Avisail Garcia is Fool's Gold

[Chicago White Sox]

yup, we can't groom young hitters, haven't been able to in decades

 

this is a fundamental problem in this organization and it's actually pathetic that it hasn't been fixed yet, embarrassing really

I really think this idea gets exaggerated to some extent. Go ask the A's if we can develop young hitters. They'll say thanks for Semien & Phegley, unless you honestly believe they retaught them how to hit in spring training. IMO, our problem isn't primarily grooming young players, but rather taking too many athletes and not having a clue on how to teach them to be disciplined hitters. Developing hitters is obviously a weak-point of the system, not arguing that, but we don't take a lot of position players high in the draft and when we do they are usually of the toolsy/raw variety. The few times we've taken more polished hitters, we've been somewhat successful (still not great).

[caulfield12]

Heyward

 

Goodbye, $175 million or maybe even $200 million.

 

That's well beyond what we spent this offseason on LaRoche, Cabrera, Robertson, Samardzija (one year payroll addition), Bonifacio and Zach Duke combined.

 

The biggest problem is we're not playing in OLD Comiskey. If we had a huge outfield like Minnesota does, it would make more sense to spend millions on RF defense, but we're in a park that rewards offense first and foremost.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

 

Remember Avi spent 7 years in the minors and had over 2,400 PA. So he may be 24 in age but he spent a lot of time in the minors.

[Vance Law]

There's only one problem with this...

 

If he's leading the league or close to leading the league in OF assists, where do we expect his positive defensive improvement to come from?

 

There are a ton of balls dropping in front of him because he's not comfortable going back on the ball. The White Sox are literally forcing/benching Eaton to change his defensive positioning due to not playing shallow enough. Even when he's in doubles-prevent defense, he's taking the wrong routes and not cutting off balls before they get to the wall. Any ball up in the air is an adventure, with one exception...the balls down the foul line or where he has to run a long long distance to get to them and get can up a full head of steam going in a defined direction. But initial reads and first step/false steps, he and Eaton are practically brothers out there in that regard this year.

 

Say what you will about Dayan Viciedo, but his 2012 season at least showed he had the potential to put one full season together defensively, to the point where he wasn't hurting the team out there and came up with quite a few positive plays.

 

In the end, they will live with his OF defense, but he's got to be more selective at the plate....fewer K's, more walks, more XB hits and not so many singles.

 

Yeah, I hear you. I don't know where the improvement comes from other than 'get better at the stuff you're bad at.' He might not improve too much, in which case the hope is 'get better at hitting' and potentially a move to left field where he's causing less advancement from 2nd to 3rd.

[Vance Law]

Trading LaRoche would clear the DH spot and allow for Avi & Melky to rotate between LF & DH. Not ideal IMO but better over our current alignment if you can find a plus defender for RF (Thompson or trade/free agency).

 

Yes, I said same yesterday. If we start selling, the shortest contracts are Shark, Alexei, Danks (no one's buying) and LaRoche. Half a season of a try-out for Trayce or someone else picked up in a trade would seem to be a good idea. It would seem to be a good strategy to have DH open, allowing for 10 regulars instead of 9, when you are in a rebuild/hoping to bring up young prospects.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Vance Law

[harkness99]

Avi's lack of discipline at the plate kills his potential... if he (like many other players) can't figure that out he wont evolve into anyone to remember.

[TaylorStSox]

Goodbye, $175 million or maybe even $200 million.

 

That's well beyond what we spent this offseason on LaRoche, Cabrera, Robertson, Samardzija (one year payroll addition), Bonifacio and Zach Duke combined.

 

The biggest problem is we're not playing in OLD Comiskey. If we had a huge outfield like Minnesota does, it would make more sense to spend millions on RF defense, but we're in a park that rewards offense first and foremost.

I think the Sox play in a park that rewards home runs, not offense. One of Hahn's many flaws in assembling this team is that it's full of gap hitters, including Garcia. Also, I don't think you can ever discount the value of defense.

Edited June 30, 2015 by TaylorStSox

[Steve9347]

I was somewhat surprised yesterday when I noticed that Avi's OPS has dropped to the very low 700's. I guess I shouldn't be though, as his recent free fall has been apparent to anybody paying attention. After digging a little deeper, I realized that I shouldn't be shocked at all. Across the last 3 seasons (all over 100 PA), Avisail has been the model of consistency. Not only has been a below replacement level player in all 3 seasons, but his wOBP, wRC+, K%, etc. have stay almost completely constant. He may be young and have plenty of room to grow still, but through 760 PA, it's likely we are seeing the player Avisail will always be.

