For Those Who Question the Effort or Desire of the Players

[OmarComing25]

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbullet...ad.php?t=143164

 

Yeah I know, I'm linking to WSI, but I read this post the other day and I think the poster makes a great point. I see so many posts here day in and day out about how it's "clear the players don't give a s***" or just flat out don't care and there's a big difference between saying "this team sucks" and "this team doesn't give a s***". These guys are professionals, they didn't get to this level through lack of caring, they're just not good enough. There's constant criticism here about their supposed lack of effort, but we as posters don't really know how much work the players put in between games or in the offseason. The results might not be there, but I don't think the issue is lack of trying.

 

For those too lazy to click the link, here's the post:

 

"So, we just got back home tonight from St. Louis after watching the Sox win two games from the Cardinals.

 

One story to share from our trip: We signed up to take a 2 p.m. ballpark tour Tuesday afternoon before the series opener. When we arrived, the first thing the Busch Stadium tour guide did was apologize to our group because we wouldn't be able to go onto the field or into the dugouts. Reason: Several members of the White Sox had come in early for extra work. He said it was unprecedented for one of his ballpark tours to be interrupted because a visiting team had shown up that early for a workout.

 

Sure enough, when we walked into the stands behind home plate, several Sox hitters were around the cage working -- Ramirez, Garcia, Beckham, Gillaspie. It looked like most of the team was on the field five hours before game time, well before the usual batting practice time.

 

I shared this story because I think it's something for us to keep in mind next time there's a tough loss and we're tempted to post something about the team quitting, not caring, or not working hard. I saw guys at the ballpark early on Tuesday. They're not very good, and it's going to be a long year, but that doesn't mean they aren't trying to fix their problems.

 

Before someone posts something snarky, let me just say that I realize that trying isn't good enough. It's professional sports, and you're expected to win. But we have some posters here who routinely accuse the Sox players of not trying and not caring. I just wanted people to know there are some guys on the club who are willing to put in a long day at the ballpark to try to get better. I witnessed it on Tuesday. Sometimes in frustration, we forget these guys are professionals, and they don't like to suck anymore than we like to watch them suck. Food for thought during a struggling season."

Edited July 7, 2015 by OmarComing25

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's one thing you'll never hear me say it that's there's no effort . Yes I will say they have no shot at the playoffs and they have underachieved but never that they don't care. I'm in no position to judge their desire no matter what you might think you see on TVduring the game. There's just so much more that goes on we never see as you so eloquently pointed out.

[LDF]

ok, i respect the effort that was made to get this post going, also to show that, at least you still haven't given up or lost faith in this team.

 

now with that preamble, i will step up to the podium and admit that i was one who mention that it looked as some of the players are just mailing it in. no effort during the games, simple mistakes running on the base path and any lack of embarrassment from that mistake.

 

while you are mentioning the work that these player put in, lets not forget, they are few, of hundreds of failed players whose dream were crushes, b/c they didn't have that little extra something to elevate in the mlb regular. "they are not very good" well, i would need a reference of how exactly you are meaning this, b/c i still think they are good, it is they are not executing.

 

but what they are showing, in practice, is not showing up in the game. there is a difference on effort in practice and somehow it is not transferring over to game time.

 

so my simple question is why???

[Rooftop Shots]

Well another thing I noticed is when something good does happen (a great win, a great play etc) everybody is always hugging each other and getting PUMPED.It shows that they do care and are exuberant and happy for each other when good things do happen. One question....don't know if anyone knows the Full answer. I see Melky get a double and drive in a run, he's pumped. I GET the part of the index finger spinning around in circles which signifies stirring the pot that Adam Eaton started, but I don't get the second part. He takes 2 fingers and makes a side ways peace sign over his left eye, and then takes the same 2 fingers, touches his hip and then raises it in the air. Anyone know what that signifies??

[MEANS]

it signifies "Game...Blouses"

[Rooftop Shots]

it signifies "Game...Blouses"

 

"Game.....Blouses" ????? That signifies a clutch hit?? Sorry...but ......lost on this one

[LittleHurt05]

"Game.....Blouses" ????? That signifies a clutch hit?? Sorry...but ......lost on this one

 

 

Prince is really good at basketball

[southsider2k5]

I have said it all year. This team is trying too hard, versus not hard enough. They haven't played relaxed baseball most of this year.

