Yasiel Puig

[BlackSox13]

Dodgers trade is focused on them adding pitching. If you moved Avi, he wouldn't have much value to LA, unless they wanted to have some depth back for Puig (which they very well might). It isn't like they are going to hand every at bat to Ethier (although they have Van Slyke who is solid and could easily handle some more AB's as well). Q is the key piece and I think when push comes to shove, you have to widely consider the move (although I'd have to look into hte detalis of Puig's contract and realistically what his cost would be during next few years.

 

Adding Puig does mean you need to move at least one of Melky / LaRoche / Avi. I'd probably move LaRoche first, as Avi / Melky still have a bit more value in the sense that they can play multiple positions. Would also allow you to save some money. However, I'd also think about moving Avi and a Tim Anderson in a trade to a team to get a top prospect we like (as a 3rd team to help facilitate a prospect move).

I think it's important to note that it's the Dodgers that are desperate for pitching and to shed Puig's contract. By no means are the Sox desperate to move Q which gives them the upper hand in any trade talks involving Q. Again, why would the Sox want a proven head case who's numbers are not all that impressive this year. Also keep in mind who Spiegel works for, The Score.

 

Let's say the Sox are interested in Puig. Due to both the Sox and Dodgers needing to move an outfielder, its likely a third team needs to be brought into the mix in order for it to happen. Not that it could not happen, just adds to the difficulty of the trade.

 

Again, Puig has a s*** attitude and the Dodgers can keep it. If the Dodgers really are desperate to move Puig then trade talks begin with Puig for Samardzija and go from there.

 

No chance I would trade Q for that head case. Just my opinion though.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Well this thread has gotten some action. I'll pat myself on the back....

[Chisoxfn]

I think it's important to note that it's the Dodgers that are desperate for pitching and to shed Puig's contract. By no means are the Sox desperate to move Q which gives them the upper hand in any trade talks involving Q. Again, why would the Sox want a proven head case who's numbers are not all that impressive this year. Also keep in mind who Spiegel works for, The Score.

 

Let's say the Sox are interested in Puig. Due to both the Sox and Dodgers needing to move an outfielder, its likely a third team needs to be brought into the mix in order for it to happen. Not that it could not happen, just adds to the difficulty of the trade.

 

Again, Puig has a s*** attitude and the Dodgers can keep it. If the Dodgers really are desperate to move Puig then trade talks begin with Puig for Samardzija and go from there.

 

No chance I would trade Q for that head case. Just my opinion though.

Yasiel Puig's career OPS+ would be 3rd best in White Sox franchise history (behind only Frank Thomas & Shoeless Joe Jackson). Are you kidding me with his attitude. Last year he put up a 140 OPS+. Also, while Dodgers want pitching, I don't know if they are desperate for it. I'd say Sox are more desperate for positional talent then Dodgers are for pitching. They do have Grienke and Kershaw a top of their rotation. And while the Dodgers might be dangling Puig, lets not act like his contract is a disaster. He is signed to an extremely affordable deal (although he probably will opt out and take arbitration a few times). Still, he's under team control until 2020.

[GGajewski18]

Trading Q for Puig would certainly get some of the burden off Garcia.

 

Trading Shark would never net a return like this. If the Sox could resign Shark and get Puig for Q, you still have a formidable pitching staff.

 

Sale, Shark, Rodon, Johnson, Fulmer? Maybe sign a FA for one year to give Fulmer time.

[Chisoxfn]

Trading Q for Puig would certainly get some of the burden off Garcia.

 

Trading Shark would never net a return like this. If the Sox could resign Shark and get Puig for Q, you still have a formidable pitching staff.

 

Sale, Shark, Rodon, Johnson, Fulmer? Maybe sign a FA for one year to give Fulmer time.

I agree with the above and would be a huge proponent of it.

[GreenSox]

The upside of a Q for Puig package (maybe Sox give up a guy on their side or Dodgers add a name, but primary package being these 2) is going to be with the White Sox, imo.

There's no question about that. I said Q for Puig was fair; I just wouldn't do it because of Puig's immaturity.

Puig has big upside and big risks.

Q is steady.

