OmarComing25 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) http://grantland.com/the-triangle/trading-...er-loan-system/ Bill Barnwell of Grantland suggests a player loan system like soccer in Europe has. He uses Sale as his prime example of a player that could be loaned to another team instead of wasting the rest of his season. Interesting idea but I still don't think I'd trust another team with Sale even with the rules in place. Edited July 14, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Found this to be a really interesting article and great read. I do agree that it would at a ton of excitement and if done right, could actually be a scenario where the large market teams don't necessarily win as if the team holding the player had to still make the payment, it essentially means small market teams could get a well paid star for the stretch run (obviously at the cost of a prospect). When I initially read the article I thought it would be terrible, but concept of leaving / allowing just 1 player per team and I think it would be extremely interesting and would also enhance the drama of the deadline, etc. I think this would be a fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It would be fascinating, but I think I'd hate to see it. Chris Sale wins the World Series in Houston. Decided he likes it there. Demands a trade to Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) It would be fascinating, but I think I'd hate to see it. Chris Sale wins the World Series in Houston. Decided he likes it there. Demands a trade to Houston. Welcome to European soccer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 So who picks up the bill if a career altering injury happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would absolutely hate this. Every playoff franchise would get a bunch of ringers every year, and it wouldn't even feel like it was the same franchise that actually got through the season in the first place. I understand that trades for pending free agents are kind of halfway there already, but as a fan, I can at least consider the rental player a "part of my team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) I would absolutely hate this. Every playoff franchise would get a bunch of ringers every year, and it wouldn't even feel like it was the same franchise that actually got through the season in the first place. I understand that trades for pending free agents are kind of halfway there already, but as a fan, I can at least consider the rental player a "part of my team." Well the article suggested you can get one loan per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) I would absolutely hate this. Every playoff franchise would get a bunch of ringers every year, and it wouldn't even feel like it was the same franchise that actually got through the season in the first place. I understand that trades for pending free agents are kind of halfway there already, but as a fan, I can at least consider the rental player a "part of my team." Well one thing to point out is, you would only be able to acquire 1 player on loan (so it isn't as if you could acquire a new roster...just one guy). I do agree, that it would mean numerous stars trade hands. It could also be extremely exciting. Maybe you add an extra wrinkle that you could only do it every other year (which would further dilute what changes hands). The big wild card is what happens when an injury happens and well, lets be honest, they would happen. You also lose the ability to control the pitch counts, etc, of your player so they could run your pitcher into the ground and thus sets you back the following year. I would think this would be a major benefit for small market teams. While rebuilding, they might have a star player who they could leverage to gain more assets (and thus rebuild faster). When I first read the title I thought I would totally hate it, but when I read the restrictions put in place and fact that money wasn't really going to be the factor, it became far more intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) So who picks up the bill if a career altering injury happens? The article sort of addressed that...poorly "If Sale were to get injured, either team would have the option of canceling the loan agreement, with any/all players involved returning to their original clubs." That is not a solution. Let's say we send Sale to Houston. They get five good starts out of him and he ends up getting hurt, so we send back the prospect? What?? I would be screaming bloody murder for about 100 reasons if this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 03:30 PM) Well one thing to point out is, you would only be able to acquire 1 player on loan (so it isn't as if you could acquire a new roster...just one guy). I do agree, that it would mean numerous stars trade hands. It could also be extremely exciting. Maybe you add an extra wrinkle that you could only do it every other year (which would further dilute what changes hands). The big wild card is what happens when an injury happens and well, lets be honest, they would happen. You also lose the ability to control the pitch counts, etc, of your player so they could run your pitcher into the ground and thus sets you back the following year. I would think this would be a major benefit for small market teams. While rebuilding, they might have a star player who they could leverage to gain more assets (and thus rebuild faster). When I first read the title I thought I would totally hate it, but when I read the restrictions put in place and fact that money wasn't really going to be the factor, it became far more intriguing. The restrictions make it intriguing, but this just seems like such a bad idea. And I know FanGraphs has the Sox at 7.8% chance of making the playoffs, but what if Sale and Abreu lead them to the second WC spot? That's way more exciting. I also feel like we'd see "White Flag" trades every year as stars start to demand being put on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Well the article suggested you can get one loan per year. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Well one thing to point out is, you would only be able to acquire 1 player on loan (so it isn't as if you could acquire a new roster...just one guy). I do agree, that it would mean numerous stars trade hands. It could also be extremely exciting. Maybe you add an extra wrinkle that you could only do it every other year (which would further dilute what changes hands). The big wild card is what happens when an injury happens and well, lets be honest, they would happen. You also lose the ability to control the pitch counts, etc, of your player so they could run your pitcher into the ground and thus sets you back the following year. I would think this would be a major benefit for small market teams. While rebuilding, they might have a star player who they could leverage to gain more assets (and thus rebuild faster). When I first read the title I thought I would totally hate it, but when I read the restrictions put in place and fact that money wasn't really going to be the factor, it became far more intriguing. Yeah, I just don't see the issue with just trading for the guy, though. I don't know. I don't like the "feel" of it, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) I don't like the "feel" of it, I guess. There are a lot of potential conflicts of interest. I don't think we should be taking ideas from soccer anyway, soccer is dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 No. Sox would just screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm intrigued. What if you could only loan to the other league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) I'm intrigued. What if you could only loan to the other league? Well for starters, I think most teams will disallow their loan players from playing against them. Most teams will probably never loan to a division rival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 14, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Well for starters, I think most teams will disallow their loan players from playing against them. Most teams will probably never loan to a division rival. What if you loaned a player to the NL, then went on a run and ended up playing one of your own guys in the playoffs. Crazy possibilities. I realize this is absurd but I think baseball should, to some extent, think outside the box and if player movement at deadline really is going to be minimized (due to addition of wild card team) then I think something else to spark the craze, would be worth while, without majorly shifting the landscape. If you followed Bmags and only allowed it to a team in another league and then adjusted the rules so that loans could only occur during month of July (no early loaning) and then just ensure that interleague play was done earlier in the year, you could essentially ensure that unless you made the series, you would never face a "loaned" player and if you did, it would just be another intriguing story line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Deadspin responded to this article http://deadspin.com/what-is-the-value-of-a...game-1717963147 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 15, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Deadspin responded to this article http://deadspin.com/what-is-the-value-of-a...game-1717963147 Do you agree with that? Seems like mandatory deadspin contrarianism, in that they believe in something only in that it allows them to take the opposite stance of an espn article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 15, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) Do you agree with that? Seems like mandatory deadspin contrarianism, in that they believe in something only in that it allows them to take the opposite stance of an espn article. It is standard, but I think a loan system in the MLB would carry a lot more impact and raise a lot more problems than the loan system in the Soccer leagues. I would be furious if Sale blew out his arm and all the sox got were some prospects for their troubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 15, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) It is standard, but I think a loan system in the MLB would carry a lot more impact and raise a lot more problems than the loan system in the Soccer leagues. I would be furious if Sale blew out his arm and all the sox got were some prospects for their troubles. Yeah, I just think the "is there no value to watching games" is pedantic. Zach Lowe is clearly making that reference in regard to finding superstar talent. His whole column addresses "is this worth it?" by evaluating both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 He does bring up a good point. Even if we never make it to the playoffs while Sale is a member of the White Sox, he does bring a certain sort of value to the fans by giving us the opportunity to follow his career every 5th day and watch him pitch. If he ends up breaking some team records, wins a Cy Young or two, and gets his number retired, I would consider that to be providing a lot of benefit to me as a fan, even if the games he pitched were "meaningless" in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 One thing that the soccer loan addresses that makes no sense in MLB (except maybe for a brandon belt situation), is there is a need in soccer to give younger players a shot playing as a starter in a top league rather than being on the bench. That isn't really a helpful scenario in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Donald Fehr is screaming in his grave Edited July 16, 2015 by Joshua Strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jul 15, 2015 -> 10:30 PM) Donald Fehr is screaming in his grave Or he is screaming from his home, because he is isnt in his grave just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Why in the world would the White Sox want to "loan" Chris Sale or any other player to another team for them to abuse? Its the human equivalent of a rental car. Would anyone really ever want to buy a used rental car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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