[iamshack]

I have said it all year. This team is trying too hard, versus not hard enough. They haven't played relaxed baseball most of this year.

My concern is more on mental preparation than physical.

[LDF]

My concern is more on mental preparation than physical.

 

in the beginning of the season, i thought it was more both, mental and physical. now i think it is more mental with a little of attitude of i don't care it is a lost season and we have a puppet manager. sprinkle on top.

Edited July 7, 2015 by LDF

[Eminor3rd]

So fire Robin, right?

[LDF]

So fire Robin, right?

a. only the pro's will know more about that.

b. if someone can convince the owners that the vp and manager needs to be change.

[GGajewski18]

So fire Robin, right?

 

The Brewers and Padres firings of their managers prove that a managerial change doesn't spark a team. Brewers have gone hot lately, but the Padres are playing .333 ball since Bud Black firing.

 

By no means am I saying that Robin is right for the job, just mentioning that firing people doesn't always spark teams.

[LDF]

The Brewers and Padres firings of their managers prove that a managerial change doesn't spark a team. Brewers have gone hot lately, but the Padres are playing .333 ball since Bud Black firing.

 

By no means am I saying that Robin is right for the job, just mentioning that firing people doesn't always spark teams.

 

the biggest screw up, imo is when the FO took some time to have some sort of classes with RV.... wasn't that around the Balt series.

 

it was like putting RV in the class of how to be a manager 101.

 

that was when i started to think of him more than a puppet

[GGajewski18]

the biggest screw up, imo is when the FO took some time to have some sort of classes with RV.... wasn't that around the Balt series.

 

it was like putting RV in the class of how to be a manager 101.

 

that was when i started to think of him more than a puppet

 

I thought this was going to happen right when they hired him.

[LDF]

I thought this was going to happen right when they hired him.

 

i will admit this, i was hoping for the best, i am a RV fan. but this yr was the yr to either succeed or cut bait.

[southsider2k5]

So fire Robin, right?

 

I think Robin is the anti-Ozzie. I believe after a while, everyone just quit listening to Ozzie, because the routine wore thin. But the one thing Ozzie always did was to take pressure off of the guys by front-running the media. Honestly, I am not sure if it was on purpose, or Ozzie buckling under the pressure and saying something stupid... but it always happened.

 

Robin is the opposite. I think the guys really like him and respect him, but his personality doesn't dictate him taking away attention from everyone else. That allows the pressure to flow to the team, that didn't under Ozzie. Instead of tuning out Robin, they try harder and hard. The guys try harder to break the slump, and put too much pressure on themselves. I see the pressure all of the time. The last time that comes to mind was Sunday against the Orioles on the back to back errors in the 7th/8th inning. Jennings gets a comebacker, instead of relaxing and getting at least one out, he rushes the throw, throws it into the ground, Sanchez can't catch it, everyone is safe. Next play Sanchez tries to hurry and turn a double play, instead blows the play, can't get any out. Both were trying to get two outs, before they got the first out.

 

While I never want to see Ozzie back as a coach or manager here, I would love to see a personality LIKE Ozzie's in the lockerroom to keep things loose.

[Eminor3rd]

I think Robin is the anti-Ozzie. I believe after a while, everyone just quit listening to Ozzie, because the routine wore thin. But the one thing Ozzie always did was to take pressure off of the guys by front-running the media. Honestly, I am not sure if it was on purpose, or Ozzie buckling under the pressure and saying something stupid... but it always happened.

 

Robin is the opposite. I think the guys really like him and respect him, but his personality doesn't dictate him taking away attention from everyone else. That allows the pressure to flow to the team, that didn't under Ozzie. Instead of tuning out Robin, they try harder and hard. The guys try harder to break the slump, and put too much pressure on themselves. I see the pressure all of the time. The last time that comes to mind was Sunday against the Orioles on the back to back errors in the 7th/8th inning. Jennings gets a comebacker, instead of relaxing and getting at least one out, he rushes the throw, throws it into the ground, Sanchez can't catch it, everyone is safe. Next play Sanchez tries to hurry and turn a double play, instead blows the play, can't get any out. Both were trying to get two outs, before they got the first out.

 

While I never want to see Ozzie back as a coach or manager here, I would love to see a personality LIKE Ozzie's in the lockerroom to keep things loose.

 

So maybe we need a charismatic bench coach.

