White People - A Documentary

[Balta1701]

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it has given them a leg up against people willing to work equally hard is part of the point of highlighting it.

[EvilMonkey]

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it has given them a leg up against people willing to work equally hard is part of the point of highlighting it.

SO my hillbilly dad that barely graduated high school, who joined the air force at 18 then got out 4 years later, married the daughter of a German immigrant and worked 60 hours a week in a factory to buy a house, have 3 kids and help put 2 of them thru college has to feel guilty of his white privilege because if he wasn't white he would have had to work 70 hours a week? How far back to you want people to acknowledge things? Do I need to feel guilty because of my dad's hard work? Do I need to feel guilty because i worked in that same factory at 16 to help be able to afford my college? (Which i got in because of my GPA and ACT score, not because I was white) Do I need to feel guilty that my grandfather was a moonshiner in the Kentucky hills that only came to Illinois to evade arrest? The same grandfather that worked in the coal mines and died an early age from black lung? I am not too up on my relatives that go back farther than that, but I am sure there is some whiteness in there somewhere I need to say sorry for.

[Balta1701]

Do I need to feel guilty that my grandfather was a moonshiner in the Kentucky hills that only came to Illinois to evade arrest?

And how many African Americans are currently serving long jail terms in this country for drug crimes comparable to that which your family was privileged enough to be able to avoid?

 

What will you do or support to give them the same opportunity granted to your family?

[Balta1701]

Do I need to feel guilty that my grandfather was a moonshiner in the Kentucky hills that only came to Illinois to evade arrest?

And how many African Americans are currently serving long jail terms in this country for drug crimes comparable to that which your family was privileged enough to be able to avoid?

 

What will you do or support to give them the same opportunity granted to your family?

[EvilMonkey]

And how many African Americans are currently serving long jail terms in this country for drug crimes comparable to that which your family was privileged enough to be able to avoid?

 

What will you do or support to give them the same opportunity granted to your family?

Privileged that he outran the law across the border? If he were to do that today, it wouldn't have worked, he would be in jail, with a felony no doubt. Or is it your contention that if he were a black moonshiner that the law would have worked extra hard to get him? This was like 1920 or so? With prohibition, I don't think they worried about color. There was no opportunity 'granted' my family. My father earned his. I earned mine.

 

From your response it seems you equate success with privilege. Is any success earned in your eyes? And you still haven't said you would quit your job and give it to a more deserving and qualified minority. lead the way!

Edited July 9, 2015 by Alpha Dog

[Balta1701]

Privileged that he outran the law across the border? If he were to do that today, it wouldn't have worked, he would be in jail, with a felony no doubt. Or is it your contention that if he were a black moonshiner that the law would have worked extra hard to get him? This was like 1920 or so? With prohibition, I don't think they worried about color. There was no opportunity 'granted' my family. My father earned his. I earned mine.

 

From your response it seems you equate success with privilege. Is any success earned in your eyes? And you still haven't said you would quit your job and give it to a more deserving and qualified minority. lead the way!

Bolded = what we do to African Americans.

 

This is why white privilege is a hell of a drug. You outline something that has jailed literally a million people today, dominantly one race, and then you insist he earned that freedom. The ungodly prison population in this country...well sorry, they shoulda known better than to commit the crimes that your ancestor got away with while earning his success. Tough luck.

[shoeless_joe21]

Medical evidence actually shows that by the time they're 30 years old, African American women are the equivalent of biologically being several years older than white women due to increased stress. We insult people, we treat them as less important in our daily lives, and then we justify that by saying "oh I'll hire anyone as long as they're the best fit" or "good job playing to the stereotype" without realizing that both of those actions feed directly back into the whole setup. Insults, shunning, casual comments, whatever it is, the effects are actually strong enough to show up in people's biology.

 

I remember reading that study. I don't recall anything about insults, shunning, or any other verbal abuse being attributed to the increased stress they face.

[EvilMonkey]

Bolded = what we do to African Americans.

 

This is why white privilege is a hell of a drug. You outline something that has jailed literally a million people today, dominantly one race, and then you insist he earned that freedom. The ungodly prison population in this country...well sorry, they shoulda known better than to commit the crimes that your ancestor got away with while earning his success. Tough luck.

