More evidence of Chicago media turning on Ventura

[Y2Jimmy0]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...630-column.html

 

Advocates trading Chris Sale, among other ideas...which is basically blowing up the entire roster and starting over.

 

 

 

Fact is, nobody’s sure how the Sox front office works after Williams’ comments over the weekend that Hahn isn’t good enough to take Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf’s first phone call.

 

Hahn, though, made the announcements of the new signings and acquisitions last offseason. So, I guess Hahn is in charge of making the roster and Williams is in charge of blowing it up.

 

That’s apparently why Williams accompanied the Sox during consecutive series losses in Minnesota and Detroit. He wanted to evaluate players. He didn’t need to spend the money. The players stink. Trade as many as you can as fast as you can.

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...-htmlstory.html

39% blame players, 36% blame Ventura/coaching, 25% the front office

 

 

Yesterday, Matt Abbatacola said that he knows that the White Sox wouldn't get what Sale is worth in a trade but that they should do it anyway? What?

[southsider2k5]

Why do people complain the White Sox hire their own and then suggest guys like Ozzie, Thome, Alomar, and Martinez?

 

The Sun Times article is pretty funny considering it is written by Chris De Luca, a guy who refused to fire Cowley, and a guy whose own people think is very incompetent at his job as a managing editor (see Jim O'Donnell). People have been calling for his head for years.

 

And Mariotti.

[Y2Jimmy0]

#1- Just my humble opinion, I don't think the media has the impact they used to.

#2- I don't think Ventura will be replaced during the season. The time to do it was May. Now? Who cares?

#3- If they do fire Ventura during the season, it won't be until after Reunion Weekend. July 20 is an off day while they're still home. That would be the day.

 

 

I agree. I'll be stunned if Ventura gets fired in season. I'm actually still not positive that he'll be fired in the off-season. They like Steverson and Cooper. Are they going to make a new manager inherit those guys? I still think that they just move some players around, keep Ventura, and try to win again in 2016. That doesn't make anyone happy. I still think that's what happens though.

[LDF]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...629-column.html

 

David Haugh with an even stronger shot across the bow...

 

 

Stop yourself before suggesting managers make no impact on wins and losses. Save the sabermetrics for evaluating leadoff hitters and relief pitchers. Some things in baseball simply cannot be adequately measured by an acronym. A city where Cubs manager Joe Maddon works is the wrong place to make that argument too. Like a boss in any profession, the right manager can create a culture conducive to winning whether establishing that new environment involves more structure, accountability or just plain fun. Who is the Sox's Maddon to lead the total rebuild necessary? Should Ventura be the only guy to go? Even if it takes until next offseason to answer those questions, starting the process now makes sense.

 

....

 

When Reinsdorf discusses the future of the Sox with executive vice president Ken Williams or general manager Rick Hahn — in that order, as Williams made clear — you suddenly wonder how capable he is of distinguishing between Ventura the manager and Ventura the person he has known and admired for 26 years.

 

nice post.

[LDF]

I agree. I'll be stunned if Ventura gets fired in season. I'm actually still not positive that he'll be fired in the off-season. They like Steverson and Cooper. Are they going to make a new manager inherit those guys? I still think that they just move some players around, keep Ventura, and try to win again in 2016. That doesn't make anyone happy. I still think that's what happens though.

 

and if they don't fire anyone, good luck in selling those season tickets and corp tickets.

 

would anyone have faith in the sox org if something drastic is not done??

[caulfield12]

Yesterday, Matt Abbatacola said that he knows that the White Sox wouldn't get what Sale is worth in a trade but that they should do it anyway? What?

 

 

Somehow, one gets the feeling Baseball Prospectus, Yahoo and Grantland aren't all lining up to give him an "inside baseball" column.

 

Maybe mlbtraderumors as an intern, if he's lucky.

 

If not for Hawk Harrelson, nobody would even know his name outside of a few Score insiders.

[caulfield12]

and if they don't fire anyone, good luck in selling those season tickets and corp tickets.

 

would anyone have faith in the sox org if something drastic is not done??

 

 

The Sox can ignore the potential benefits of an exciting metamorphosis at their own risk. But Hahn's promising offseason has only resulted in a bump of 1,014 fans per game and their average of 21,910 ranks 27th in league attendance — with 49 home games left for the division's last-place team.

 

 

They'e already lost 50% of their offseason ticket bounce.

 

And selling advertising for radio and t.v. broadcasts from here on out (if they weren't already locked into season long packages) will become a game of rapidly dimishing returns.

 

Other than playing the Cubs and July 17-19th (2005 reunion)...things are going to get uglier without anything beyond cosmetic changes taking place.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Sox can ignore the potential benefits of an exciting metamorphosis at their own risk. But Hahn's promising offseason has only resulted in a bump of 1,014 fans per game and their average of 21,910 ranks 27th in league attendance — with 49 home games left for the division's last-place team.

 

 

They'e already lost 50% of their offseason ticket bounce.

 

And selling advertising for radio and t.v. broadcasts from here on out (if they weren't already locked into season long packages) will become a game of rapidly dimishing returns.

 

Other than playing the Cubs and July 17-19th (2005 reunion)...things are going to get uglier without anything beyond cosmetic changes taking place.

