To all the KW haters...

[awesomefan]

Cerbaho: YES!!!! Most of us regulars here know that it is said that Kenny Williams basically built most of the current White Sox farm system.

 

I just flat out don't like KW's attitude & ways. KW is right to hold onto most of our young prospects & not do too much trading right now, but he already got rid of a bunch of our best young pitchers in the Ritchie trade & we all know how that has turned out:puke

 

Another thing that burns me about KW is that he got rid of Ray Durham.

 

I also really hate losing Good Guys like Sean Lowe, Keith Foulke, Mark Johnson & my beloved Herbert Perry, but I can live with those decisions.

 

The best thing KW has done is get Billy Koch. Surely Billy won't turn out to have a David Wells attitude:puke

 

I'm glad Sandy Alomar is back too, but how was it we got rid of him in the first place? Didn't we just send him on his merry way with no trades involved. Sorry, I have a very bad memory on some things.

 

On another note: Just because this board does not ban profanity is no reason to talk down to & use so much profanity toward fellow Sox fans when they don't agree with you. If you don't care to get any respect here then continue on.

[baggio202]

cerb.. a couple of things..

 

kip wells pitched all of 1/2 season in the minors before he was promoted to the sox...the concensus amongst major league scouts is not to give up on a young pitcher until he hits 27 or logs 400ML innings pitched...kip wells was 24 and had a little over 200 IP when we dumped him for that bum ritchie...for that KW should never be forgiven..its the trade that will ultimately difine his career here as a failure..i really dont think he will ever overcome it...

 

as for von joshua...he got fired because he couldnt keep his mouth shut...and thats a no-no in this org...he repeatedly questioned JM's methods because he felt guys like clayton and baines..hitting in the low 100's were coming in late so they didnt have to take BP and when von questioned them they just blew him off...manuel did nothing about this..except fine them 100 bucks for being late each day...von questioned if manuel's methods were working because he thought jerry was way too lax with the situation...this was reported by joe cowley of the southowne...the same guy who reported about how the players all reffered to royce as "clayton's island" because he never made himself available to his teammates...bobby howry , if memory servs me correct , was his harshist critic...saying if clayton wants to alienate himself thats fine but he was also becomeing a clubhouse distraction which he didnt elaborate on...

 

if you want to take the time you can look these articles up in the daily southtown archieves...

[LDF]

Originally posted by baggio202

 

 

if you want to take the time you can look these articles up in the daily southtown archieves...

 

 

bags, didn't you know, cerbs knows more than sports writers.

[Chisoxfn]

Geeze, things are getting a little out of hand here. Lets not let opinions turn into personal attacks.

 

Anyway, I stick to my stance that KW isn't anywhere near as bad as everyone says he is. He isn't an hall of fame gm either, but the guy does a lot of things real good, and as long as he continues to learn (I've seen a lot of growth out of him) then I will be happy.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

Geeze, things are getting a little out of hand here.  Lets not let opinions turn into personal attacks. 

 

It's only one person doing the above Chisoxfn. As much baseball knowledge as he has, it's too bad he can't make his point without referring to some as "idiots" and "ass(es)" when, in some cases, he obviously doesn't grasp what the thread is about or how to point-counterpoint an opinion without belittling the poster he disagrees with.

 

Perhaps you should address a thread to him about "not let(ting) opinions turn into personal attacks" because, the only time others get personal on this board, is when provoked by him.

[LDF]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

Geeze, things are getting a little out of hand here.  Lets not let opinions turn into personal attacks. 

 

Anyway, I stick to my stance that KW isn't anywhere near as bad as everyone says he is.  He isn't an hall of fame gm either, but the guy does a lot of things real good, and as long as he continues to learn (I've seen a lot of growth out of him) then I will be happy.

 

well i like to see that learning curve. he is what we are stuck with like it or not and i will give him credit when i see it. until them i will respect your opinion.

[soxfan420]

i kind of like kw he knows his minior league talent. I think he is learning to trade for major league talent and sign major league contracts. he just need to learn. he kind of jumped in to the Gm role without any mentoring.

[LDF]

Originally posted by soxfan420

i kind of like kw he knows his minior league talent. I think he is learning to trade for major league talent and sign major league contracts. he just need to learn. he kind of jumped in to the Gm role without any mentoring.

 

when someone is in that position, you should know what you are doing. i am for the affirmative action in promoting him. but if he was qualified. you had some other good people out there. i am not talking about evans, even tho he might have been qualified than kw.

 

kw admitted that he went against peoples opinion in trading for clayton, b/c he still thought he could trade him later.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by Ncorgbl

"Face it, we weren't ever going to get Byrd, or anyone of high profile for FA. The only other option is trading the farm. Do any of you want to take a chance on one year, instead of hoping the farm will come through? Do any of you even f***ing know that KW basically BUILT our farm system?"