And it would jail him if he were to do it today. He did that 100 years ago. Comparing him to crack dealer of today is NOT apples to apples. Can you not read that? Are those words not showing up on your screen? How is that privilege? His only saving grace is that maybe they were more worried about Al capone and the mobsters that to spend the resources to track a very small fish. Whiteness had nothing to do with it, even in your perverse universe. Now, if you want to talk about how come certain wealthy white people can commit perjury, lose billions of investors money, tamper with government emails, help create and explode the housing bubble and so on and not be in jail, maybe that is called Democratic privilege.

[Jenksismyhero]

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it has given them a leg up against people willing to work equally hard is part of the point of highlighting it.

 

You know if it were just people acknowledging that being white helps, that's one thing. But we all know that documentary is about white shamming and white guilt. And s***, how sad is it that in a documentary about "tell me what it's like to be white" people have to DEFEND that, as if it's a BAD thing. It's totally perverse.

 

I'd also like you to acknowledge that it's racist as s***. Because when we all say racism is a terrible thing and shouldn't be a part of our society, that should go for ALL racism, not selective racism.

[DrunkBomber]

Maybe I'm naive, but I think race relations in this country might improve some if minorities made an attempt to gain empathy for their plight.

 

Race is definitely a factor in the U.S., but how do Mexicans in this country who feel they are targeted because of their race explain the divisions off wealth and power in Mexico? Is "whitey" responsible? How about in India or China or (fill in he blank)? White people can't be responsible in those countries, too.

 

One of the problems some white people have with minorities is that when the minorities point a finger, they are often pointing at people who are not racist. So, from the perspective of the white person, the attack is unwarranted and the white person may naturally feel defensive. A black person or Hispanic person might look at me with envy because my life must have been so great because I'm white. But, they don't know that my parents are immigrants, and they struggled to find good jobs. They struggled to feed, clothe, and educate my family.

 

I can relate with minorities way more than they might believe, but I and many other white people don't/won't get the chance. Many minorities look at me and other white people with the same prejudice that they claim to abhor.

This is a great post. I think wed get a lot further with race relations in this country if the people who are so quick to point fingers and call people racist considered a lot of these points.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

And how many African Americans are currently serving long jail terms in this country for drug crimes comparable to that which your family was privileged enough to be able to avoid?

 

What will you do or support to give them the same opportunity granted to your family?

Who the hell cares about what happened to his grandpa back in the 20's or 30's or whenever the hell it was. I am beyond flabbergasted. Do you live your life thinking about where you'd be if x and y didn't happen to your grandparents or your parents or just pass up on opportunities that opened up because somewhere somehow their probably is someone more deserving or someone who had to go through "more" to get there? Do you just live your live dreaming about if only x, y and z happened to my great grand parents and then my parents, etc and then I'd have been something or do you deal with what you were dealt and do the best to make the best of it (through hard work, dedication, etc).

 

My answer to that question for myself is I was dealt a certain hand and went forward to improving the hand I was dealt (and I'm thankful I was dealt a good hand which provided me the opportunity to grow up in a safe environment where learning was encouraged, etc, but that has less to do with my race and more to do with growing up middle class, imo, but someone could go ahead and say different but I'm not going to feel bad for who I am or apologize either) and I take great offense at anyone who would want me to feel bad for what I have accomplished because it is what I HAVE accomplished to date.

 

By the way, having never thought about this until now (cause I could care less what race someone is), I suppose my kids technically are minorities (I think, unless half white counts as white...hell if I know, don't really care to be frank) and I have an expectation that they will get a hand dealt to them (which I hope will be a good hand) and they too can build upon the hand dealt to them and continue enhancing their lives and the hands dealt to them, but also at the same time, being good people / humans who treat people well and continue the trend of being better and more understanding than previous generations, etc. Will they or won't they, hell if I know, and while maybe some ahole will snicker about their race, they will know from a young age to be confident in who they are and I will do everything I can to help teach and promote that.

