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Jay Bruce


Dunt

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QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 02:46 PM)
I don't see the point considering we have what appear to be three competent outfielders at this point. Bruce isn't so good that I'd fill what aren't totally gaping holes. I think we'd like to do something about Avi at some point, but you're not going to make a trade this season and bench Avi in his first full year in MLB.

 

While we would like to consider them competent, the best WAR in the outfield is currently Adam Eaton at 0.0. Additionally, not one of them has a wRC+ over 93 or an ISO over 140. You absolutely need power out of your corner positions and our lack of it is a large reason for why the Sox are dead last in offense in the league. If Bruce were on the Sox right now, he would immediately have the best WAR of any position player. I am trying to think big picture here. This team needs to infuse offense while improving it's defense. Bruce is a massive upgrade offensively over Avi and a slightly better defender. Sure, I would love for the Sox to go after Jason Heyward, someone who provides value both offensively and defensively, but I know the Sox wouldnt go anywhere near that type of contract. Bruce seems like the type of move that would make sense, especially if they could find a taker for LaRoche.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 03:48 PM)
While we would like to consider them competent, the best WAR in the outfield is currently Adam Eaton at 0.0. Additionally, not one of them has a wRC+ over 93 or an ISO over 140.

 

Not worried about Melky. He had a tough first couple months, a lot of which is attributable to bad luck. Sure, his power has been hard to find, but pretty much everyone in the lineups has been. Melky will earn his contract when all is said and done. I also don't worry about Eaton - just a tough year so far.

 

Bruce is a fine player, but he really isn't the type of the guy the Sox should add. I do agree with you general sentiment though - that being, the Sox need to figure out C, 3B and RF/or DH this offseason. I personally am not ready to kick the can on Avi, so Bruce to me doesn't make a ton of sense. But as I said earlier, if they're willing to trade basically as a salary dump with maybe a B level prospect going back, it starts to make a little sense. But I just don't see that as likely, and Bruce is the type of player that have not worked out well for the Sox at all in recent history.

Edited by ChiSox59
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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 02:42 PM)
Avi has proven a pretty useless major league piece at this point. He is weak hitting, atrocious fielding corner outfielder who doesnt walk and strikes out a bunch. He has been below replacement level for his career thus far. I would rather have the "proven veteran" with the 100 pt higher ISO manning a position that requires you to be a power hitter.

Avi needs to improve - and he certainly may. He needs to pull the ball some. Sox would rarely develop a young player given the patience for them in these parts.

But I've seen so many of these veterans on their even or downward plane, immediately trend downward fast.

The contract is heavy and he'd cost more than Avi.

Patching with veterans has failed miserably.

Edited by GreenSox
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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 07:42 PM)
Avi has proven a pretty useless major league piece at this point. He is weak hitting, atrocious fielding corner outfielder who doesnt walk and strikes out a bunch. He has been below replacement level for his career thus far. I would rather have the "proven veteran" with the 100 pt higher ISO manning a position that requires you to be a power hitter.

Not saying you are wrong, but I didn't realize Avi stunk this much. Is he this big a disaster or are you exaggerating?

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 11:00 PM)
Avi needs to improve - and he certainly may. He needs to pull the ball some. Sox would rarely develop a young player given the patience for them in these parts.

But I've seen so many of these veterans on their even or downward plane, immediately trend downward fast.

The contract is heavy and he'd cost more than Avi.

Patching with veterans has failed miserably.

 

excatly..... but remember avi is young. this may be his first yr without getter hurt and his first yr period. he is going to get much better.

 

big mistake to trade him.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 04:48 PM)
While we would like to consider them competent, the best WAR in the outfield is currently Adam Eaton at 0.0. Additionally, not one of them has a wRC+ over 93 or an ISO over 140. You absolutely need power out of your corner positions and our lack of it is a large reason for why the Sox are dead last in offense in the league. If Bruce were on the Sox right now, he would immediately have the best WAR of any position player. I am trying to think big picture here. This team needs to infuse offense while improving it's defense. Bruce is a massive upgrade offensively over Avi and a slightly better defender. Sure, I would love for the Sox to go after Jason Heyward, someone who provides value both offensively and defensively, but I know the Sox wouldnt go anywhere near that type of contract. Bruce seems like the type of move that would make sense, especially if they could find a taker for LaRoche.

 

Eaton has been a carbon copy of his 2014 self since the beginning of May and I'm making the leap of faith that Melky's recent production is going to become the norm as it has the past few seasons. Avi sticks out here because his defense hurts his value so badly but he is also IMO the highest upside bat as well as the one who could most plausibly take leaps forward.

 

It's not so much that Bruce wouldn't be an improvement, since he probably would be, but the marginal gain compared to getting a lesser player at a different position makes it not worth it to me.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 05:32 PM)
Not saying you are wrong, but I didn't realize Avi stunk this much. Is he this big a disaster or are you exaggerating?

 

 

Doesn't look great so far. He needs about 1500 plate appearances though regardless of what Soxtalk thinks.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 09:04 PM)
Doesn't look great so far. He needs about 1500 plate appearances though regardless of what Soxtalk thinks.

He'll get that...the problem is that "teams that are trying to compete right now" can't afford too many positions where guys are working in and adapting.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 08:25 PM)
He'll get that...the problem is that "teams that are trying to compete right now" can't afford too many positions where guys are working in and adapting.

 

 

And that is the one thing I have agreed with you on. They obviously saw Sale/Q/Abreu and decided to expedite the rebuild but guys like Avi, Micah, etc truly need a ton of time before anyone reaches final conclusions.

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28 years old and since 2010: 254 /329/468 115 OPS+. Bats left, kind of all over the place on defence (has had a +17 and +18 DRS, but also a -7 season). You get him for this year, and next.

 

I wouldn't totally be against it, but it depends on what the Reds want.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 05:32 PM)
Not saying you are wrong, but I didn't realize Avi stunk this much. Is he this big a disaster or are you exaggerating?

 

I mean, the numbers are there for everyone. He has his lowest ISO, wOBA, SLG%, K%, OPS, etc. of his young career this season and hasn't shown any real signs of improving either offensively or defensively. He still takes awful angles on balls in the OF and has limited range despite being blessed with his "speed".

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 13, 2015 -> 11:40 PM)
Give up on a young player

2 years left on deal

expensive;

average defensively

Low OBP

High K

another stopgap

We've seen this act before and it's an approach that has consistently FAILED.

Bruce has posted an OBP above league average 5 of the last 6 years, with the one exception being last year's injury-caused down year. He's a good hitter with plus power and he even handles lefties well, something that would satisfy a lot of people who are tired of LaRoche. How long all of that is set to continue and whether it would with a team/league change are up for debate.

 

There are reasons this makes sense and reasons it doesn't. Good thread. :)

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 02:55 PM)
Bruce has posted an OBP above league average 5 of the last 6 years, with the one exception being last year's injury-caused down year. He's a good hitter with plus power and he even handles lefties well, something that would satisfy a lot of people who are tired of LaRoche. How long all of that is set to continue and whether it would with a team/league change are up for debate.

 

There are reasons this makes sense and reasons it doesn't. Good thread. :)

 

for me, getting Bruce if cincy is trying to do a salary cut. then maybe.

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