 

 

Williams RAN the farm systrem, but he did not BUILD it.  Get your facts straight before you spout off.

 

Oh give me a break. Are you trying to say Duane Shaffer and his crack team of scouts built the farm system?

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by LDF

Originally posted by soxfan420

i kind of like kw he knows his minior league talent. I think he is learning to trade for major league talent and sign major league contracts. he just need to learn. he kind of jumped in to the Gm role without any mentoring.

 

when someone is in that position, you should know what you are doing. i am for the affirmative action in promoting him. but if he was qualified. you had some other good people out there. i am not talking about evans, even tho he might have been qualified than kw.

 

kw admitted that he went against peoples opinion in trading for clayton, b/c he still thought he could trade him later.

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

[baggio202]

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

[LDF]

Originally posted by baggio202

 

 

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

a little later when everybody how much kw is over his head, dave dombski (sp) was available and for a long time as well.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

Yeah, trading your top two prospects for Paul Shuey makes you light years ahead of KW. That's like tarding Rauch and Honel for a good solid reliever.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by LDF

Originally posted by baggio202

 

 

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

a little later when everybody how much kw is over his head, dave dombski (sp) was available and for a long time as well.

 

JR wouldn't hrie Dave Dombrowski, he would only hire within the organization, and I believe Dave was with the Marlins.

[baggio202]

Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

Yeah, trading your top two prospects for Paul Shuey makes you light years ahead of KW. That's like tarding Rauch and Honel for a good solid reliever.

 

or trading wells and fogg for ritchie??

 

show me a similiar trade that KW made that was a successful as sheffield for jordan/perez???...

 

has any of those prospects paid any dividends for cleveland yet???...what happens if both flop???...then was it such a bad trade??..evans made a move to win last season..didnt work out but atleast he tried...in '01 when the sox had a chance to make a move to go after cleveland we ended up trading james baldwin for guys that arnt even in the organization anymore...we didnt even take the chance of winning and got absolutely nothing in return...yeah..kw is great

[soxfan420]

wut about lofton for diaz???? that was a good trade

[baggio202]

Originally posted by soxfan420

wut about lofton for diaz???? that was a good trade

 

was it???...dont you have to wait and see if diaz has a successful career..what happens if he never makes it???

[LDF]

Originally posted by baggio202

Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

Yeah, trading your top two prospects for Paul Shuey makes you light years ahead of KW. That's like tarding Rauch and Honel for a good solid reliever.

 

or trading wells and fogg for ritchie??

 

show me a similiar trade that KW made that was a successful as sheffield for jordan/perez???...

 

has any of those prospects paid any dividends for cleveland yet???...what happens if both flop???...then was it such a bad trade??..evans made a move to win last season..didnt work out but atleast he tried...in '01 when the sox had a chance to make a move to go after cleveland we ended up trading james baldwin for guys that arnt even in the organization anymore...we didnt even take the chance of winning and got absolutely nothing in return...yeah..kw is great

 

when dave dombroski resign from the marlins as gm on nov 4, 2001 and then sign on with det on may 10 2002. noone can tell me that the sox couldn't have gone after him and get him aboard.

 

the only positive dividend that has paid off in ref to trades has been marte and the if we got, jimmenez.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by LDF

Originally posted by baggio202

Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

Yeah, trading your top two prospects for Paul Shuey makes you light years ahead of KW. That's like tarding Rauch and Honel for a good solid reliever.

 

or trading wells and fogg for ritchie??

 

show me a similiar trade that KW made that was a successful as sheffield for jordan/perez???...

 

has any of those prospects paid any dividends for cleveland yet???...what happens if both flop???...then was it such a bad trade??..evans made a move to win last season..didnt work out but atleast he tried...in '01 when the sox had a chance to make a move to go after cleveland we ended up trading james baldwin for guys that arnt even in the organization anymore...we didnt even take the chance of winning and got absolutely nothing in return...yeah..kw is great

 

when dave dombroski resign from the marlins as gm on nov 4, 2001 and then sign on with det on may 10 2002. noone can tell me that the sox couldn't have gone after him and get him aboard.

 

the only positive dividend that has paid off in ref to trades has been marte and the if we got, jimmenez.

 

What are you smoking? Cruceta and Rodriguez already made it to the bigs last year, along with Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips, who were accquired from MTL. Not to mention Billy Traber who was accquired from NYM for Roberto Alomar.

 

Also, getting a reliever isn't exactly looked upon as trying to win it all in most circles.

 

EDIT: Traber didn't make it last year, whoops.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

"Oh give me a break. Are you trying to say Duane Shaffer and his crack team of scouts built the farm system?"