[Balta1701]

Who the hell cares about what happened to his grandpa back in the 20's or 30's or whenever the hell it was. I am beyond flabbergasted. Do you live your life thinking about where you'd be if x and y didn't happen to your grandparents or your parents or just pass up on opportunities that opened up because somewhere somehow their probably is someone more deserving or someone who had to go through "more" to get there? Do you just live your live dreaming about if only x, y and z happened to my great grand parents and then my parents, etc and then I'd have been something or do you deal with what you were dealt and do the best to make the best of it (through hard work, dedication, etc).

Per the story, he actually committed a crime, received no punishment for it, and then was able to build a life.

 

Real simple question. Is that fair? Do we afford that same chance to people equally today? Or ever?

 

If we do not, should we take that into account? If his family was able to make their lives better, shouldn't we give that same opportunity to others? We as a society are arresting and imprisoning millions of people for a comparable crime in marijuana possession right now and those people are overwhelmingly african american males. Basically the exact thing his family was able to sneak around the law to survive without substantial jail time. I literally couldn't imagine a better example than this if I tried.

[illinilaw08]

You know if it were just people acknowledging that being white helps, that's one thing. But we all know that documentary is about white shamming and white guilt. And s***, how sad is it that in a documentary about "tell me what it's like to be white" people have to DEFEND that, as if it's a BAD thing. It's totally perverse.

 

I'd also like you to acknowledge that it's racist as s***. Because when we all say racism is a terrible thing and shouldn't be a part of our society, that should go for ALL racism, not selective racism.

 

I'm pretty sure this conversation has veered away from the documentary that was its focus, but when talking about race in this country, I think it's important to note that, as Jenks point out, yes, being white provides a certain level of privilege over being black. I presume that everyone in this thread worked hard to be where they are - I certainly know that I did. But I also understand and acknowledge that my background - middle class with parents who valued the crap out of education - gave me a leg up in getting to where I am now.

 

It was only 50 years ago that the Civil Rights Act passed. Policies that directly impacted generations of African Americans were phased out within most of our parents' lifetimes. To acknowledge that it was easier for my parents to obtain middle class success in America than for a large chunk of minorities is simply reality. It doesn't devalue the work that my parents did to be successful, it just acknowledges the reality of race in in the 60s.

 

The point here (before I really start rambling) is that acknowledging that being white helps and having empathy for those who have had to (and still have to) deal with/fight discrimination is a huge and necessary step in race relations.

[EvilMonkey]

Per the story, he actually committed a crime, received no punishment for it, and then was able to build a life.

 

Real simple question. Is that fair? Do we afford that same chance to people equally today? Or ever?

 

If we do not, should we take that into account? If his family was able to make their lives better, shouldn't we give that same opportunity to others? We as a society are arresting and imprisoning millions of people for a comparable crime in marijuana possession right now and those people are overwhelmingly african american males. Basically the exact thing his family was able to sneak around the law to survive without substantial jail time. I literally couldn't imagine a better example than this if I tried.

Jon Corzine

Hillary Clinton

I volunteer those two white people to be the first that you go after for committing crimes and not being punished. Go for it.

 

And fyi, we wasn't CAUGHT, so not punished. We don't punish black people not caught either. Equality!

 

Also FYI, I will agree with you that prison for possessing pot is overkill, but I don't think that is necessarily white privilege.

[Chisoxfn]

Per the story, he actually committed a crime, received no punishment for it, and then was able to build a life.

 

Real simple question. Is that fair? Do we afford that same chance to people equally today? Or ever?

 

If we do not, should we take that into account? If his family was able to make their lives better, shouldn't we give that same opportunity to others? We as a society are arresting and imprisoning millions of people for a comparable crime in marijuana possession right now and those people are overwhelmingly african american males. Basically the exact thing his family was able to sneak around the law to survive without substantial jail time. I literally couldn't imagine a better example than this if I tried.

He wasn't caught. If he was caught and let go while another person was given 100 years, sure, but even then, that would have been 80 years ago or whatever. This is today and you can debate how much time people should get for possession, etc, but the facts are currently people getting busted are getting busted in accordance with our current penile code. Unless of course I'm mistaken.