 

Coming back to Earth a little bit, I was interested in seeing how he compared to some other White Sox. I immediately regretted this decision. When comparing Avi's numbers against fan favorite Dayan Viciedo, I came to a very sobering realization: Avisail is a younger version of Dayan Viciedo. Don't believe me? Here are their career numbers:

 

Avisail Garcia 760 PA 5.1 BB% 23.4 K% .132 ISO .272 AVG .316 OBP .403 SLG .316 wOBP 97 wRC+ -1.6 WAR

Dayan Viciedo 1798 PA 5.3 BB% 21.6% .170 ISO .254 AVG .298 OBP .424 SLG .315 wOBP 95 wRC+ -0.9 WAR

 

While he could make up ground over his next 1000 PA, Avi is largely the same player as Viciedo, maybe even slightly worse. His only positive UZR is in LF, a position in which the White Sox have never even tried him. I hope that the White Sox are smart enough to no longer be blinded by potential with Avi this offseason, there is nothing suggesting he is an ascending talent. It is either time to move him or utilize him in a different role.

Seems to make sense why we got him for a free falling Jake Peavy in his walk year, eh?

[Balta1701]

Seems to make sense why we got him for a free falling Jake Peavy in his walk year, eh?

Jake Peavy was not in his walk year when we traded him.

[Steve9347]

I'm in.

I LOL'd.

[Steve9347]

Jake Peavy was not in his walk year when we traded him.

Whatever. Facts are for sissies.

[TaylorStSox]

I still like the Peavy trade. We got some high upside players and Garcia is worth the risk. He's toolsy as hell. He just has some huge flaws that could have been corrected.

[shysocks]

I still like the Peavy trade. We got some high upside players and Garcia is worth the risk. He's toolsy as hell. He just has some huge flaws that could have been corrected.

The trade was just fine. Montas was a throw-in and is one of our most important prospects, and it was also a complete salary dump.

[Steve9347]

The Peavy trade remains fine. The dude was toast. But anyone who was expecting Avisail Garcia to be some stud All-Star was really hopeful.

[Eminor3rd]

The Peavy trade remains fine. The dude was toast. But anyone who was expecting Avisail Garcia to be some stud All-Star was really hopeful.

 

Exactly.

 

Remember Avi spent 7 years in the minors and had over 2,400 PA. So he may be 24 in age but he spent a lot of time in the minors.

 

Which is why is should scare the s*** out of us that his issues are related to seeming to have no idea HOW to play the OF or come up with a plan at the plate. Next time he falls over himself in RF or flails at a pitch that lands in the opposite batters box, remember that he's been coached professionally since at least 2009.

[Boopa1219]

It seems like just a couple weeks ago his fan boys were telling me that his .350 OBP was a bit low for what he had in his future. Funny how BABIP works. It would be great if he put it together and I am fan of him but from a scouting point of you I've never seen the love the Sox FO has.

 

I have never been high on him either, like you I don't see what the Sox see. And I don't consider him to be a core player, meaning that the Sox shouldn't be privy to exclude him from being mentioned in trade talks.

 

[GreenSox]

It's been years since Hahn/Williams made a real plus trade. That's hurt the Sox as well as the poor drafting and development.

Salary dump nothing - Peavy was a prime trade chip. Too early to really judge Garcia (he had no approach when they got him - that shouldn't be a surprise - just hope he's one of those who can overcome a bad approach). But of the 3 A ball players, 1 looks good, 1 could be a bullpen pitcher in a year or so and if the other could hit a lick.....

The Sox tend to get fixated on that one player and one prospect. Maybe it's better to take a bundle of good ones and the odds are 1 will turn into a player (and, no, good ones does not mean AAAA and utility infielders like Williams did in Swisher 2).

I tell you who a salary dump was, or at least should have been - the first E Jackson trade. Yet somehow Williams managed to send our top 2 pitching prospects for that guy with his high salary and 5+ ERA.

And it looks like the Shark trade shows, again, poor evaluation skills by the Sox on their own players.

Edited July 2, 2015 by GreenSox

[shysocks]

It's been years since Hahn/Williams made a real plus trade. That's hurt the Sox as well as the poor drafting and development.

Salary dump nothing - Peavy was a prime trade chip. Too early to really judge Garcia (he had no approach when they got him - that shouldn't be a surprise - just hope he's one of those who can overcome a bad approach). But of the 3 A ball players, 1 looks good, 1 could be a bullpen pitcher in a year or so and if the other could hit a lick.....

The Sox tend to get fixated on that one player and one prospect. Maybe it's better to take a bundle of good ones and the odds are 1 will turn into a player (and, no, good ones does not mean AAAA and utility infielders like Williams did in Swisher 2).

I tell you who a salary dump was, or at least should have been - the first E Jackson trade. Yet somehow Williams managed to send our top 2 pitching prospects for that guy with his high salary and 5+ ERA.

And it looks like the Shark trade shows, again, poor evaluation skills by the Sox on their own players.

I shouldn't have said salary dump; I just meant that the Sox shed his entire salary, which tends to lower the return.