Sick of hearing...

[WKamm]

I'm sick of hearing how RV is not a good motivator. These are professional athletes who got to where they are by being motivated. They don't need someone else to motivate them.

[LDF]

I'm sick of hearing how RV is not a good motivator. These are professional athletes who got to where they are by being motivated. They don't need someone else to motivate them.

motivation or not, players are not going to perform when they have no faith in the coach.

 

they, the players need a person who can coach, can managed a team.

[caulfield12]

Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard?

 

It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame.

 

Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument.

Edited June 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard?

 

It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame.

 

Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument.

 

and while that is true, there are some trace of doubt as to who is to be blame.

[Jerksticks]

Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard?

 

It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame.

 

Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument.

Blame? There's nobody to blame. Just too many black holes still it seems. I'm sure Dr. Hahn will be operating soon.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard?

 

It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame.

 

Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument.

 

While I hate to say it because generally I'm an optimist but the whole organization is moribund and 2005 seems eons ago. We got our one in 75 years now it's back to being the laughingstocks the Sox have always been.

[flavum]

Ventura had to be convinced to take the job. All of his teams have underperformed whether they were trying to win or not over the last three seasons.

 

This isn't a decision that's real difficult. I'm not saying do it now as some last ditch effort to save the season. Actually, if they wait until October 5th and let him step aside on his own, that's fine. But there is no question Ventura cannot be here in 2016, and hopefully the entire coaching staff goes too, including Cooper.

 

Time for a change, and hope things go better with the next regime.

 

And even better, Kenny actually takes some blame with consequences, and he resigns.

[caulfield12]

Ventura had to be convinced to take the job. All of his teams have underperformed whether they were trying to win or not over the last three seasons.

 

This isn't a decision that's real difficult. I'm not saying do it now as some last ditch effort to save the season. Actually, if they wait until October 5th and let him step aside on his own, that's fine. But there is no question Ventura cannot be here in 2016, and hopefully the entire coaching staff goes too, including Cooper.

 

Time for a change, and hope things go better with the next regime.

 

And even better, Kenny actually takes some blame with consequences, and he resigns.

 

 

Now you're really dreaming.

 

It would be like Stringer Bell admitting he was a naive mid-level regional drug dealer instead of an entrepreneur.

 

 

[Whisox05]

motivation or not, players are not going to perform when they have no faith in the coach.

 

they, the players need a person who can coach, can managed a team.

 

I'm sorry but these are grown men playing baseball and getting a hell of alot of money then most of us will ever see and there should be no excuses. They get to play a game that alot of kids dream to play in their lives. I'm sure we all aren't fully happy with our jobs or bosses but we put our big boy pants and go to work cause we need a paycheck and I'm sure anyone one of us would like to take their place in a heart beat.

[caulfield12]

I'm sorry but these are grown men playing baseball and getting a hell of alot of money then most of us will ever see and there should be no excuses. They get to play a game that alot of kids dream to play in their lives. I'm sure we all aren't fully happy with our jobs or bosses but we put our big boy pants and go to work cause we need a paycheck and I'm sure anyone one of us would like to take their place in a heart beat.

 

 

That said, it's always easier to replace managers, coaches and front office staff than being forced to trade off players for pennies on the dollar.

 

Whatever's bothering Alexei, whether it's just age catching up with him...or Minnie Minoso's death or family problems or whatever, we have to live with those excuses and try to make sense of them/rationalize...just like Adam Dunn's appendectomy in 2011 or health problems with one of his kids.

 

What's the alternative? To release/DFA all the players when they disappoint us?

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Now you're really dreaming.

 

It would be like Stringer Bell admitting he was a naive mid-level regional drug dealer instead of an entrepreneur.

 

This post is awesome on so many levels

[SCCWS]

I'm sorry but these are grown men playing baseball and getting a hell of alot of money then most of us will ever see and there should be no excuses. They get to play a game that alot of kids dream to play in their lives. I'm sure we all aren't fully happy with our jobs or bosses but we put our big boy pants and go to work cause we need a paycheck and I'm sure anyone one of us would like to take their place in a heart beat.

 

It is not the same. As you state, we need a paycheck. Most of them will get one regardless of how they perform. If you have a few bad months, you probably won't survive in your job. Many of them since the age of 22 or so have been doing very well financially. So it is a very different lifestyle than the average person has.

Then again, when we screw up at work, it hopefully does not get the same publicity as when they screw up. Imagine if you screw up at work tomorrow and your wife and kids get berated by the neighbors in your driveway on Tuesday.

