Molto Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 THANK YOU CERB. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has to say that. You may think KW is a bad GM, but all you guys were saying is how stupid he would be if he traded Konerko for Ortiz, KNOWING that the Giants wouldn't accept anything less. and then get upset when we don't land him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 All I really would like to have are the transcripts of what went on. Until then, none of us can really know what happened. Maybe, KW is getting smarter and is turning down deals instead of being pressed into making deals. I'm putting a lot of faith in him and I said I would give him one more year so I'm doing just that. I think in a year, he will prove himself to be a good gm, if I'm wrong, I'll go out and admit it and will hope he gets canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by HawkDJ Originally posted by LDF Originally posted by HawkDJRight on Cerb! I'm with you. I'm not fully convinced that no matter what move KW makes or doesn't make, it will be heavily criticized. and with his stellar tract record for making outstanding trades, rightfully so. :metal Yeah he makes bad trades and crappy trades and terrible trades etc. But that doesn't mean people need to bash his every move...because he has made good trades if people haven't noticed. oh yeah, i should really cheer those trades and you expect me to be happy and full of cheer(xmas) because he f***s up. come on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Molto You may think KW is a bad GM, but all you guys were saying is how stupid he would be if he traded Konerko for Ortiz, KNOWING that the Giants wouldn't accept anything less. and then get upset when we don't land him? oh yeah, his crediablity with the other gm's is right up there with let say........ ummmm billy beane. oh yeah i can see the comparision right now. wow. such talent as a gm. we are save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnAll I really would like to have are the transcripts of what went on. Until then, none of us can really know what happened. Maybe, KW is getting smarter and is turning down deals instead of being pressed into making deals. I'm putting a lot of faith in him and I said I would give him one more year so I'm doing just that. I think in a year, he will prove himself to be a good gm, if I'm wrong, I'll go out and admit it and will hope he gets canned. yep, he is such a smart one, esp with the other talent in the trade esp with the almost trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 umm you missed the point LDF. the point is every damn mistake is attributed to Williams. whether he did or didn't do this move, he was gonna ripped on. damn, you guys want to hate him, okay, but don't just blame him just to blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Moltoumm you missed the point LDF. the point is every damn mistake is attributed to Williams. whether he did or didn't do this move, he was gonna ripped on. damn, you guys want to hate him, okay, but don't just blame him just to blame him. i will blame him when i see him f***ing up. but that was not the way the org subject started. i don;t jump on him just for to jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 come on ldf you know you like to jump on kw just to jump on him...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by hotsoxchick1come on ldf you know you like to jump on kw just to jump on him...... oh yeah, b/c in is incompentent fool, that is way over his head and is in most cases has gotten fleeced in his trades. :metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 awe hell never mind you missed my point........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by hotsoxchick1awe hell never mind you missed my point........... oh i got it and i was coming back with irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjav829 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Cerb, I would absolutely love to hear why you think KW has done a good job with this team since he took over. The team has regressed since he took over going from a playoff team, to a team lucky to hit the .500 mark. Heres a good question. What moves has KW made since taking over to improve this team? I would also like to hear your defense of KW's childish antics in the clubhouse, and his constant paranoia which has alienated the players. I am tired of waiting for young kids to develop. All prospects are just that... prospects. For once, I want a sure thing. Not a pitcher that everyone thinks has the stuff to win 20 games. A sure thing. KW has done nothing to acquire a player of that kind. I have defended him in the past. I liked the idea behind the Ritchie trade at the time, I hated the Sirotka trade. But I have had it with him. He has done nothing to improve this team. His best move while being a GM... Damaso Marte. Thats sad when the best move you have made in 2+ years has been acquiring a relief pitcher. You want me to stop ripping KW, go ahead and give me a solid argument for the questions I asked