White People - A Documentary

[Y2HH]

If you pause and recognize such things...a valid question is the one Alpha just asked, what next? You can look at that at both a personal level and a societal one. The simple one at a societal level I can keep using is the drug punishment one. African Americans and Whites in surveys say they use marijuana at similar rates, yet African Americans are arrested at rates 3-4 times as much as white people for the exact same crime. That's why I highlighted the case above - because white people are able to get away with a crime that black people are regularly jailed for.

 

Recognizing personal behavior, whether in business or life, is another one. I had a friend/colleague who received negative comments from his employer because his teeth were too bad - he grew up in Kenya and had never had braces. I'm sure the employer never felt he was being "racist" at the time, he was just providing advice from the experience he has about people with bad teeth, but that's exactly what it was and my colleague recognized it immediately. Comment because a person hadn't bothered to think about different backgrounds and his own privilege turned that into a hostile work environment. How do you think that person would act if another person with those teeth came into that office for an interview? Clearly would count it as a negative regardless of actual qualifications. Do we ask what other judgments we make based on personal appearances? Or based on the sound of people's names? (that's a classic experiment in resumes btw, giving people similarly qualified resumes except with names common to different ethnic groups).

 

That's because he wasn't being racist, he was pointing out that he had bad teeth.

 

This is what I mean by people seeing "racism" where it simply doesn't exist. Jesus, talk about a f***ing stretch.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Y2HH

[southsider2k5]

All this does is allow the people who profit from racism on both sides to continue doing so, because people like this create more racism then they solve.

[Y2HH]

All this does is allow the people who profit from racism on both sides to continue doing so, because people like this create more racism then they solve.

 

It's just my opinion, but people that feel "white guilt", are probably guilty of something.

 

I grew up around REAL racism, not this half-assed sugar coated bulls*** half of you seem to think is racism. Fortunately, despite being surrounded by racism in Bridgeport, I was wise enough/smart enough to realize that making absurd generalizations about people because of their skin color wouldn't make me 1) smarter than them, 2) better than them or 3) get a job over them when I entered the real world.

 

There is real racism in this world, and the more people water it down with this sort of bulls*** the longer it will take to get rid of it. You don't "cure" racism by guilt tripping other races, all that does is create MORE animosity.

 

If a person of [insert ANY color] was to tell me I'm only where I am because I'm white, you're damn right I'd get offended.

 

I grew up around losers...and VERY few of us escaped becoming a loser. I could have been just like the rest of them, kicking back at "house parties" in Bridgeport/Cville and become exactly like them. Today, MOST of them are 1) dead, 2) incarcerated, 3) on welfare, 4) addicted to hard drugs...and if I had chosen to stay around them, I'd be exactly like them. I knew when to cut ties and get the f*** out...and that's why I am where I am today, not because I'm white.

[cabiness42]

There is real racism in this world, and the more people water it down with this sort of bulls*** the longer it will take to get rid of it. You don't "cure" racism by guilt tripping other races, all that does is create MORE animosity.

 

[Texsox]

A couple things I've learned teaching in schools with the majority of the schools population being minorities.

 

If you generally disagree with my liberal politics please skip to paragraph three then loop back. In 2015, right now, American is still hugely different based on your appearance.

 

Their parents, their parent's parents, their parent's parent's parents, etc. have all been victims of racism by the ruling classes in American. A few marches and a couple laws does not change that. The only thing that will change that is many years, decades or lifetimes, of not being discriminated against. There isn't a magical switch that can be made and attitudes changed. Some of the stories that are handed down are about racist cops, racist employers, racist landlords, racist banks, etc. And don't kid yourself that isn't still happening.

 

There are a lot of messages out there for minority kids and their parents. You shouldn't feel this way about Y, or you should feel this way about X. It boils down to you should feel like us. We aren't offended by a Confederate battle flag and you shouldn't be either. We feel there are a lot of really good cops and accept a few bad ones will skip by and so should you. Everything would be perfect if you felt and acted just like us. We're happy and you should be too.

 

GOP START HERE --> I believe a lot of the stress is there are two things happening by good people trying to do the right thing. On one end we have the power structure in this country changing. I look at my lifetime. President Obama and I were born two weeks apart. When we were born there were a lot of places we could not have hung out together. Public pools, hotels, restaurants, the same Boy Scout Troop, etc. In my lifetime that has changed and he was elected President, twice. As a "privileged white" that is amazing change in my point of view. And the changes are still on going. As a country we did it while emerging as a stronger nation, unlike other places around the world that had groups battling for change. Those that changed (metaphorically) in powerful ways want some recognition for that change. They want some respect for all that change. That seems fair. America today is far better than the America I was born in. For everyone. From the environment to the workplace.

