Chisoxfn Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:03 PM) i hate to ruin anybodies parade, but the sox doesn't need help in the outfield. so why add to that and let the other holes go untouched. Sox OF WAR, I believe, is the worst in all of baseball. I don't know any scenario where anyone would say that all around we have anything even close to an average outfield. Adding Puig is a mega upgrade. Edit: Sorry, late to the party but I see Balta has already covered this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) That blows my mind. Welcome to 2015 and the post PED era (also consistent with the vast majority of baseball history). Catchers that can hit are an extremely rare breed. The toll taken from catching games (as well as time spent on pitch calling / opposing stats / etc) juts makes it so difficult to be able to hit for much. Its why an upgrade at C is nice, but compared to what we have going on in the outfield and at 3B, it pales in comparison to overall importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) If you can get a top of the league player at C as the key piece in a deal I wouldn't complain at all, all I'd ask in response is why that's preferable to getting a top of the league talent in one of the corner OF spots. If you could replace Avi with a top of the league corner OF it's a bigger upgrade than replacing Flowers with one and both Flowers and Avi have the problem of moving forward in their arb years the next couple seasons. Replacing Avi with one of the best corner outfielders in baseball (and someone under team control through 2020) is a bigger upgrade than getting a top catching prospect, imo. The catching prospect has just as much risk of busting and the potential upside probably isn't near as close when compared to the significant upgrade you gain in the OF. I guess the problem is, people don't realize how significant defense is in this era, and just how bad our current outfield defense is (let alone looking at the offensive production). With as crappy of defense as our corner outfielders play, they'd have to hit like Babe Ruth to rank near the top in OF production (and I don't see that magically happening). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) Welcome to 2015 and the post PED era (also consistent with the vast majority of baseball history). Catchers that can hit are an extremely rare breed. The toll taken from catching games (as well as time spent on pitch calling / opposing stats / etc) juts makes it so difficult to be able to hit for much. Its why an upgrade at C is nice, but compared to what we have going on in the outfield and at 3B, it pales in comparison to overall importance. Such a great point. Can we get this on a billboard along the Kennedy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySox Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Well I guess the best question to ask is: Which player gives us the best chance to win in 2016 and beyond? Quintana pitching every 5th day, or Puig as your everyday RF. You have to consider the the young arms the White Sox have to replace Q and the offense that this team so desperately needs. Edited July 17, 2015 by RaySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Considering how much his teammates hate him, the last thing the Sox need is to give up a lot of resources for a player they're forced to trade in a year or two because he's a terrible teammate. There are better fits out there than Puig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) Considering how much his teammates hate him, the last thing the Sox need is to give up a lot of resources for a player they're forced to trade in a year or two because he's a terrible teammate. There are better fits out there than Puig. I agree with this. But he is the ideal type of player to take a flyer on if you can get him for less than Quintana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Yeah, I do Shark+ for Puig due to his character issues, not Q+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) To field a team to challenge other teams requires star talent at at least one position. We have pitchers, but only one DH who is particularly good. ok i am back for a little while. to compete and challenge other teams. maybe it is me that is not fully understanding what you meant. but the sox have at least 2 players who are star, well make that 1 player in Jose A. now i am not including the pitchers. now in this discussion, we are, to the best of my thought process, discussing puig and Q. no other players. so i can see trading a valuable asset in Q for puig. but that will limit the possibility of fixing the team. getting puig would be great for the fans, the press and ticket sales. but the baggage he carries..... nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Just to note again, Catcher is actually the position where the Sox have their 2nd highest fWAR. Tyler Flowers has more fWAR than any of our position player regulars other than Abreu. Maybe you think someone will improve next year at one of those positions, fine, but I certainly wouldn't say "we must find a catcher" or "finding a new catcher is more important than 3b, SS, OF, or 2b". catchers would be my ideal rtn but sale went to bat for flowers..... if not, i like a pkg that might be made from the yanks and sanchez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Trade our pitching surplus of prospects for hitting prospects yes i agree, but that is not this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:27 PM) Yes, I'm a soothsayer. Or, I assume most prospects will never succeed in the big leagues. haha no one needs to be a soothsayer to predict an unknown when the factors in the equation is known. what is known is a vast majority of baseball prospects fails. the unknown is who will not., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) How does that fill any of current needs at the MLB level? Feliz is the closest to MLB ready and he's probably a bullpen piece. Phillips is an outfielder..... Davis is in A+, we have a guy by the name of Trey Michalczewski who is producing at a similar clip than him and 2 years younger. Nottingham is 20 years old and is 3 years away.... Give me the proven stud in Puig.... you are now moving the first down markers to the org question. the goal is to acquire as much as you can assume players who will make the majors. in addition to add to a depleted minor league systems whose only strength is pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Trade our pitching surplus of prospects for hitting prospects so you are saying the same thing i am in my trade idea. which was done on a fly. same reasoning there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) I am aware. I think that has more to do with everyone else playing well under their career norms that Tyler Flowers and Geo Soto being good at baseball. Either would be a fine back-up. Problem is, there are very few good catchers in baseball right now, but I'd certainly like one of the top 10 catching prospects in the game and give him a chance next year than rely on either one of those two for more than back-up duty in 2016. Unlike you, I think we're fine in the OF for now, and we have several internal options at 2B and SS. 3B and C would be my priorities, and SS next. the unknown is anderson...... man i can't wait for him to make the jump, but until then, he is a viable option at ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:46 PM) Sox OF WAR, I believe, is the worst in all of baseball. I don't know any scenario where anyone would say that all around we have anything even close to an average outfield. Adding Puig is a mega upgrade. Edit: Sorry, late to the party but I see Balta has already covered this. i don't know if i answered this, but the sox needs more help in other positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ok i am caught up.... damn the sox lost the first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 05:06 PM) so you are saying the same thing i am in my trade idea. which was done on a fly. same reasoning there. The difference is your saying trade Q, who is a 3-5 WAR proven player for prospects which are unknowns. I'm saying trade our higher end pitching unknowns to the other teams for their high end hitting unknowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 04:15 PM) ok i am caught up.... damn the sox lost the first game. Shock you? This lineup sucks. I'm just ready for the deadline to come and pass and see where we stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Everyone knows that I LOVE the idea of acquiring Corey Seager. I really like Austin Barnes as well. If I'm Rick Hahn, I don't go anywhere near Puig and focus on bringing back some of LA's top prospects in return for ANY deal involving Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 06:09 PM) Everyone knows that I LOVE the idea of acquiring Corey Seager. I really like Austin Barnes as well. If I'm Rick Hahn, I don't go anywhere near Puig and focus on bringing back some of LA's top prospects in return for ANY deal involving Q. Unless you're trading Sale, you ain't getting Corey Seager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You aren't getting any elite hitting prospects unless you trade Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 yeah lets trade pitching prospects for hitting prospects, when we know the sox can't actually groom hitters in this farm system smart idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:09 PM) You aren't getting any elite hitting prospects unless you trade Chris Sale. I think you can get a tremendous package in return for Quintana. The Seager idea may be a reach, but just about every team in baseball would love Q on their team with his contract. I'm not sure what defines "elite" but Quintana should get you a haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:09 PM) You aren't getting any elite hitting prospects unless you trade Chris Sale. You could get some for Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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