[DrunkBomber]

I'm pretty sure this conversation has veered away from the documentary that was its focus, but when talking about race in this country, I think it's important to note that, as Jenks point out, yes, being white provides a certain level of privilege over being black. I presume that everyone in this thread worked hard to be where they are - I certainly know that I did. But I also understand and acknowledge that my background - middle class with parents who valued the crap out of education - gave me a leg up in getting to where I am now.

 

It was only 50 years ago that the Civil Rights Act passed. Policies that directly impacted generations of African Americans were phased out within most of our parents' lifetimes. To acknowledge that it was easier for my parents to obtain middle class success in America than for a large chunk of minorities is simply reality. It doesn't devalue the work that my parents did to be successful, it just acknowledges the reality of race in in the 60s.

 

The point here (before I really start rambling) is that acknowledging that being white helps and having empathy for those who have had to (and still have to) deal with/fight discrimination is a huge and necessary step in race relations.

Everything you said is fair and I agree with most of it. The issue I have is that I feel like every white person is being painted with the same broad brush (which is pretty ironic all things considered) I grew up in a pretty broken home and got nothing from my parents or family and still dont talk to members of my intermediate family. Thats why I find it offensive that its ok for people to just assume anything I have or have earned is partially because Im white. Ive been broke, harassed by police, unemployed and had to fight every day to keep my head above water and now Im constantly being told I need to check my privilege and I get to hear about all these great advantages Ive had.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm pretty sure this conversation has veered away from the documentary that was its focus, but when talking about race in this country, I think it's important to note that, as Jenks point out, yes, being white provides a certain level of privilege over being black. I presume that everyone in this thread worked hard to be where they are - I certainly know that I did. But I also understand and acknowledge that my background - middle class with parents who valued the crap out of education - gave me a leg up in getting to where I am now.

 

It was only 50 years ago that the Civil Rights Act passed. Policies that directly impacted generations of African Americans were phased out within most of our parents' lifetimes. To acknowledge that it was easier for my parents to obtain middle class success in America than for a large chunk of minorities is simply reality. It doesn't devalue the work that my parents did to be successful, it just acknowledges the reality of race in in the 60s.

 

The point here (before I really start rambling) is that acknowledging that being white helps and having empathy for those who have had to (and still have to) deal with/fight discrimination is a huge and necessary step in race relations.

Good post and very elegantly said.

[Balta1701]

Everything you said is fair and I agree with most of it. The issue I have is that I feel like every white person is being painted with the same broad brush (which is pretty ironic all things considered) I grew up in a pretty broken home and got nothing from my parents or family and still dont talk to members of my intermediate family. Thats why I find it offensive that its ok for people to just assume anything I have or have earned is partially because Im white. Ive been broke, harassed by police, unemployed and had to fight every day to keep my head above water and now Im constantly being told I need to check my privilege and I get to hear about all these great advantages Ive had.

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it effects people willing to work equally hard from the same situations is part of the point of highlighting it.

[EvilMonkey]

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it effects people willing to work equally hard from the same situations is part of the point of highlighting it.

Which accomplishes what?

[Buehrle>Wood]

Reading minority reaction is great. They don't think this movie should exist either because white people already have too much a voice.

[Balta1701]

Which accomplishes what?

You can't figure out ways to eliminate problems, whether it's systematic and governmental or just in a person's own behavior, without recognizing what fits into those problems. Whether its judging someone because you're personally not used to behavior that's normal for them or society doing something like the completely different drug enforcement rates between different races.

[Chisoxfn]

The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it effects people willing to work equally hard from the same situations is part of the point of highlighting it.

So hypothetically you emphasize with a particular person when having a conversation, oh I'm sorry, I understand I had a leg up and am compassionate for your situation and what you've worked through? How does that really help the impacted person? Does it make them feel better, does it erase past inequalities, does it do anything different? I suppose maybe the person at least feels they were acknowledged for their success and what they did to accomplish whatever it was they accomplished?

 

I could tell you that if I told that to my father in-law, he'd be irate if I made that sort of comment (and he was one of the last flights out of Vietnam and lived on a marine base until eventually making it on his own (came over with nothing, not knowing if his family survived, made it over, etc, and then had to find ways to get other members of his family over, etc). All that said, he's incredibly proud of what he has been able to accomplish and what he was able to accomplish for his family and his children (one of which is obviously my wife) and would never want to hear about how he could have done so much more if he hadn't been born in a poor country and then had to deal with war, etc.