 

On the other side are the generations raised in a far less equal America. One filled with racism that can't be erased as fast. When you go from a (hypothetical) 30% of equality to 70% of equality, that doesn't mean you can somehow ignore the inequalities that still exist. The gains are still not enough if you believe in "all men are created equal". So how do we celebrate the changes, credit those that have worked for that change, while continuing to remove the inequalities? I don't know. I do know that when we are all outraged at racist cops we have won a small victory. I believe Alpha when he said he hired the person that can make him the most money. So he will hire a gay fat man or a bisexual Hispanic woman (did she tell you or did you ask?) that is a victory. The battle is over when he chooses between Robert or Sonia and he or any person hiring doesn't check off any boxes. We see each other as simply humans.

 

Balta's comments caused me to really think. When I was his age, I felt much of the same way. Now I sit here and think, hey Balta, I've spent 53 years trying to make America better by pushing for an America where everyone can contribute to their maximum capacity. You're acting like it's all crap and we haven't done a damn thing. Then I realize I probably didn't respect too much the contributions that were made in the 1950s and 1960s. All I saw what was left to be done. We've come a long way from sit-ins and forced integration. It's up to the next generation to build on what we accomplished and continue to make America's promise a reality for everyone.

 

Finally, when big issues like this have arrived over the past ten years I think of SS2k5. He and I are at almost opposite ends of the political spectrum. Yet, when he explains his vision for America, it is very similar to mine. We disagree on how to get there, but the goal is the same. Perhaps of we focus on that, we'll arrive at that dream quicker.

 

Now back to a bunch of white people arguing about the plight of minorities in America

[RockRaines]

It's just my opinion, but people that feel "white guilt", are probably guilty of something.

 

I grew up around REAL racism, not this half-assed sugar coated bulls*** half of you seem to think is racism. Fortunately, despite being surrounded by racism in Bridgeport, I was wise enough/smart enough to realize that making absurd generalizations about people because of their skin color wouldn't make me 1) smarter than them, 2) better than them or 3) get a job over them when I entered the real world.

 

There is real racism in this world, and the more people water it down with this sort of bulls*** the longer it will take to get rid of it. You don't "cure" racism by guilt tripping other races, all that does is create MORE animosity.

 

If a person of [insert ANY color] was to tell me I'm only where I am because I'm white, you're damn right I'd get offended.

 

I grew up around losers...and VERY few of us escaped becoming a loser. I could have been just like the rest of them, kicking back at "house parties" in Bridgeport/Cville and become exactly like them. Today, MOST of them are 1) dead, 2) incarcerated, 3) on welfare, 4) addicted to hard drugs...and if I had chosen to stay around them, I'd be exactly like them. I knew when to cut ties and get the f*** out...and that's why I am where I am today, not because I'm white.

It's strange that all caucasians can be painted with a broad brush and its ok. I had one guy ask me what it was like having family members who were slave owners in the south. Uh my family was still in Germany dude, but I appreciate the accurate history lesson.

[Texsox]

It's strange that all caucasians can be painted with a broad brush and its ok. I had one guy ask me what it was like having family members who were slave owners in the south. Uh my family was still in Germany dude, but I appreciate the accurate history lesson.

So how many Jews did they kill?

 

My wife asked if my grandparents spoke any German at home when I was growing up. I replied that with WW2 it was kind of uncool to speak German.

 

Seriously it should be noted that the economy of the south was dependent on slave labor. Even if you did not personally own slaves you probably provided a product or service to a plantation.

[LDF]

 

in my response, being part apache and yous guys europeans.....

 

so in essence this post, my post for today is my way of shoveling some BS around and i acknowledging it.

 

down here me and my cuz during some of the get togethers, start, for lack of words, talk about another rebellion.

 

now as we continue in our discussion, and then it gets more serious.... then we start talking about an uprising.

 

now in the more, we all then talk of the nasty hangover we have and say fuvck it.

 

but it was a good night.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

So how many Jews did they kill?

 

My wife asked if my grandparents spoke any German at home when I was growing up. I replied that with WW2 it was kind of uncool to speak German.

 

Seriously it should be noted that the economy of the south was dependent on slave labor. Even if you did not personally own slaves you probably provided a product or service to a plantation.

 

By this logic everyone in the world was a de-facto slave owner because everyone bought southern goods made/sourced by slave labor which then provided the financial resources necessary to continue the practice.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

By this logic everyone in the world was a de-facto slave owner because everyone bought southern goods made/sourced by slave labor which then provided the financial resources necessary to continue the practice.