[BlackSox13]

Yasiel Puig's career OPS+ would be 3rd best in White Sox franchise history (behind only Frank Thomas & Shoeless Joe Jackson). Are you kidding me with his attitude. Last year he put up a 140 OPS+. Also, while Dodgers want pitching, I don't know if they are desperate for it. I'd say Sox are more desperate for positional talent then Dodgers are for pitching. They do have Grienke and Kershaw a top of their rotation. And while the Dodgers might be dangling Puig, lets not act like his contract is a disaster. He is signed to an extremely affordable deal (although he probably will opt out and take arbitration a few times). Still, he's under team control until 2020.

I'm glad you brought up Grienke. His impeding opt out makes the Dodgers even more desperate for a guy like Q.

 

I agree the Sox are in need of hitting talent but not desperate to trade Q. There is a market for both Samardzija and Robertson, both of which can be traded to infuse more hitting talent into the Sox organization.

 

And no, I'm not kidding you about his attitude. His attitude has been written about more than a few times going back to 2013 and here's the latest written about Puig's attitude.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2511284...dgers-teammates

 

I know its the bleacher report but the quotes in the article speak volumes.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm normally the first guy to raise caution flags for attitude problems. But the reality of this team is, they are moribund. I think a little splash might not be a bad thing. As long as he hustles and can get better at hitting the cutoff man, I don't mind the antics too much.

 

I think Q and Avi is an overpay though. Q is one of the most valuable trade chips in baseball and exactly what LAD needs, and you are adding a starting RF who has some potential to be above average overall? Too much. I also don't think they want another OF.

 

Shark, Montas and maybe a lower level prospect (pick one from say 6 to 15 in the system) for Puig makes sense value-wise. Then trade Avi or LaRoche seperately, or possibly package one of them with a prospect like Montas and maybe more to get a truely significant upgrade at catcher or 3B. Finally, trade Alexei and Shark together to a team who needs pitching and a veteran defender for a late season run, to get a middle infield prospect further along than Anderson.

 

Your 2016 rotation is Sale-Rodon-Q-Johnson and a competition between Beck, Fulmer and others for the 5th slot. Or sign a 5th starter for while Fulmer, Danish, Guerrero and others develop. Compare that to the current Sale-Rodon-Q-Shark-Danks, and it's pretty close to as good overall. And you've upgraded an outfield slot, 3B or C, shortstop and maybe DH.

 

Victory!

 

[Chisoxfn]

There's no question about that. I said Q for Puig was fair; I just wouldn't do it because of Puig's immaturity.

Puig has big upside and big risks.

Q is steady.

Is their that much risk in Puig. Even if he's crazy, he's still performing above his contract. I don't see him not being an above average player and would think ultimately, greater injury risk is with a pitcher. When I consider our needs and the complete lack of positional talent, the fact that you could put Puig in the middle of our order and have him help stabilize the defense is huge, imo. Seems like a perfect match as Dodgers get a lot of benefits here as well. Like I said, I'm all for asking for me, but when push comes to shove, I think Puig replacing Q makes us a better team (especially when I factor what we have in the minors).

[knightni]

I think it's important to note that it's the Dodgers that are desperate for pitching and to shed Puig's contract. By no means are the Sox desperate to move Q which gives them the upper hand in any trade talks involving Q. Again, why would the Sox want a proven head case who's numbers are not all that impressive this year. Also keep in mind who Spiegel works for, The Score.

 

Let's say the Sox are interested in Puig. Due to both the Sox and Dodgers needing to move an outfielder, its likely a third team needs to be brought into the mix in order for it to happen. Not that it could not happen, just adds to the difficulty of the trade.

 

Again, Puig has a s*** attitude and the Dodgers can keep it. If the Dodgers really are desperate to move Puig then trade talks begin with Puig for Samardzija and go from there.

 

No chance I would trade Q for that head case. Just my opinion though.

If they're desperate, they should take Q and Danks for Puig.

[Balta1701]

Shark, Montas and maybe a lower level prospect (pick one from say 6 to 15 in the system) for Puig makes sense value-wise.

Generally think you're underselling Puig by a significant amount there. I agree with you on the Quintana value part, but I don't think you've given them very much in that offer.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm glad you brought up Grienke. His impeding opt out makes the Dodgers even more desperate for a guy like Q.