above. Maybe then you can convince me that he hasn't done such a bad job, but until then, I'll say whatever the f*** I want to say about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I understand everyones anger towards the subject, but all I want to know, are what restraints does KW have tied around him. He has a cheap owner that isn't willing to let him add salary, which means he has to be real creative to get anything done. Its hard to get someone cheap when a team is looking to dump payroll and you can't add it. Its also hard to get someone if your owner simply says no. Right now, I think KW is in a tough tough position and if he somehow develops a winner he will of done it against the odds. I'm not calling him great, but I ain't going to blame him for not making the Ortiz deal till I know exactly what he turned down. Also, last I looked thats the only deal he's not made so far this offseason. The Expos deal is still out their. Who knows what will happen with that or how close they are. Their is still a legit chance we could end up with any of them. You can't simply bank on one player, otherwise you'll end up paying way too much. In the past thats exactly what Kw's done. Hopefully this time he's made a list, checked it twice, and is going to find out who fits just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by LDF Originally posted by hotsoxchick1awe hell never mind you missed my point........... oh i got it and i was coming back with irony. as long as you got it baby.. then all is right with the world........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 oh yeah i forgot that you learn to have clubhouse spie stirring up prob's. what was that, gm 101? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnI understand everyones anger towards the subject, but all I want to know, are what restraints does KW have tied around him. He has a cheap owner that isn't willing to let him add salary, which means he has to be real creative to get anything done. Its hard to get someone cheap when a team is looking to dump payroll and you can't add it. Its also hard to get someone if your owner simply says no. Right now, I think KW is in a tough tough position and if he somehow develops a winner he will of done it against the odds. yep that that is what a good gm does, being creative and do what you can. hasn't oak had been under a greater restraint and yet they have done well in their trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 102.... 101 is for learing who to trust at that position........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by LDF Originally posted by ChisoxfnI understand everyones anger towards the subject, but all I want to know, are what restraints does KW have tied around him. He has a cheap owner that isn't willing to let him add salary, which means he has to be real creative to get anything done. Its hard to get someone cheap when a team is looking to dump payroll and you can't add it. Its also hard to get someone if your owner simply says no. Right now, I think KW is in a tough tough position and if he somehow develops a winner he will of done it against the odds. yep that that is what a good gm does, being creative and do what you can. hasn't oak had been under a greater restraint and yet they have done well in their trades. Good point, but its pretty easy to do when you are looking for hitting. Typically you can find decent hitting out their. It is pretty easy to look good when you have Mulder, Zito and Hudson in the rotation. They were fools for giving up Lidle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Chisoxfn Originally posted by LDF Originally posted by ChisoxfnI understand everyones anger towards the subject, but all I want to know, are what restraints does KW have tied around him. He has a cheap owner that isn't willing to let him add salary, which means he has to be real creative to get anything done. Its hard to get someone cheap when a team is looking to dump payroll and you can't add it. Its also hard to get someone if your owner simply says no. Right now, I think KW is in a tough tough position and if he somehow develops a winner he will of done it against the odds. yep that that is what a good gm does, being creative and do what you can. hasn't oak had been under a greater restraint and yet they have done well in their trades. Good point, but its pretty easy to do when you are looking for hitting. Typically you can find decent hitting out their. It is pretty easy to look good when you have Mulder, Zito and Hudson in the rotation. They were fools for giving up Lidle. oh but you forget that he had a chance to give up howry for i forgot who? better yet that lousy trade with pit. trading for clayton and his salary that could've been put to better use. put it all together, he had the player to do something and he f***ed up and put himself behind the 8 ball. it was his doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Jjav829Cerb, I would absolutely love to hear why you think KW has done a good job with this team since he took over. The team has regressed since he took over