New York's wealth was built on trading goods made by slaves. Britain may have abolished slavery in their country and colonies, but they still bought tons of Georgia cotton. etc.

[Texsox]

By this logic everyone in the world was a de-facto slave owner because everyone bought southern goods made/sourced by slave labor which then provided the financial resources necessary to continue the practice.

 

I don't believe it was everyone in the world. But looking at the south, if you were a transportation company shipping raw cotton to the mills up north, you were dependent on slaves. If you built the boats that the shipping companies used etc. That was why the end of slavery would destroy the southern economy. It wasn't just slave owning plantation owners that would suffer. The blacksmith that repaired their equipment was doomed. The small farmer who provided produce to the plantation who didn't own slaves needed their biggest customer.

 

This isn't an indictment of them, just a perspective on why change was so difficult.

 

Being the last major country to outlaw slavery was a huge economic benefit to the north and south. The early wealth was also brought about by tobacco. We also found great wealth in the land we took from Mexico. Our success wasn't always pretty, but it is what it is.

[StrangeSox]

I don't believe it was everyone in the world. But looking at the south, if you were a transportation company shipping raw cotton to the mills up north, you were dependent on slaves. If you built the boats that the shipping companies used etc. That was why the end of slavery would destroy the southern economy. It wasn't just slave owning plantation owners that would suffer. The blacksmith that repaired their equipment was doomed. The small farmer who provided produce to the plantation who didn't own slaves needed their biggest customer.

 

This isn't an indictment of them, just a perspective on why change was so difficult.

 

There's no reason to assume that agriculture would just instantly stop if slave-owning plantation owners suddenly had to actually pay their workers instead of owning them as animals. There's still cotton fields in the south.

[Jenksismyhero]

I get the point, but in a sense it's meaningless. We're all supporters of child labor given our continued support of mobile technology (or really any cheaply made goods). But it's not like we're going to change anytime soon despite our collective agreement that child labor is a terrible thing.

 

I think it's difficult to judge non-slave owning people back then since we're all doing the same exact thing now.

[StrangeSox]

I get the point, but in a sense it's meaningless. We're all supporters of child labor given our continued support of mobile technology (or really any cheaply made goods). But it's not like we're going to change anytime soon despite our collective agreement that child labor is a terrible thing.

 

I think it's difficult to judge non-slave owning people back then since we're all doing the same exact thing now.

 

I don't think it's meaningless, though. We are complicit in some of the terrible labor practices around the world today, and it is a collective moral failure.

[Texsox]

There's no reason to assume that agriculture would just instantly stop if slave-owning plantation owners suddenly had to actually pay their workers instead of owning them as animals. There's still cotton fields in the south.

 

There are. But you only have to look at a list of the richest people in the world currently. See all those middle eastern princes from OPEC nations? When you have the lowest prices on high demand products you become rich. The south was producing a rare double. The highest quality product at the cheapest prices. American cotton was prized for it's quality and it was really cheap. Once slavery was abolished would consumers around the world want to pay the same or more than what they could buy locally? American farms and factories were the China of the day. Low prices. Soon they would be the same or possibly even higher.

 

 

I get the point, but in a sense it's meaningless. We're all supporters of child labor given our continued support of mobile technology (or really any cheaply made goods). But it's not like we're going to change anytime soon despite our collective agreement that child labor is a terrible thing.

 

I think it's difficult to judge non-slave owning people back then since we're all doing the same exact thing now.

 

I wasn't judging.

 

It is meaningless if you believe change can happen without knowing why something is going on. There are interests in allowing humans to be exploited for their labor. The companies that make profits, the consumers who gladly save the money. I don't believe we can get away with exploiting workers until we do realize that buying that $4 made by exploited workers t-shirt over a $7 made with a fair wage t-shirt promotes child labor. We also have to connect the dots for the consumer to the point they see how it benefits them. And that is the hardest thing of all.

 

This connects to racism and the battle between the races here. Some people see the challenge as white Americans giving something up for minorities. This is fueled by politicians who see it as an easy way to encourage voters. A much more difficult sell to the white population is that a rising tide raises all ships.

 

[iamshack]

I'm pretty sure this conversation has veered away from the documentary that was its focus, but when talking about race in this country, I think it's important to note that, as Jenks point out, yes, being white provides a certain level of privilege over being black. I presume that everyone in this thread worked hard to be where they are - I certainly know that I did. But I also understand and acknowledge that my background - middle class with parents who valued the crap out of education - gave me a leg up in getting to where I am now.

 

It was only 50 years ago that the Civil Rights Act passed. Policies that directly impacted generations of African Americans were phased out within most of our parents' lifetimes. To acknowledge that it was easier for my parents to obtain middle class success in America than for a large chunk of minorities is simply reality. It doesn't devalue the work that my parents did to be successful, it just acknowledges the reality of race in in the 60s.