 

I agree the Sox are in need of hitting talent but not desperate to trade Q. There is a market for both Samardzija and Robertson, both of which can be traded to infuse more hitting talent into the Sox organization.

 

And no, I'm not kidding you about his attitude. His attitude has been written about more than a few times going back to 2013 and here's the latest written about Puig's attitude.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2511284...dgers-teammates

 

I know its the bleacher report but the quotes in the article speak volumes.

If you trade Robertson, you aren't getting a game changer back. Roberton's contract is long term and while its fair, it isn't any sort of bargain and the size of that deal is going to put very few teams in play, to be frank. So I don't see how moving Shark / Robertson gives you access to anyone at the level of Puig. Regarding Puig, I live in SoCal, so I'm more then familiar with his attitude. I'm also familiar with how he plays on the field and while he has miscues and issues (showing up on time, etc), when he's on the field, he generally plays overly aggressive and that is the exact opposite of the vast majority of our roster and to be frank, i'd rather have the over aggressive guy then the under aggressive guy.

[Buehrlesque]

For reference, Puig's first-half slash line: .261/.343/.429 with 4 HRs and 1 SB. OPS more than 100 points lower than his career line. Aberration or downward trend?

[Chisoxfn]

If they're desperate, they should take Q and Danks for Puig.

They are in first place with I believe 5 or 6 top 50 prospects (including at least 2 in the top 10 and possibly three...going off of memory here) and a huge payroll. They are not desperate. The White Sox are much more desperate in comparison. Are we desperate to trade Q, no, but we are desperate to improve our current situation, imo. If we aren't, we should be. We need to significantly upgrade our everyday lineup and we don't have significant upgrades on the way in the minors. We do have potential upgrades in the rotation in the minors, but that isn't an area of weakness. We could move those pitchers for position talent but we could also do some combinations and as far as I'm concerned, moving Q (better if you could move Shark, but I would be more surprised if that were to happen) for Puig is just something the White Sox need to do.

[Jose Abreu]

For reference, Puig's first-half slash line: .261/.343/.429 with 4 HRs and 1 SB. OPS more than 100 points lower than his career line. Aberration or downward trend?

Neither. He's always been overrated. Sure, he hasn't been this bad, but he's nowhere near as good as everyone thinks. Also, keep in mind that's in just 43 games. He had a DL stint.

[GreenSox]

Is their that much risk in Puig. Even if he's crazy, he's still performing above his contract.

Immaturity isn't his only risk.

Look at his numbers - they went from great to good to pretty good. Decline, decline.

You value him based off of his first year. He's not a great player right now.

[The Ginger Kid]

I'm normally the first guy to raise caution flags for attitude problems.

I work for a long time dodger season ticket holder and he's pretty plugged in. Puig is a major attitude problem, according to him. "un-coachable" and very selfish.

[Chisoxfn]

Neither. He's always been overrated. Sure, he hasn't been this bad, but he's nowhere near as good as everyone thinks. Also, keep in mind that's in just 43 games. He had a DL stint.

So his 143 and 159 OPS+ were make believe? It isn't like those were over small sample sizes (1.5 years of baseball) including multiple stretches where he was the best player in the game. He's also had some runs where he has struggled. He is very very good and he's very very young. The tools are their, he has production, etc. This isn't some guy who hasn't proven anything. He had one of the best starts to his career of any player in baseball history (and the production matched the tools). Other then people complaining about his attitude and some flaws in his approach, etc (that he more then makes up with thanks to massive tools), what part is overrated.

 

Seems to me that people are severely underrating him because he's got a bad idea. By the way, watch him play, while he might have attitude issues and be prone to mental miscues, this isn't some guy who is loafing it out on the field. He plays with an edge and is extremely aggressive. In fact, most think his struggles this year have been combo of the time off from injuries as well as fact that the Dodgers have messed with him a bit. He needs to play with that edge and the sox need people like him. I also think Abreu and Ramirez would be nice, stabilizing presences in the lockeroom. We can listen to all the reports but right now, the cool thing in the media is to bash Puig's attitude, but I'd much rather watch him then anyone else on our roster not named Sale.