going from a playoff team, to a team lucky to hit the .500 mark. Heres a good question. What moves has KW made since taking over to improve this team? I would also like to hear your defense of KW's childish antics in the clubhouse, and his constant paranoia which has alienated the players. I am tired of waiting for young kids to develop. All prospects are just that... prospects. For once, I want a sure thing. Not a pitcher that everyone thinks has the stuff to win 20 games. A sure thing. KW has done nothing to acquire a player of that kind. I have defended him in the past. I liked the idea behind the Ritchie trade at the time, I hated the Sirotka trade. But I have had it with him. He has done nothing to improve this team. His best move while being a GM... Damaso Marte. Thats sad when the best move you have made in 2+ years has been acquiring a relief pitcher. You want me to stop ripping KW, go ahead and give me a solid argument for the questions I asked above. Maybe then you can convince me that he hasn't done such a bad job, but until then, I'll say whatever the f*** I want to say about him. He won't answer you Jjav. The KW supporters love to defend KW because his critics are critical of KW's every move. They defend a GM who brought in Royce K-layton, a GM that traded 3 young arms for a potential 20 game loser in 2002, a GM that got relatively nothing in return for Ray Durham, a GM who throws temper tantrums in the clubhouse when the team loses games, a GM that has "hall monitors" reporting back certain players every move and comments they may have made, a GM who trades closer-for-closer when we need a starter, a GM who is so egomaniacal that he goes to the Chicago media in the Fall of 2002 and spouts wisdom tantamount to telling Sox fans..... "Don't be so critical of me..... after all, I acquired Damaso Marte.....", and so on and so forth. Yes, many of us were critical that KW wasn't able to make the Ortiz deal happen. I, for one, did not want to see PK go, and no, I wasn't privy to the discussions that KW and SF's GM had. But newspapers and sports networks WERE REPORTING that the White Sox and SF were working on a deal that would send Ortiz to the White Sox for 3 minor leaguers. Who gives a flying fig if Gammons was the source..... it was reported. And in a fashion that has been typical of KW's tenure as GM, he was out-muscled and wasn't able to get the deal done. In KW's approximate 3 seasons as White Sox GM, he has taken a Division Champion and turned it into a team that struggles to stay above .500. I'll get off KW's back when he proves to me that he is competent enough to GM a MLB Organization. Until then, I WILL BE CRITICAL OF EVERY f***ING MOVE HE MAKES!!!!! :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 P.S. I WILL BE CRITICAL OF EVERY f***ING MOVE KW DOESN'T MAKE TOO!!!!! :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG Originally posted by baggio202instead of telling everyone to shut the f*** up why dont you try and defend your man...oh wait you cant..thats why you resort to telling critics to shut the f*** up... when KW pulls off a trade like danny evans did last year , odalis perez and brian jordan for gary sheffield , a trade that would be a huge winner for the sox , then ill shut the f*** up...until then..blow it out your asses:**** That's why Danny f***ing Evans traded away his two best prospects for Paul f***ing Shuey. Evans sucks more than KW, face it. yeah , KW trading wells , fogg and lowe for ritchie was so much better...what was i thinking??... and shuey was 8-2 with a 3.30 era last year...ritchie was 6 -16 with a 6.06 era..cleveland got two prospects that may or may not develop...pittsburgh got two starting pitcher that already have developed..but again KW is the better gm:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by baggio202 Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG Originally posted by baggio202instead of telling everyone to shut the f*** up why dont you try and defend your man...oh wait you cant..thats why you resort to telling critics to shut the f*** up... when KW pulls off a trade like danny evans did last year , odalis perez and brian jordan for gary sheffield , a trade that would be a huge winner for the sox , then ill shut the f*** up...until then..blow it out your asses:**** That's why Danny f***ing Evans traded away his two best prospects for Paul f***ing Shuey. Evans sucks more than KW, face it. yeah , KW trading wells , fogg and lowe for ritchie was so much better...what was i thinking??... didn't you know that is the requirement to make him a great gm? come on! :metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by theoldromanOh come on, I gave this worthless pile of dog feces a chance and all hes done is screwup. Why, exactly, should he have sat on his hands? To miss out on stars like Ortiz and Byrd, which, might I add, he did anyways? You are officially the dumbest f*** alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Lets calm down here fellas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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