 

A break? No, an education. While and before Williams RAN the farm system, who did he trade for? Who did he sign? Schuler, and all the GMs before him did that, with knowledge garnered from the reports from the scouting department. Since KW has become GM, what has happened to the farm system? Do you think it can help this coming season? There's no one there!:huhKenny's CLUELESS!

[baggio202]

cerb...a sept call up doesnt mean those guys made it....time will tell on that...but all you do is keep harping on that shuey trade...that trade didnt hurt LA like the ritchie trade hurt us....the ritchie was much more devestating to the sox...it was a worse deal for williams...plus i asked you thjis once nd you refuse to answer...when has KW made a move similiar to the perez/jordan for sheffield move that evans made??....you know a major move where there is no doubt who got the better of the deal...

 

danny evans is doing an excellent job in LA...and it shows in their record...i think you refuse to admit it because then its just another realization of lousy this fanchise really is...

 

hope you are prepared for 75 wins..because thats about where we will be at if this slide continues

[Cerbaho-WG]

Originally posted by baggio202

cerb...a sept call up doesnt mean those guys made it....time will tell on that...but all you do is keep harping on that shuey trade...that trade didnt hurt LA like the ritchie trade hurt us....the ritchie was much more devestating to the sox...it was a worse deal for williams...plus i asked you thjis once nd you refuse to answer...when has KW made a move similiar to the perez/jordan for sheffield move that evans made??....you know a major move where there is no doubt who got the better of the deal...

 

danny evans is doing an excellent job in LA...and it shows in their record...i think you refuse to admit it because then its just another realization of lousy this fanchise really is...

 

hope you are prepared for 75 wins..because thats about where we will be at if this slide continues

 

KW hasn't made a trade like that, I doubt he'll get such a great deal as Evans did for Odalis unless you're Billy Beane. I'd hardly cosnider LA a better franchise than we are, right now. They spend around 50 million more per year than we do at the Major-League level, and that's probably why they have a better record.

 

The Shuey trade will bite Evans on the ass, Rodriguez was the Dodgers #1 prospect, and Cruceta was just as solid.

 

Also Ncorgbl, the Sox's farm under KW hasn't been as bad as you make it out to be. The reason it's status has dropped was mainly because Schueler's "wave" of prospects made it. Under KW we've drafted such guys such as Anthony Webster, Andy Gonzalez, Edgar Valera, Danny Haigwood, Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Rodriguez, Mich Schnurstein, etc.

 

Would you like me to go on?

[Chisoxfn]

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

I'm out here in California and trust me, Evans isn't anything. The guy is dismantling and killing the Dodgers. I know he didn't spend a lot of the money, but he has no lineup out here and a real risky pitching staff, ya, one riskier then the Sox.

 

He has his best pitcher coming off career bests in innings and everything and everyone else is an injury from losing their career. Things are not good their. Evans also doesn't know a thing about the minors.

[Chisoxfn]

Originally posted by baggio202

Originally posted by Cerbaho-WG

Originally posted by baggio202

 

Hate to break it to you, but the only two choices we had for GM were KW or Dan Evans. Pick your poison.

 

evans is light years ahead of KW...atleast he can keep his berries straight

 

Yeah, trading your top two prospects for Paul Shuey makes you light years ahead of KW. That's like tarding Rauch and Honel for a good solid reliever.

 

or trading wells and fogg for ritchie??

 

show me a similiar trade that KW made that was a successful as sheffield for jordan/perez???...

 

has any of those prospects paid any dividends for cleveland yet???...what happens if both flop???...then was it such a bad trade??..evans made a move to win last season..didnt work out but atleast he tried...in '01 when the sox had a chance to make a move to go after cleveland we ended up trading james baldwin for guys that arnt even in the organization anymore...we didnt even take the chance of winning and got absolutely nothing in return...yeah..kw is great

 

That wasn't as sucessful of a trade as everyone says. Jordan is a bum an dhe doesn't want to play in Atlanta. They got a good young pitcher in Perez, but he won't be as good this year and the Dodgers have probably screwed him up cause he was over worked big time last year.

 

Trust me on this. Also, Sheffield is no slouch.

 

That was a decent trade. Lofton for Diaz, that was pretty damn one sided. So was Marte and Yan for Guerrier.

[Chisoxfn]

Originally posted by baggio202

Originally posted by soxfan420

wut about lofton for diaz???? that was a good trade

 

was it???...dont you have to wait and see if diaz has a successful career..what happens if he never makes it???

 

And what was Lofton doing for the Sox?

 

If you aren't going to use a guy you get something of value in return for him. It also opened up the slot for Rowand to play everyday as well as Borchard to get some time.