[chitownsportsfan]

I agree with SS2K: the entire team is pressing. I'd have rather RV ordered everyone to go get drunk, hookup with some slumpbusters, sleep it off and show up an hour before the game.

Edited July 7, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[ILMOU]

I agree with SS2K: the entire team is pressing. I'd have rather RV ordered everyone to go get drunk, hookup with some slumpbusters, sleep it off and show up an hour before the game.

But, ya know, it's a manager's job to read his team, and help them stay confident.

 

Just one of RVs endless failings. Wouldnt be expecting any kind of "spark" from a firing, but it's an essential start to the housecleaning.

 

Of course Robin has to go - his players don't respond to him in any way that helps their performance. This is obvious.

 

I don't how Eminor, DA, or any otherwise intelligent poster can defend him. What aspects of the job, exactly, do you think he's performing well in?

 

Aw forget it. Rhetorical.

 

The only real fear here is that a FO completely lacking in accountability keeps a terrible Mgr around for another year after this, knowing that RVs failure is theirs too, because they don't have the balls to admit it.

[Eminor3rd]

But, ya know, it's a manager's job to read his team, and help them stay confident.

 

Just one of RVs endless failings. Wouldnt be expecting any kind of "spark" from a firing, but it's an essential start to the housecleaning.

 

Of course Robin has to go - his players don't respond to him in any way that helps their performance. This is obvious.

 

I don't how Eminor, DA, or any otherwise intelligent poster can defend him. What aspects of the job, exactly, do you think he's performing well in?

 

Aw forget it. Rhetorical.

 

The only real fear here is that a FO completely lacking in accountability keeps a terrible Mgr around for another year after this, knowing that RVs failure is theirs too, because they don't have the balls to admit it.

 

I'm not defending him, I'm just frustrated that everyone has concluded that he is the issue and that firing him will solve the team's problems. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying I don't think he matters. or at least there's no evidence to suggest he's causing this team to play poorly.

[Vance Law]

I'm not defending him, I'm just frustrated that everyone has concluded that he is the issue and that firing him will solve the team's problems. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying I don't think he matters. or at least there's no evidence to suggest he's causing this team to play poorly.

 

Exactly. The house is burning down and there is a mob of meatheads complaining that they don't like the color of the drapes.

[ILMOU]

I'm not defending him, I'm just frustrated that everyone has concluded that he is the issue and that firing him will solve the team's problems. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying I don't think he matters. or at least there's no evidence to suggest he's causing this team to play poorly.

He's not THE issue, which is ultimately JR, but he is among the issues, and the easiest to change. I think managers matter at least a little. Robin is a very smart guy and was (charging Nolan Ryan excepted) a very smart player.

 

And yet, Ive never seen a dumber team on the field. Even despite the departure of Einsteins like Tank and de Aza. We get the details wrong like no other. Either the details aren't being communicated well, or they aren't given enough priority. It's on Robin.

 

Drapes? no - margins between wins and losses are tiny. Yes, managing matters a little, or the title wouldn't exist or pay so well.

 

Meathead? Debatable.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[LDF]

But, ya know, it's a manager's job to read his team, and help them stay confident.

 

Just one of RVs endless failings. Wouldnt be expecting any kind of "spark" from a firing, but it's an essential start to the housecleaning.

 

Of course Robin has to go - his players don't respond to him in any way that helps their performance. This is obvious.

 

I don't how Eminor, DA, or any otherwise intelligent poster can defend him. What aspects of the job, exactly, do you think he's performing well in?

 

Aw forget it. Rhetorical.

 

The only real fear here is that a FO completely lacking in accountability keeps a terrible Mgr around for another year after this, knowing that RVs failure is theirs too, because they don't have the balls to admit it.

 

the point is, at least for me, i think they will never admit to being wrong. i think they will continue to do what they are doing and blame someone else.

[Vance Law]

Drapes? no - margins between wins and losses are tiny. Yes, managing matters a little, or the title wouldn't exist or pay so well.

 

Meathead? Debatable.

 

The margin between this team's offense and league average is not tiny. Are you blaming Ventura for the baseball players' hitting?

 

Are you blaming Ventura for rostering the following subpar (to awful) defenders:

 

Micah Johnson

Conor Gillaspie

Avi Garcia

Jose Abreu

Melky Cabrera