 

The point here (before I really start rambling) is that acknowledging that being white helps and having empathy for those who have had to (and still have to) deal with/fight discrimination is a huge and necessary step in race relations.

But what you are saying and what the documentary seems to be showing are different things, are they not?

 

I'm pretty sure Jenks and Alpha understand what you articulate the "point here" is. That seems to be much different than what they are arguing the documentary to be asking white teenagers to do.

[RockRaines]

So how many Jews did they kill?

 

My wife asked if my grandparents spoke any German at home when I was growing up. I replied that with WW2 it was kind of uncool to speak German.

 

Seriously it should be noted that the economy of the south was dependent on slave labor. Even if you did not personally own slaves you probably provided a product or service to a plantation.

It may have not been Jews but I'm positive they killed some Pols and Russians. We werent from what could be considered the "good" side of Germany.

[caulfield12]

Has anyone actually watched the full documentary?

 

As far as Asians go, they're not only discriminated against for being Asian, they're also reverse-discriminated against in college admissions acceptances for being too good at test-taking, so universities will deny admission for more white, African-American and Hispanic students in order to maintain a semblance of ethnic balance.

 

 

[MexSoxFan#1]

Lol at this silly thread

 

White people put waaay to much stock into this "white privilege" thing. I really don't see it. Being born rich, whatever race you are >>>>> being born white and poor.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by MexSoxFan#1

[Jack Parkman]

Lol at this silly thread

 

White people put waaay to much stock into this "white privilege" thing. I really don't see it. Being born rich, whatever race you are >>>>> being born white and poor.

/thread

However there are a disproportionate percentage of the rich people who are white. I don't know the numbers exactly, but I'd guess that at least 85% of those people who are super rich are white.

 

Now on to another subject: If you are white AND disabled, good f***ing luck to you. You get no protections except those under the ADA, which are a start but need to be expanded at this point. If you are a racial minority, and disabled, you have double the rights of the other guy. It makes a company more willing to take you on because you kill two tax breaks with one job. Otherwise FOD.

 

Everybody should know how business treats disabled people. It is despicable. I have firsthand experience with it, but won't go into it. there is a reason why the disabled have 70% UE even in the best of times. You are allowed to ask for "reasonable accommodations" but "reasonable" is not defined by you it is defined by the employer, which in turn means that the question is asked: 1) Does it cost us a cent to make this request possible? if the answer is no, then sure, come aboard. if it costs them even 50 cents to make that accommodation, then f*** off, that is unreasonable.

 

In any event, did anyone hear about the scandal with the ADA hiring? Despicable, greedy, and selfish. I hope these people rot in jail, and i think that we should take all of the $ from the CEOs of these companies involved bank accounts and put it all into the SSI/SSDI fund. It is super tough to live on less than 900 dollars a month even if you have not to pay for room and board.

[caulfield12]

/thread

However there are a disproportionate percentage of the rich people who are white. I don't know the numbers exactly, but I'd guess that at least 85% of those people who are super rich are white.

 

Now on to another subject: If you are white AND disabled, good f***ing luck to you. You get no protections except those under the ADA, which are a start but need to be expanded at this point. If you are a racial minority, and disabled, you have double the rights of the other guy. It makes a company more willing to take you on because you kill two tax breaks with one job. Otherwise FOD.

 

Everybody should know how business treats disabled people. It is despicable. I have firsthand experience with it, but won't go into it. there is a reason why the disabled have 70% UE even in the best of times. You are allowed to ask for "reasonable accommodations" but "reasonable" is not defined by you it is defined by the employer, which in turn means that the question is asked: 1) Does it cost us a cent to make this request possible? if the answer is no, then sure, come aboard. if it costs them even 50 cents to make that accommodation, then f*** off, that is unreasonable.

 

In any event, did anyone hear about the scandal with the ADA hiring? Despicable, greedy, and selfish. I hope these people rot in jail, and i think that we should take all of the $ from the CEOs of these companies involved bank accounts and put it all into the SSI/SSDI fund. It is super tough to live on less than 900 dollars a month even if you have not to pay for room and board.

 

 

Sounds like a situation not unlike the recent VA hospitals scandal.

 

Except veterans in this day and age (anything past the Vietnam War) are treated with much more respect than in the past...and there are a lot more charities to support them (although we can never be sure about much of that money is actually getting to them directly, as opposed to executive salaries, marketing/direct fundraising costs and just simple scams/corruption like a recent situation with the NASCAR driver Busch's g/f).