 

 

Exactly. If they truly feel like making some roster tweaks and bringing back Ventura is the best thing then they'll do it. White Sox fans shouldn't even enter the thought process. If they bring back Ventura, the crowds will be the same as this year pretty much. If they keep him and end up being a good team, the crowds will be better. They need to win and win consistently for Sox fans to attend games. We know this already though.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox can ignore the potential benefits of an exciting metamorphosis at their own risk. But Hahn's promising offseason has only resulted in a bump of 1,014 fans per game and their average of 21,910 ranks 27th in league attendance — with 49 home games left for the division's last-place team.

 

 

They'e already lost 50% of their offseason ticket bounce.

 

And selling advertising for radio and t.v. broadcasts from here on out (if they weren't already locked into season long packages) will become a game of rapidly dimishing returns.

 

Other than playing the Cubs and July 17-19th (2005 reunion)...things are going to get uglier without anything beyond cosmetic changes taking place.

 

If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie

Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout.

 

The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants.

[jasonxctf]

Do you think the Sox could get Ozzie on the agreement that...

 

- This is an interim job. No more, no less. You are helping the Sox try and save some face this year, while showing the rest of MLB Baseball that you are ready/capable to manage again. So you, Ozzie, are showcasing your talents for the rest of the league to see. We will be hiring a full time manager, after the season going forward.

[TitoMB345]

NO OZZIE

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

[caulfield12]

If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie

Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout.

 

The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants.

 

 

It's sports.

 

Every situation like this reaches a "critical mass," to the point where the daily questions/secon-guessing and barrage of columns create a big enough distraction that it's counter-productive to the organizational goal of creating and fostering a winning atmosphere.

 

If the White Sox stubbornly attempt to prove everyone wrong, they're just going to end up turning off even more fans.

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Do people forget Ozzie quit on the team? Who was the manager for many of the This. Team. Is. Dead. posts. It didn't used to be blamed on the manager. Now it is.

[caulfield12]

If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie

Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout.

 

The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants.

 

 

Not if it was Skinner, McEwing, Bell or Capra.

 

As you'll notice in Philly (MacPhail, Amaro and Gillick) and Arizona, those organizations weren't afraid to spend Bonifacio/Downs/Paulino/Keppinger/Belisario money on recent in-season changes in leadership much more important than the 23rd-25th players on the roster.

 

The White Sox, close to a billion dollar franchise, are suddenly concerned about saving a few bucks when they were recently willing to spend $125-135 million on Tanaka?

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[shysocks]

Do people forget Ozzie quit on the team? Who was the manager for many of the This. Team. Is. Dead. posts. It didn't used to be blamed on the manager. Now it is.

Apparently yes.

[caulfield12]

Do people forget Ozzie quit on the team? Who was the manager for many of the This. Team. Is. Dead. posts. It didn't used to be blamed on the manager. Now it is.

 

 

That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans.

 

Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight.

 

Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance.

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Do you think the Sox could get Ozzie on the agreement that...

 

- This is an interim job. No more, no less. You are helping the Sox try and save some face this year, while showing the rest of MLB Baseball that you are ready/capable to manage again. So you, Ozzie, are showcasing your talents for the rest of the league to see. We will be hiring a full time manager, after the season going forward.

 

"No. No, man. s***, no, man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' something like that, man. "

[Eminor3rd]

omfg you people are clamoring for the return of Ozzie Guillen?

[Dick Allen]

That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans.

 

Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight.

 

Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance.

So the White Sox situation is hopeless. They will never win. Isn't this the Royals model that you want the Sox to adopt? Suck Royally for 30 years, sneak into the WC get lucky during the WC game, get to the WS, lose, and suddenly your way is the right way.

[ShandyMan]

Do the white sox need a manager with the fire and energy of ozzie? Yes.

 

Do the white sox need a manager named Ozzie Guillen? No.

[Dick Allen]

That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans.

 

Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight.

 

Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance.

If you are blaming the losing on the manager, why are you crying about the talent level? A good manager obviously has this team in the playoffs easily and probably the WS.

[southsideirish71]

No Ozzie. We have been there and have done that. Find someone outside of the organization that isn't a nepotism hire due to tenure of being a player for the sox. No matter how good you remember the player being or how smart you thought they were is not going to make them qualified for the job. Robin Ventura is one of my favorite baseball players ever. However I didnt think he was right for the job. No managing experience and learning on the job. No ex-sox players for hitting coaches. No ex-sox players for any management position. Just because you have their jersey doesn't make them qualified for the position. Evaluate this like a business and hire based on best candidate. Not based on some memory you had as a child for your hero.

Edited June 30, 2015 by southsideirish71

[southsider2k5]

omfg you people are clamoring for the return of Ozzie Guillen?

 

Rinse, repeat.

[Soxfest]

No to Ozzie but KW on down needs to go after the season or Sox have no one to blame for lack of interest but themselves.

[caulfield12]

So the White Sox situation is hopeless. They will never win. Isn't this the Royals model that you want the Sox to adopt? Suck Royally for 30 years, sneak into the WC get lucky during the WC game, get to the WS, lose, and suddenly your way is the right way.

 

Isn't that preferable to now pretending Robin Ventura was 2012 AL Manager of the Year and that we actually made the playoffs that season?

 

Should we just throw out the results from the field and argue the Sox should have won in 1994, 2003, 2006, 2008 (Quentin hamate was unlucky), 2010 and 2012?

 

Weren't we just as lucky Hahn's kid lucked out on the coin toss, or it would be a full decade since the last White Sox playoff appearance? That doesn't count?

 

Sometimes...teams make their own luck. It's sports. Even the 2005 White Sox had about at least eight or nine lucky things occur for them to win...every possible break went their way.

Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12