, with the exception of Quintana, none of the fixes have lasted more than a year, unless you want to go all the way back to Contreras, Floyd, Danks, Jenks, Santos and Thornton.

 

Putnam is now getting closer to being more than a one year wonder....and less Humber/Noesi, or Politte/Hermanson in the reliever category, or basically everyone from 2012 (Santiago, Nate Jones and Reed the other exceptions).

 

But nobody's going to give you elite talent back for him, like Crain in 2012. He doesn't have brand-name recognition and he hardly ever breaks 88-89, so skeptics will always prefer to wait out expected regression.

 

That said, he has more value than Duke (due to contract status) and probably more than Petricka, although that's arguable.

Edited June 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[Whisox05]

Exactly. Unless we get rid of all the bums (in baseball sense) we acquired this offseason, the team will reek again next year. Simple retooling won't work. It's time for a huge firesale.

 

 

Yes that's smart. This team apparently can't develop players that well especially on the position side. They don't seem to be able to evaluate players well that they bring in. Most of the position players they bring in end up sucking for them. They get good players that do well other places and play like crap for them. I swear they could bring in Miguel Cabrera, Mike trout, or stanton and they would end up playing like crap. This team already has holes and you want to trade off all the players they got last year to create more holes and no one to fill them. Plus it's really going to make the organization look bad to trade off everyone you just got in the offseason and deter any future free agents from wanting to sign with them cause if they sign there and not play well they will try to dump them right away. If you want to try to fire sale then you might as well trade sale, Abreu and company and try to bring in as much talent as possible to try to build the team back up like the cubs did.

[greg775]

This team already has holes and you want to trade off all the players they got last year to create more holes and no one to fill them. Plus it's really going to make the organization look bad to trade off everyone you just got in the offseason and deter any future free agents from wanting to sign with them cause if they sign there and not play well they will try to dump them right away.

Hi Lifer. I'd like to respond. I disagree with your first sentence. My point is trading the guys they got last year won't create more holes. I want us to get guys like Colon, guys in the bigs or close to the bigs. I know the Royals would give us Colon and a minor leaguer or two for Shark. We're not catching them. Send them Shark ASAP!! Or Shark and Robertson, then they can trade Holland. Think about it. We trade Lexi for a big leaguer or somebody very close! I'm not creating more holes.

 

Your other point is well taken. But I think free agents aren't dumb. They'd still sign with us. Chicago's a great city and if they do decent, even a grade of B, we'd keep them. They're not stupid. They know LaRoche, Melky stink and Duke is expendable and Shark is just OK. They ain't dumb. Free agents still will come. If they are GOOD, they'd be Kings of Rush Street!

[GreenSox]

Why Guerra?

Because they aren't pitching him.

They should have given him the Carroll role at least. (still don't know why Carroll on the 25 - he's like Axe). Guerra hasn't been allowed to pitch much, so he's going. Wish he had - he was dominant in AAA.

 

I doubt you can really sell high on Putnam just yet...doesn't have much of a track record.

I'd definitely move Duke if someone wants to give value for him. Petricka too. He may invoke grounders, but they are smoked and he doesn't strike many out. Don't know why Danks hasn't been tried in the LH relief role. It would be nice to see if he can do it, which would give the double advantage of seeing if Erik Johnson can pitch in the majors.

Edited June 28, 2015 by GreenSox

[Thad Bosley]

With all of this talk about the Sox' inability to either draft and/or develop position players, what has Rick Hahn done since he became GM to address this issue? This was a known problem under Kenny's run as GM, but what has Hahn done to improve in this area? He obviously has left Bell and Laumann in their respective roles as the leaders of player development and scouting. But has he instructed either of those two to make any substantial changes either in personnel or philosophy? Because if he hasn't, then this notion that somehow the "Rick Hahn Era" is different than that of the "Kenny Williams Era" is a farce. Not one thing seems to have changed except for a couple of titles on the business cards.

[kitekrazy]

Exactly. Teams in playoff contention need a reliever who throws plenty of ground-balls and can strikeout quite a few hitters.

 

Putnam should bring back a solid prospect or two if the Sox decide to trade him.

 

How often has this worked in the past 10 year? This organization is bad at developing players or the scouting makes mistakes. Most likely they would get a pitcher out of it.

Teams with losing records trade out of weakness unless it involves a Chris Sale type player. How many deals happen like the Cubs got?

 

[caulfield12]

How often has this worked in the past 10 year? This organization is bad at developing players or the scouting makes mistakes. Most likely they would get a pitcher out of it.

Teams with losing records trade out of weakness unless it involves a Chris Sale type player. How many deals happen like the Cubs got?

 

Just Peavy.

 

Unless you want to put Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb in that same category...

 

[Balta1701]

Just Peavy.

 

Unless you want to put Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb in that same category...

And you're happy calling Avisail Garcia a success?

[Heads22]

And you're happy calling Avisail Garcia a success?

 

Devils advocate, but do you consider him a finished product?

