bighurt574 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Too many bad starts. Those back-to-back 7 run starts were killers. He'd need to finish the season on another crazy run to have any shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 03:37 PM) Too many bad starts. Those back-to-back 7 run starts were killers. He'd need to finish the season on another crazy run to have any shot. If anyone can do it, it's Chris Sale. I legitimately think he can break 20 Ks in a game. If he does that, I can see him taking the Cy Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) Daren Willman @darenw 4h4 hours ago Most swing & misses in a game this year Kershaw 30 Carrasco 30 Sale 28 Scherzer 27 Hamels 27 Sale 26 Sale 26 Sale 26 Bumgarner 26 And if that list was most games with 25 or more swings and misses Sale is near the top if not on top. No idea how to find a list like that but I know it exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 A very nice Sale read. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2550988...-des-art-bot-18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Where do you guys think Sale ranks in the Cy Young race? I think as of now, he'll finish 3rd behind Gray and Keuchel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) Where do you guys think Sale ranks in the Cy Young race? I think as of now, he'll finish 3rd behind Gray and Keuchel. 4th behind those mentioned above and Archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 03:48 PM) 4th behind those mentioned above and Archer Do you really think Archer would rank that high? He's not that impressive IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 04:59 PM) Do you really think Archer would rank that high? He's not that impressive IMO. I agree, but I don't trust the voters when it comes to dissecting advanced stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) Where do you guys think Sale ranks in the Cy Young race? I think as of now, he'll finish 3rd behind Gray and Keuchel. Should be 1st. Has the best FIP in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Should be 1st. Has the best FIP in the AL. If only the voters valued FIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) 1st has to be Keuchel right now. Even if Sale goes the distance today he'll have a double-digit lead in IP, and isn't that far away in FIP (2.72 to 2.40) or fWAR (5.2 to 5.0) and has an almost 1 run lead on Sale in ERA. If Sale can get his ERA below 3 I'd put him 2nd over Gray, but he'll have to do a lot to beat out Keuchel. Edited August 21, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:52 PM) If only the voters valued FIP. I think ERA should be valued more than FIP for the Cy Young. It's an award for the results on the field over the past year. If you had some bad luck on balls hit into play, sorry, but you should be judged on what happened, not what should have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 21, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) I think ERA should be valued more than FIP for the Cy Young. It's an award for the results on the field over the past year. If you had some bad luck on balls hit into play, sorry, but you should be judged on what happened, not what should have happened. I think they should be given roughly equal weight, with maybe a slight advantage to ERA. I've seen way too many "earned unearned runs" given up by Sox pitching this year that I just can't give ERA significantly more weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 21, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) I think they should be given roughly equal weight, with maybe a slight advantage to ERA. I've seen way too many "earned unearned runs" given up by Sox pitching this year that I just can't give ERA significantly more weight. Although the White Sox defense is particularly bad, if we're comparing Sale's numbers to Sonny Gray or Keuchel, the A's aren't exactly knwon for having a good defense and Houston isn't all that spectacular either. Fangraphs has the White Sox defense 30th, the A's 29th, and Houston 19th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13476677...plete-nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 21, 2015 -> 10:11 AM) 1st has to be Keuchel right now. Even if Sale goes the distance today he'll have a double-digit lead in IP, and isn't that far away in FIP (2.72 to 2.40) or fWAR (5.2 to 5.0) and has an almost 1 run lead on Sale in ERA. If Sale can get his ERA below 3 I'd put him 2nd over Gray, but he'll have to do a lot to beat out Keuchel. Keuchel also has two more starts than Sale. That's why he has more innings. Sale missed his first start due to injury and Houston has played more games. Sale IP/Start = 6.83 Keuchel IP/Start = 7.13 Still more innings for Keuchel, but his 21 extra innings pitched over Sale is clearly a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Dan Hayes @CSNHayes 3m3 minutes ago Chris Sale may have a 3.34 ERA but also leads the AL in Fielding Independent Pitching (2.36). Means, yes, he should be squarely in Cy race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 22s22 seconds ago Will Sale win the Cy Young? If the season ended today, and you're asking "Who is the best pitcher in the American League?" It's Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 With Sale's FIP almost a run lower than his ERA, this year's Cy Young voting will tell us a lot about if voters are noticing the advanced metrics or not. Even if Sale doesn't win, if he beats out Gray or Price despite a big gap in ERA that will tell us a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Am I the only one that thinks that Sale is a lock for the Cy Young if he can somehow get to 300 K's this season? That feat is so rare in this day in age that I don't know how the voters couldn't give it to him, regardless of his ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 09:51 AM) Am I the only one that thinks that Sale is a lock for the Cy Young if he can somehow get to 300 K's this season? That feat is so rare in this day in age that I don't know how the voters couldn't give it to him, regardless of his ERA. On its own, number of Ks should make no difference. You got to take the whole picture into consideration. Right now, he's not winning that award. He's probably not even top-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 09:56 AM) On its own, number of Ks should make no difference. You got to take the whole picture into consideration. Right now, he's not winning that award. He's probably not even top-3. Who's ahead of him? Keuchel, Gray, and Price? Those 3 might be have a better shot than him now, but he's right behind them IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I really wish ERA wasn't as valued as it is. All of the "Arrieta vs Sale" talk during the Cubs series was only a thing because of ERA. FIP is really much more valuable, as are the other advanced pitching metrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 11:10 AM) Who's ahead of him? Keuchel, Gray, and Price? Those 3 might be have a better shot than him now, but he's right behind them IMO. The ESPN predictor has Sale 7th. The list in front of him is kinda neat: Dallas Keuchel Sonny Gray Zach Britton Luke Gregerson Mark Buehrle Chris Archer Chris Sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) The ESPN predictor has Sale 7th. The list in front of him is kinda neat: Dallas Keuchel Sonny Gray Zach Britton Luke Gregerson Mark Buehrle Chris Archer Chris Sale I'll eat my hat if any of those three finish ahead of Sale. No Price anywhere? How do they figure Gregerson in there at all? His ERA is 3.00 and he's a reliever that's thrown less than 50 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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