[ChiSox59]

The Sox wouldn't do Q for Puig straight up. If the Sox trade Q, it will be to get an above average ML ready 3B or C, + some other high upside prospects. The Sox definitely would not just throw Avi in the deal in addition.

 

Let's fix the holes we have, not fix something that isn't broken (I am not an Avi hater, and want to give him at least another 1.5 seasons - the dude is young).

Edited July 17, 2015 by ChiSox59

[Balta1701]

The Sox wouldn't do Q for Puig straight up. If the Sox trade Q, it will be to get an above average ML ready 3B or C, + some other high upside prospects. The Sox definitely would not just through Avi in the in addition.

 

Let's fix the holes we have, not fix something that isn't broken (I am not an Avi hater, and want to give him at least another 1.5 seasons, the dude is young).

Puig in RF = the White Sox have a much better chance at competing in 2016.

 

Garcia in RF = not sure why you'd think the White Sox can be competitive with him out there.

 

You can give Avi more time in RF, fine, but build a roster with the expectation that you're not going to be that much better than this year. If the White Sox want to compete in 2016 and have Avi in RF, they need to be much stronger everywhere else on the diamond, and that's a lot of talent they don't have.

[ChiSox59]

Puig in RF = the White Sox have a much better chance at competing in 2016.

 

Garcia in RF = not sure why you'd think the White Sox can be competitive with him out there.

 

You can give Avi more time in RF, fine, but build a roster with the expectation that you're not going to be that much better than this year. If the White Sox want to compete in 2016 and have Avi in RF, they need to be much stronger everywhere else on the diamond, and that's a lot of talent they don't have.

 

Obviously Puig would be a net + in RF over Avi right now. But you don't trade your 2nd best trading chip, and a guy who is locked up long-term well below market value for him.

 

By the way, you still think Melky is a 1 WAR player moving forward?

[BlackSox13]

If they're desperate, they should take Q and Danks for Puig.

With no guarantee of extending or signing Samardzija the Sox rotation going into 2016 would be Sale, Rodon who is still working on his command and control, Erik Johnson who has yet to show he can stay in the majors and produce and two open holes. So now the SOX have turned a strength into a weakness for one position player on a team that has many holes to fill. Plus, effectively devaluing Q by including Danks just to get Puig.

 

Again, no thanks. Pass.

 

If the Sox are to shop Q, the off season would be the time to do it where 29 other teams would certainly be ringing Hahn's phone to the point of giving Hahn a migraine. The only pitching the Sox should consider selling at this point is Samardzija and Robertson, that's it.

 

The Sox are likely not contenders so they really are not desperate since there's plenty of time to makes trades between now and ST 2016. Puig is not going to turn the Sox into contenders this year.

Edited July 17, 2015 by BlackSox13

[shysocks]

With no guarantee of extending or signing Samardzija the Sox rotation going into 2016 would be Sale, Rodon who is still working on his command and control, Erik Johnson who has yet to show he can stay in the majors and produce and two open holes. So now the SOX have turned a strength into a weakness for one position player on a team that has many holes to fill. Plus, effectively devaluing Q by including Danks just to get Puig.

 

Again, no thanks. Pass.

 

If the Sox are to shop Q, the off season would be the time to do it where 29 other teams would certainly be ringing Hahn's phone to the point of giving Hahn a migraine. The only pitching the Sox should consider selling at this point is Samardzija and Robertson, that's it.

 

The Sox are likely not contenders so they really are not desperate since there's plenty of time to makes trades between now and ST 2016. Puig is not going to turn the Sox into contenders this year.

Come on man, if you can get Puig for Q and Danks you take it and run.

[Balta1701]

Obviously Puig would be a net + in RF over Avi right now. But you don't trade your 2nd best trading chip, and a guy who is locked up long-term well below market value for him.

 

By the way, you still think Melky is a 1 WAR player moving forward?

His month-long hot streak has taken him from -1.0 to -0.7 fWAR.

[BlackSox13]

Come on man, if you can get Puig for Q and Danks you take it and run.

The Sox need hitters throughout the organization so taking one of your top three assets and combining it with your worst asset to get one hitter is a good idea? Meanwhile the Sox as an organization are still devoid of hitters so what do the Sox do to get more hitters? Trade Sale?

 

Come on Sox fans, think this through.