[Quin]

I don't know why, but this article makes me feel like Danks is headed to the pen soon.

 

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/133...s-danks-skipped

[Balta1701]

Devils advocate, but do you consider him a finished product?

No, but the front office gambled a pretty penny this year on guys like him being ready to be major contributors to a competitive team, so that's a pretty major failure...and he's a first year arb-eligible person this year, so the clock on "turning him into a ballplayer worth keeping on your roster" is now running.

[Balta1701]

I've noticed a trend where you post on a topic and talk about how topic X is a major failure. You don't have answers to any of these said failures, but you do acknowledge that they are failures over and over again.

I don't know if Avisail Garcia can be turned into a successful ballplayer or not, but this is the mess the white sox are in. They have a roster no where near strong enough to compete even for a wild card even with significant extra spending and that isn't going to change any time soon.

 

First they need to overhaul their player scouting. They can't keep acquiring these high risk players who don't contribute on defense and have poor approaches at the plate unless they develop a newly-found ability to coach those guys into hitters. That's on both scouting and development. They're doing terrible at it.

 

Beyond that, they need to start over. Get rid of as much veteran payroll as they can. These guys are literally useless to this franchise. If all they turn into is guys who are relievers for Charlotte in 3 years, that's ok, it's better than what we have now.

 

Next, they need to acquire as many Avisail Garcia like guys as they can and give them playing time as long as they're cheap. Guys with talent but who will need several years, at the least, to see if they can learn how to become big leaguers. The key for guys like this is "don't rely on them in the least". If they put up sub .700 OPS numbers for multiple years in a row, you cast them aside when they become expensive, and maybe you keep the solid contributor or two.

 

Meanwhile, continue making picks at the top of the draft, and for gosh sake please don't give away any more 2nd and 3rd round picks for garbage like what we brought in this year until we actually have a roster around them.

 

Stop trying for the quick fix, realize what kind of mess we've made, and act like it. The way out requires patience, coaching, and rebuilding the organization up and down. No more quick fixes. No more gambling $50 million payroll increases on highly questionable players.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know why, but this article makes me feel like Danks is headed to the pen soon.

 

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/133...s-danks-skipped

 

Realistically, there is plenty of room for the Sox to make some bullpen trades in the next couple of weeks. In fact I would be shocked if deals don't happen there, even if the team rebounds. They need the roster spots, and have depth. TBH, a deal to the Cubs for some of their second or third tier prospects makes a whole of sense.

 

[caulfield12]

I don't know if Avisail Garcia can be turned into a successful ballplayer or not, but this is the mess the white sox are in. They have a roster no where near strong enough to compete even for a wild card even with significant extra spending and that isn't going to change any time soon.

 

First they need to overhaul their player scouting. They can't keep acquiring these high risk players who don't contribute on defense and have poor approaches at the plate unless they develop a newly-found ability to coach those guys into hitters. That's on both scouting and development. They're doing terrible at it.

 

Beyond that, they need to start over. Get rid of as much veteran payroll as they can. These guys are literally useless to this franchise. If all they turn into is guys who are relievers for Charlotte in 3 years, that's ok, it's better than what we have now.

 

Next, they need to acquire as many Avisail Garcia like guys as they can and give them playing time as long as they're cheap. Guys with talent but who will need several years, at the least, to see if they can learn how to become big leaguers. The key for guys like this is "don't rely on them in the least". If they put up sub .700 OPS numbers for multiple years in a row, you cast them aside when they become expensive, and maybe you keep the solid contributor or two.

 

Meanwhile, continue making picks at the top of the draft, and for gosh sake please don't give away any more 2nd and 3rd round picks for garbage like what we brought in this year until we actually have a roster around them.

 

Stop trying for the quick fix, realize what kind of mess we've made, and act like it. The way out requires patience, coaching, and rebuilding the organization up and down. No more quick fixes. No more gambling $50 million payroll increases on highly questionable players.

 

 

Another thing is that with the right defensive set-up, a fundamentally-sound middle infield and the players all buying in...you can turn guys like Jason Grilli or Mark Melancon into quasi-elite closers that aren't very expensive.

 

Hahn got desperate and overreacted to the 2013 bullpen problems the same way KW overreacted to 2007 and went out and spent a lot of money on Dotel, MacDougal and Linebrink (compared to past years).

 

While Robertson/Duke gave them a boost and helped keep them floating the first 6 weeks or so, the roof was bound to cave in at some point with the general direction of the entire roster pulling everyone but Sale down.

Edited June 29, 2015 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

Devils advocate, but do you consider him a finished product?

 

 

I guess the real question is does this organization have the ability to improve him.

 

[kitekrazy]

I've noticed a trend where you post on a topic and talk about how topic X is a major failure. You don't have answers to any of these said failures, but you do acknowledge that they are failures over and over again.

 

It's not his job to do that. It seems evident in this organization that the same people have not move this organization forward. The solution is to replace people until you get better results and it's not going to happen anytime soon.