[LittleHurt05]

It is not the same. As you state, we need a paycheck. Most of them will get one regardless of how they perform. If you have a few bad months, you probably won't survive in your job. Many of them since the age of 22 or so have been doing very well financially. So it is a very different lifestyle than the average person has.

Then again, when we screw up at work, it hopefully does not get the same publicity as when they screw up. Imagine if you screw up at work tomorrow and your wife and kids get berated by the neighbors in your driveway on Tuesday.

 

Well said. Also, other than a few younger players, they all have guaranteed contracts. Melky Cabrera gets $42 million whether he bats .148, .248, or .348. Motivation is one of the most important aspects of a professional sports coach.

 

[GreatScott82]

White Sox baseball, lack of accountability and 100% loyal to bad!

 

In all honesty, it starts at the very top. Until we get a new owner, or he shocks us all by making changes in upper management, this team will continue to lack a direction and be mediocre to bad.

[kitekrazy]

Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard?

 

It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame.

 

Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument.

 

They seem to find a lot of mentally weak ones and the ones they don't are home grown. No clutch, all choke.

 

[harkness99]

I certainly don't blame Robin for all of it... I love the guy's personality.

 

But coaching and winning is a fickle beast.. Robin just doesn't have "It".

 

It's a different thing for different people but you either win or you don't.

 

Robin will be gone sooner or later and out of coaching most likely.

 

I don't really blame him however... they pretty much forced him to do this and now he cares and doesn't want to fail.

 

They really messed it up and now Robin doesn't want it to be on him.

[The Ginger Kid]

Stop with the bulls*** reasons to fire RV, there's only one reason to fire him and that's because you can't fire 25 players. If he was making one ridiculous substitution after another, or running into outs with his stupid calls from the dugout or if guys were constantly out of position on defense then yes, by all means, the manager is leading to losses. But these guys are playing like horseshiit and that's why they're losing and that's why we want the manager fired. He's the boss. He's as close as we can get to firing some or all of the players. Motivation my ass. If you need to get motivated to play professional sports you're in the wrong career.

 

And ask yourself something: would Gillaspie, Flowers, Sanchez and Ramirez be STARTING on a winning team right now? Not likely. That's about half your lineup. I'd throw LaRoche in there if he hadn't finally started to heat up. And you might wonder whether or not Avi would be starting in RF on a winning team.

 

Fire Robin, don't fire Robin, who gives a s***. All it is is red meat to the fans and a complete "Who, me?" by management. How about firing Buddy Bell who has nothing down in the minors that's developed into MLB talent that can help right now? That'd be a nice start. And I'd take a long look at Doug Laumann too. Over 2 decades heading up scouting for the White Sox. Like what you see?

[harkness99]

Stop with the bulls*** reasons to fire RV, there's only one reason to fire him and that's because you can't fire 25 players. If he was making one ridiculous substitution after another, or running into outs with his stupid calls from the dugout or if guys were constantly out of position on defense then yes, by all means, the manager is leading to losses. But these guys are playing like horseshiit and that's why they're losing and that's why we want the manager fired. He's the boss. He's as close as we can get to firing some or all of the players. Motivation my ass. If you need to get motivated to play professional sports you're in the wrong career.

 

And ask yourself something: would Gillaspie, Flowers, Sanchez and Ramirez be STARTING on a winning team right now? Not likely. That's about half your lineup. I'd throw LaRoche in there if he hadn't finally started to heat up. And you might wonder whether or not Avi would be starting in RF on a winning team.

 

Fire Robin, don't fire Robin, who gives a s***. All it is is red meat to the fans and a complete "Who, me?" by management. How about firing Buddy Bell who has nothing down in the minors that's developed into MLB talent that can help right now? That'd be a nice start. And I'd take a long look at Doug Laumann too. Over 2 decades heading up scouting for the White Sox. Like what you see?

 

The Cardinals have massive injuries and a host of nobodys filling their lineup - yet they win. On paper our starting pitching looks superior.

 

Talent does matter but just thinking its all talent is no more enlightened then blaming it all on Robin.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by harkness

[greg775]

Stop with the bulls*** reasons to fire RV, there's only one reason to fire him and that's because you can't fire 25 players. If he was making one ridiculous substitution after another, or running into outs with his stupid calls from the dugout or if guys were constantly out of position on defense then yes, by all means, the manager is leading to losses. But these guys are playing like horseshiit and that's why they're losing and that's why we want the manager fired. He's the boss. He's as close as we can get to firing some or all of the players. Motivation my ass. If you need to get motivated to play professional sports you're in the wrong career.

 

And ask yourself something: would Gillaspie, Flowers, Sanchez and Ramirez be STARTING on a winning team right now? Not likely. That's about half your lineup. I'd throw LaRoche in there if he hadn't finally started to heat up. And you might wonder whether or not Avi would be starting in RF on a winning team.