[Balta1701]

So hypothetically you emphasize with a particular person when having a conversation, oh I'm sorry, I understand I had a leg up and am compassionate for your situation and what you've worked through? How does that really help the impacted person? Does it make them feel better, does it erase past inequalities, does it do anything different? I suppose maybe the person at least feels they were acknowledged for their success and what they did to accomplish whatever it was they accomplished?

 

I could tell you that if I told that to my father in-law, he'd be irate if I made that sort of comment (and he was one of the last flights out of Vietnam and lived on a marine base until eventually making it on his own (came over with nothing, not knowing if his family survived, made it over, etc, and then had to find ways to get other members of his family over, etc). All that said, he's incredibly proud of what he has been able to accomplish and what he was able to accomplish for his family and his children (one of which is obviously my wife) and would never want to hear about how he could have done so much more if he hadn't been born in a poor country and then had to deal with war, etc.

If you pause and recognize such things...a valid question is the one Alpha just asked, what next? You can look at that at both a personal level and a societal one. The simple one at a societal level I can keep using is the drug punishment one. African Americans and Whites in surveys say they use marijuana at similar rates, yet African Americans are arrested at rates 3-4 times as much as white people for the exact same crime. That's why I highlighted the case above - because white people are able to get away with a crime that black people are regularly jailed for.

 

Recognizing personal behavior, whether in business or life, is another one. I had a friend/colleague who received negative comments from his employer because his teeth were too bad - he grew up in Kenya and had never had braces. I'm sure the employer never felt he was being "racist" at the time, he was just providing advice from the experience he has about people with bad teeth, but that's exactly what it was and my colleague recognized it immediately. Comment because a person hadn't bothered to think about different backgrounds and his own privilege turned that into a hostile work environment. How do you think that person would act if another person with those teeth came into that office for an interview? Clearly would count it as a negative regardless of actual qualifications. Do we ask what other judgments we make based on personal appearances? Or based on the sound of people's names? (that's a classic experiment in resumes btw, giving people similarly qualified resumes except with names common to different ethnic groups).

[Jake]

(1) all "white" people are not the same. Some "white" people are not privileged and haven't experienced the same privilege as other whites

 

You can, on the whole, have lots of disadvantages yet still have the particular advantage of being white. I'm not bothering to look too much into this documentary but the notion of "white privilege" isn't that every single white person automatically gets ahead of every single black person in all aspects of life. It's that being white is easily one of the single largest advantages you can be afforded in the United States. Not so large that some black people can't have better lives than some white people or that people who happen to be white won't face other challenges that they don't deserve.

 

The idea of pointing out white privilege is to, in part, get white people to recognize that they have a race and theirs has consequences. White is the default race. Some of that can be attributed to a numbers game. In the USA, whites far outnumber everyone else. This allows people to ignore that being white means something. You can see all of your accomplishments as untinged by your race, considering how little of an overt role it played. It's where the criticism of people saying things like they are "color-blind" and that society is "post-racial" comes from. It's easy to say that society is post-racial when you aren't directly or intentionally harming other races and you haven't been held back by yours. And so long as you fail to recognize those benefits, you won't be able to help make a more equitable society. More obviously, if you outright reject the benefits of being white--that is, you claim there are none--you will also reject any efforts to make the world a fairer place.

 

And that doesn't take away from the other privileges a person may not have. You might not be beautiful, smart, born into wealth, have a healthy body, good luck, etc. There is obviously a class privilege, which I think a lot of people start latching onto when they get mad at the notion of white privilege. "I was poor! I had no privilege!" But you did have a privilege, even if you lacked one that is also very important.

[DrunkBomber]

Maybe its just me but the idea of white privilege is textbook prejudice which is something that I personally try to avoid. Id imagine the SJW's who have been beating white privilege to death on the internet had excessively large silver spoons in their mouths their whole lives and thats why they cant see the other side of this debate. I dont care how many times you preface a statement with "Im not saying white people dont work hard but..." you are only seeing one side of it. Im not gonna live my life distinguishing people by their race/religion/sexual preference etc and determine which of them should feel or do what.