BigHurt3515 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Article According to Buehrle and this article, the Sox never offered him a contract when he hit free agency. This is a disappointment to me, why would the front office not even attempt to keep a guy like Buehrle who the city loved and also was still pretty damn good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think they told him to see what he could get and when they saw that told him to go take it. I would love a token contract given to buerhle so he can retire a white sox at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) Article According to Buehrle and this article, the Sox never offered him a contract when he hit free agency. This is a disappointment to me, why would the front office not even attempt to keep a guy like Buehrle who the city loved and also was still pretty damn good? I remember that. They didn't have any budget space for a contract that they knew that he was going to get offered. They took the money and signed Jose Abreu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Welcome to 4 years ago. The Sox heard the Marlins offer, and told him they couldn't offer him anywhere close to that money. This has been known since it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) They took the money and signed Jon Danks. Abreu came a couple years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) Welcome to 4 years ago. The Sox heard the Marlins offer, and told him they couldn't offer him anywhere close to that money. This has been known since it happened. Buehrle said he would have gladly taken $10 mil a year to stay with the Sox and we never even asked how low he would go. Disservice IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) Buehrle said he would have gladly taken $10 mil a year to stay with the Sox and we never even asked how low he would go. Disservice IMO He could have made that offer to the white sox and they'd have taken it. That's not how it went down. He went to the Marlins and came back with a 4/$56 offer with a $20 million final season balloon payment. The White Sox might have been willing to push to 3/$36 or something like that range, if Mark was bringing back the other offer it would have been flat out disrespectful to even put that offer on the table. Mark earned the right to get paid and he took it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 11:57 AM) Welcome to 4 years ago. The Sox heard the Marlins offer, and told him they couldn't offer him anywhere close to that money. This has been known since it happened. Problem is they never asked him how low he'd go and apparently he would have gone pretty low (albeit it sounds like that was only during the season he would have gone that low...we don't know what he would have done once he hit FA and received that offer from the Marlins). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think the organization felt it would have been inappropriate to offer him a contract that was dramatically below his market value. JR is loyal and has certainly gotten guys to accept discounts to stay in Chicago, but if he really cared about Mark as he said he did he wouldn't have allowed him to piss away all that money...and he didn't let him do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 02:06 PM) He could have made that offer to the white sox and they'd have taken it. That's not how it went down. He went to the Marlins and came back with a 4/$56 offer with a $20 million final season balloon payment. The White Sox might have been willing to push to 3/$36 or something like that range, if Mark was bringing back the other offer it would have been flat out disrespectful to even put that offer on the table. Mark earned the right to get paid and he took it. I think you are missing the point. The Sox could have made an offer to him before FA even started giving him a number they would do. It's not Mark's job to offer the Sox a contract he would take. I'm pointing out what Mark said in the article, he would have signed he for less and we didn't even try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It’s kinda like a parent sending their kid off into the world to find a good paying career rather than staying home and helping run the family’s small business. JR basically said, We’d love to keep you around but you should jump on this chance to go and make a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 If Mark was really willing to take 3/$30, then add that to the list of recent awful decisions made by the Sox front office. I thought Mark was looking for the big payday, so the Sox didn't offer it knowing they would get overbid by other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It was time for Buerhls to move on when he did. But I wouldn't be against trading Quintana for king's ransom (hopefully mainly positional players) and signing Buehrle to a 2 year $15-20M deal this offseason. I don't think he makes much sense in the rotation if Sale, Rodon and Q are all in it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 We were not at all in the position to sign a mid-30's middle-rotation free agent starter at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Where is the thread when he signed? I don't recall many complaining back then. Weren't the Sox supposed to be in a full rebuild anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This is the ultimate hindsight thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) This is the ultimate hindsight thread. This exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) Where is the thread when he signed? I don't recall many complaining back then. Weren't the Sox supposed to be in a full rebuild anyway? http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83853 http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You know what, just for fun, let's say the Sox give Buehrle the Marlins contract. Match it exactly. Sale took Buehrle's slot in the rotation, so now Sale is in a premier lefty setup role or closer. The rotation to begin the year? Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber. Danks goes down with an injury still, but instead of calling up Jose Quintana, the White Sox call up Hector Santiago, their homegrown prospect who is no longer in the pen due to Chris Sale's presence. Fast forward to last year and they're rolling with Buehrle ($19M), Danks, Santiago, Scott Carroll and Quintana in his second year starting, with the Sox trying to see what they've got. Chris Sale is now closing. Due to Buehrle's contract and no 1-2 punch of Sale and Quintana, the White Sox elect to not sign Jose Abreu. There's no real reason for it. They don't trade for Eaton either as the asking price was Sale, an elite closer at this point. Davidson was to be included in the hypothetical Sale-Eaton deal. The Sox DO have the number one overall pick in 2014 though and use it to take Brady Aiken. Who then has TJS. With the franchise in shambles, Alexei is traded off and Semien given the starting SS job. Semien and Micah Johnson combine to be the single worst defensive SS-2B duo of all time. Conor Gillaspie is at first while Sanchez is manning third. They've also decided to trade their elite closer at this point for a Top 40-60 prospect. The Sox don't go out and spend money and fans bemoan them wasting Buehrle's twilight years and being cheap. Granted, these are the same people who are likely complaining about Melky, Robertson, Samardzjia, Duke and LaRoche. And for those saying it wasn't Buehrle or Sale, it was Buehrle or Danks. Danks, six years younger, was already signed to a cheaper on average deal with no $20M year involved. Buehrle also kept talking about retirement as we all know and wanting to be more with is family, which is 100% his right but not exactly something you want to lock $56M into. So we keep Mark Buehrle and Santiago, but we lose Sale as a starter, a more seasoned Q, Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton and Carlos Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 wait what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) You know what, just for fun, let's say the Sox give Buehrle the Marlins contract. Match it exactly. Sale took Buehrle's slot in the rotation, so now Sale is in a premier lefty setup role or closer. The rotation to begin the year? Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber. Danks goes down with an injury still, but instead of calling up Jose Quintana, the White Sox call up Hector Santiago, their homegrown prospect who is no longer in the pen due to Chris Sale's presence. Fast forward to last year and they're rolling with Buehrle ($19M), Danks, Santiago, Scott Carroll and Quintana in his second year starting, with the Sox trying to see what they've got. Chris Sale is now closing. Due to Buehrle's contract and no 1-2 punch of Sale and Quintana, the White Sox elect to not sign Jose Abreu. There's no real reason for it. They don't trade for Eaton either as the asking price was Sale, an elite closer at this point. Davidson was to be included in the hypothetical Sale-Eaton deal. The Sox DO have the number one overall pick in 2014 though and use it to take Brady Aiken. Who then has TJS. With the franchise in shambles, Alexei is traded off and Semien given the starting SS job. Semien and Micah Johnson combine to be the single worst defensive SS-2B duo of all time. Conor Gillaspie is at first while Sanchez is manning third. They've also decided to trade their elite closer at this point for a Top 40-60 prospect. The Sox don't go out and spend money and fans bemoan them wasting Buehrle's twilight years and being cheap. Granted, these are the same people who are likely complaining about Melky, Robertson, Samardzjia, Duke and LaRoche. And for those saying it wasn't Buehrle or Sale, it was Buehrle or Danks. Danks, six years younger, was already signed to a cheaper on average deal with no $20M year involved. Buehrle also kept talking about retirement as we all know and wanting to be more with is family, which is 100% his right but not exactly something you want to lock $56M into. So we keep Mark Buehrle and Santiago, but we lose Sale as a starter, a more seasoned Q, Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton and Carlos Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) You know what, just for fun, let's say the Sox give Buehrle the Marlins contract. Match it exactly. Sale took Buehrle's slot in the rotation, so now Sale is in a premier lefty setup role or closer. The rotation to begin the year? Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber. Danks goes down with an injury still, but instead of calling up Jose Quintana, the White Sox call up Hector Santiago, their homegrown prospect who is no longer in the pen due to Chris Sale's presence. Fast forward to last year and they're rolling with Buehrle ($19M), Danks, Santiago, Scott Carroll and Quintana in his second year starting, with the Sox trying to see what they've got. Chris Sale is now closing. Due to Buehrle's contract and no 1-2 punch of Sale and Quintana, the White Sox elect to not sign Jose Abreu. There's no real reason for it. They don't trade for Eaton either as the asking price was Sale, an elite closer at this point. Davidson was to be included in the hypothetical Sale-Eaton deal. The Sox DO have the number one overall pick in 2014 though and use it to take Brady Aiken. Who then has TJS. With the franchise in shambles, Alexei is traded off and Semien given the starting SS job. Semien and Micah Johnson combine to be the single worst defensive SS-2B duo of all time. Conor Gillaspie is at first while Sanchez is manning third. They've also decided to trade their elite closer at this point for a Top 40-60 prospect. The Sox don't go out and spend money and fans bemoan them wasting Buehrle's twilight years and being cheap. Granted, these are the same people who are likely complaining about Melky, Robertson, Samardzjia, Duke and LaRoche. And for those saying it wasn't Buehrle or Sale, it was Buehrle or Danks. Danks, six years younger, was already signed to a cheaper on average deal with no $20M year involved. Buehrle also kept talking about retirement as we all know and wanting to be more with is family, which is 100% his right but not exactly something you want to lock $56M into. So we keep Mark Buehrle and Santiago, but we lose Sale as a starter, a more seasoned Q, Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton and Carlos Rodon. :notworthy :notworthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) wait what Arguing to the point of absurdity. Inspired by Wite's amazing post on keeping Gio QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:22 AM) I read the topic. Didn't care about anything else anybody else has said, so if what I say is aforementioned, then many kudos. - It depends upon which time you were talking about. Had the Sox not traded for Jim Thome, they'd have been left with an 02-04ish offense, hoping and praying that Frank Thomas could stay healthy. They'd still be destroyed by great right handed pitching, and as a result probably would have only won 87 games instead of 90. That's IF they had kept Thomas. Had they still let Thomas walk, the best case scenario I can see is that they would have ended up with Nomar Garciaparra. They still lose 3 wins. That's at the very best. Now, if you're an old school type who believes that protection in the lineup helps generate production from other players, than perhaps Jermaine Dye doesn't hit 44 home runs, perhaps Paul Konerko doesn't put up the exact same numbers as MVP Justin Morneau, and perhaps other pieces from the lineup fall as well. Perhaps the Sox lose 10 wins, are ridiculously far out of it at the break, and deal Freddy Garcia for 2 other prospects. And then never get Gio back, and after another very bad year in 2008, the Sox fire both Williams and Guillen and hire Dan Evans and Gene Lamont to run the team. I think we all know how that one goes. Now, had they not traded him the second time, which is the one I think you are getting at, having never read a single word of your post, then the Sox don't end up with Nick Swisher. Now, depending upon how strictly and strongly you believe in the statistic WAR, and whose definition you believe most in (baseballreference or fangraphs), the Sox are either better off without Swisher (-0.5 bWAR) or Nick Swisher was worth more than 1 win for the 2008 Chicago White Sox (1.3 fWAR). I give much more credence towards fWAR but I'm a homer, so do as you please. But since, in this revisionist's history, we are using that, and we are using it to mean Nick Swisher was literally worth 1+ more wins than the average Joe they could have put in place, then what we would have seen would have been DeWayne Wise putting up 2 WAR in August alone and -3 WAR in the months outside of that, given general estimation. On top of that, even had the Sox found a perfect replacement level player to play instead of Swisher, who would have put up exactly a 0 fWAR, the Sox would have given up the division lead in the second game in the Metrodome, the final win against Cleveland wouldn't have mattered, they'd have never played the makeup game against Detroit, and the blackout game would have never taken place, thus, no Griffey/Thome/Danks show, and we would have never seen the batting champion-to-be bunt in his last plate appearance of the year attempting to get on base. At that point in time, 2009 would have been far more disappointing, and the Sox almost certainly would have never had the resources to sign Dayan Viciedo during the 2008-09 offseason. They'd be in a full blown rebuilding mode, still with Dan Evans and Gene Lamont in charge. Going into the 4th year of Reinsdorf's always too generous length of stay, the Sox would be coming off their 2nd straight 90+ loss season with an absolute garbage product on the field but hope beyond hope in the minors with a top 10 system in the league. But atleast they'd still have Gio f***in Gonzalez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) Where is the thread when he signed? I don't recall many complaining back then. Weren't the Sox supposed to be in a full rebuild anyway? Yes, that was year 1 of phase 2 which is not to be confused with phase 3 in which we are in year 1 of 3 at this time #kennytalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 07:57 PM) Welcome to 4 years ago. The Sox heard the Marlins offer, and told him they couldn't offer him anywhere close to that money. This has been known since it happened. I believe this is exactly what we were told and also Mark was told that he always had a spot with the Sox organization. Yes, I would have liked to have kept him too but Miami was paying out some huge contracts back then. They didn't win and guys got dealt quickly to dump those big money contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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