 

Fire Robin, don't fire Robin, who gives a s***. All it is is red meat to the fans and a complete "Who, me?" by management. How about firing Buddy Bell who has nothing down in the minors that's developed into MLB talent that can help right now? That'd be a nice start. And I'd take a long look at Doug Laumann too. Over 2 decades heading up scouting for the White Sox. Like what you see?

 

That's a very good post. It should give all Robin haters something to think about if they read it. Robin is a little below average I feel, but like I've said a million times nobody could win with this collection of defensive misfits/lousy hitting/bad bullpenning stiffs.

I agree with you for the most part. I do agree Buddy Bell should be canned even before Robin.

[caulfield12]

It's really quite simple....who do you think is best prepared to adapt to a new paradigm shift in baseball and lead the White Sox to the World Series again?

 

 

KW?

Hahn?

Buddy Bell?

Robin Ventura?

Doug Laumann/Nick Capra?

 

The obvious answer is it's either Hahn or someone from outside the organization.

[Lemon_44]

I don't care what people say, players, people in general, respond to good leadership and the Sox don't have any. Whether it's a group of players or the manager/coaching staff, leadership makes a difference. Obviously, there are different leadership styles, and I'm not saying a guy has to be yelling all the time, but whatever the Sox currently have in place is not working.

 

If leadership qualities didn't matter, there would be no good, or bad, managers/coaches. You can take any sport and there's a reason certain guys are winners, Bill Parcells, Urban Meyer, Tony LaRussa, et al, and have won in multiple locations. Granted, you need talented players but a good leader gets the most out of that talent.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Lemon_44

[Y2Jimmy0]

I don't care what people say, players, people in general, respond to good leadership and the Sox don't have any. Whether it's a group of players or the manager/coaching staff, leadership makes a difference. Obviously, there are different leadership styles, and I'm not saying a guy has to be yelling all the time, but whatever the Sox currently have in place is not working.

 

If leadership qualities didn't matter, there would be no good, or bad, managers/coaches. You can take any sport and there's a reason certain guys are winners, Bill Parcells, Urban Meyer, Tony LaRussa, et al, and have won in multiple locations. Granted, you need talented players but a good leader gets the most out of that talent.

 

 

There is one overriding constant to being a really good coach though: they all have/had really good players.

[LDF]

I certainly don't blame Robin for all of it... I love the guy's personality.

 

But coaching and winning is a fickle beast.. Robin just doesn't have "It".

 

It's a different thing for different people but you either win or you don't.

 

Robin will be gone sooner or later and out of coaching most likely.

 

I don't really blame him however... they pretty much forced him to do this and now he cares and doesn't want to fail.

 

They really messed it up and now Robin doesn't want it to be on him.

 

i agree and that is the additional b/s that will come out of this. RV is going to get a black eye from this, whether he deserves it or not.

[LDF]

Stop with the bulls*** reasons to fire RV, there's only one reason to fire him and that's because you can't fire 25 players. If he was making one ridiculous substitution after another, or running into outs with his stupid calls from the dugout or if guys were constantly out of position on defense then yes, by all means, the manager is leading to losses. But these guys are playing like horseshiit and that's why they're losing and that's why we want the manager fired. He's the boss. He's as close as we can get to firing some or all of the players. Motivation my ass. If you need to get motivated to play professional sports you're in the wrong career.

 

And ask yourself something: would Gillaspie, Flowers, Sanchez and Ramirez be STARTING on a winning team right now? Not likely. That's about half your lineup. I'd throw LaRoche in there if he hadn't finally started to heat up. And you might wonder whether or not Avi would be starting in RF on a winning team.

 

Fire Robin, don't fire Robin, who gives a s***. All it is is red meat to the fans and a complete "Who, me?" by management. How about firing Buddy Bell who has nothing down in the minors that's developed into MLB talent that can help right now? That'd be a nice start. And I'd take a long look at Doug Laumann too. Over 2 decades heading up scouting for the White Sox. Like what you see?

that is the main point for me at least. sox management should start trying to fix it now. but they won't they will wait the season out.

 

if they did it now, who knows, maybe they will save some creditability and the season tickets, let alone individual tickets sales will not get that affected.

 

[caulfield12]

There is one overriding constant to being a really good coach though: they all have/had really good players.

 

 

And that's management's response to cover for Ventura.

 

That he overachieved and ALMOST won Manager of the Year in 2012.

 

The problem with this particular line of defense is that it also opens up the front office to even more questioning...if the talent level from a "near playoff" team in 2012 has degraded so badly, whose fault is that, then, precisely?