GreenSox Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Pirates just called up Brent Morel to replace their injured SS in some fashion. I think we have a team for which Beckham would be an upgrade (not to mention Alexei). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It's too it has to end this way, because Alexi has had a pretty good career with Sox, but if he is still here next year, there will be more complaining about him, because he will probably be worse, not better in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 So Alexei leads all AL SS in assists. Is that an indication that he plays more than most SS or is it because the fuss about his fielding is slightly overblown ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) It's too it has to end this way, because Alexi has had a pretty good career with Sox, but if he is still here next year, there will be more complaining about him, because he will probably be worse, not better in 2016. I don't think it's possible he could be worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) So Alexei leads all AL SS in assists. Is that an indication that he plays more than most SS or is it because the fuss about his fielding is slightly overblown ? It's not just the fielding although many of his errors come on really simple plays...to me it's his mental mistakes, his tendency to let his mind drift on the field as well as his inability to work a count usually swinging at the first pitch and generally grounding out to short in key situations with runners in scoring position. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Let's imagine we had the Pods/Iguchi line-up for a moment... Which players are most capable of adjusting their offensive approach and advancing runners, hitting the ball to the right side...being situationally-aware, two strike hitting, etc. Alexei's not THAT player. He's a lot closer to Viciedo and Juan Uribe, minus the sac fly swing. Actually, we might be better off with Uribe as a place holder, come to think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) How can someone with that bad of numbers be considered a option to return for a year? A better stop gap can be found. Well, a cheaper one anyway, and that's enough of a reason for me. A bat or two will still need to be bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 04:32 PM) It's not just the fielding although many of his errors come on really simple plays...to me it's his mental mistakes, his tendency to let his mind drift on the field as well as his inability to work a count usually swinging at the first pitch and generally grounding out to short in key situations with runners in scoring position. Mark Well I know his hitting has been pitiful but you hear a lot in the game threads about Alexei being a step slow . All those assists tell me differently As far as mental errors I really think that's something that is extremely hard to quantify. No one is in his head and plenty of SS make errors on routine plays or what appears to be routine plays. Like Hawk likes to say if you get to more balls than all other SS the chances of making an error are higher because you're getting to more difficult plays. I can't defend his hitting at all except to say working the count is also one of those things there is too much emphasis on. Some pretty good hitters love to sit on that 1st pitch fastball because its the most predictable pitch and likely to be the best pitch you see in a particular sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 To me, there is no question you buy out the option on Alexei. I'm on the Saladino to SS bandwagon. And I would love Uribe back for 3B. He is gonna be able to play forever. And he would bring some more fun back to the team. Maybe something we miss with Moises Sierra not here this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) Well I know his hitting has been pitiful but you hear a lot in the game threads about Alexei being a step slow . All those assists tell me differently As far as mental errors I really think that's something that is extremely hard to quantify. No one is in his head and plenty of SS make errors on routine plays or what appears to be routine plays. Like Hawk likes to say if you get to more balls than all other SS the chances of making an error are higher because you're getting to more difficult plays. I can't defend his hitting at all except to say working the count is also one of those things there is too much emphasis on. Some pretty good hitters love to sit on that 1st pitch fastball because its the most predictable pitch and likely to be the best pitch you see in a particular sequence. That's fine...but hit it where it's pitched, like Abreu does. Be willing to take a hit to the oppoite field. How many times has he rolled his wrist and pulled the ball on the infield to the lh side or hit into a DP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Why isn't Leury Garcia in the mix to temporarily fill the hole at SS, if Alexei is not brought back? He's a strong defender, with a canon for an arm, and is having a pretty good year at AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:20 PM) Why isn't Leury Garcia in the mix to temporarily fill the hole at SS, if Alexei is not brought back? He's a strong defender, with a canon for an arm, and is having a pretty good year at AAA. Would you really want to give him a chance over Saladino? IMO, Tyler is the better player both offensively & defensively and it wouldn't even be a question who I give the everyday at-bats at SS to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) Why isn't Leury Garcia in the mix to temporarily fill the hole at SS, if Alexei is not brought back? He's a strong defender, with a canon for an arm, and is having a pretty good year at AAA. L. Garcia in my opinion is another one of those "Four A" players (and the Sox have a bunch of them). Impressive stats in the minor leagues but when they get their chance at the major league level they can't do a thing. Garcia had a chance last year and didn't show much. Sox need to do better than him. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:29 PM) Would you really want to give him a chance over Saladino? IMO, Tyler is the better player both offensively & defensively and it wouldn't even be a question who I give the everyday at-bats at SS to. If it is true that Saladino is a better defensive SS, I would absolutely prefer Tyler. In fact, I even like Saladino better if he is only as good as Garcia. It was my understanding that Leury was clearly the better defensive SS. If anyone can make a comparison of the two players' respective defensive skills, that would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:36 PM) If it is true that Saladino is a better defensive SS, I would absolutely prefer Tyler. In fact, I even like Saladino better if he is only as good as Garcia. It was my understanding that Leury was clearly the better defensive SS. If anyone can make a comparison of the two players' respective defensive skills, that would be helpful. It's arguable. Neither player is Rondon. Garcia has the better arm and slightly more range. Saladino's serviceable, but that doesn't get you in playoff contention. The best guy we've produced is Eduardo Escobar, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:36 PM) If it is true that Saladino is a better defensive SS, I would absolutely prefer Tyler. In fact, I even like Saladino better if he is only as good as Garcia. It was my understanding that Leury was clearly the better defensive SS. If anyone can make a comparison of the two players' respective defensive skills, that would be helpful. Take it for what it's worth, but Hahn said last year that outside of Alexei and Rondon, Saladino was the best defensive SS in the organization. Which implies he's better than Semien (A's starting shortstop), Carlos Sanchez, Leury, and Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:51 PM) It's arguable. Neither player is Rondon. Garcia has the better arm and slightly more range. Saladino's serviceable, but that doesn't get you in playoff contention. The best guy we've produced is Eduardo Escobar, fwiw. Escobar's UZR/150 -15.1 falls into the "awful" range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:58 PM) Take it for what it's worth, but Hahn said last year that outside of Alexei and Rondon, Saladino was the best defensive SS in the organization. Which implies he's better than Semien (A's starting shortstop), Carlos Sanchez, Leury, and Beckham. And SS looks like it would fit perfectly with his bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:10 PM) Escobar's UZR/150 -15.1 falls into the "awful" range. So there you go...if the best of the worst is awful, whose responsibility is that? As has been noted 1,000+ times with Semien, if we can't develop hitters or fielders, what can we do well, as you don't think Cooper has done a good job with the pitching, either? Edited July 21, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 04:25 AM) So there you go...if the best of the worst is awful, whose responsibility is that? As has been noted 1,000+ times with Semien, if we can't develop hitters or fielders, what can we do well, as you don't think Cooper has done a good job with the pitching, either? No, the point is Escobar wasn't the best. Players become infinitely better in your mind the secomd they are traded. You were making excuses for Semien and his 28 errors saying the A's see potential and brought in a coach to help him. They brought in a coach because he is awful, and the bat has come back to earth as well. Escobar is a utility guy. Trading him made plenty of sense. It didn't work out, but he will hever be a difference maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 04:56 AM) No, the point is Escobar wasn't the best. Players become infinitely better in your mind the secomd they are traded. You were making excuses for Semien and his 28 errors saying the A's see potential and brought in a coach to help him. They brought in a coach because he is awful, and the bat has come back to earth as well. Escobar is a utility guy. Trading him made plenty of sense. It didn't work out, but he will hever be a difference maker. Considering your benchline/standard for best position player produced by the White Sox is Gordon Beckham over the last decade...infinite's not a bad choice of words when Semien still comes out well ahead of Alexei production-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) Considering your benchline/standard for best position player produced by the White Sox is Gordon Beckham over the last decade...infinite's not a bad choice of words when Semien still comes out well ahead of Alexei production-wise. Gordon Beckham supposedly needs to be released. His WAR -0.1. Eduardo Escobar is the best SS the Sox have produced recently according to you, his WAR -0.5. Facts suck when hyperbole is available. Semien's 0.6 WAR and falling and 28 errors at SS doesn't exactly warrant long term answer at that position. Nor does it suggest he would make a difference on the 2015 White Sox. Edited July 21, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 All these people jumping on the Saladino bandwagon scare me. Also all the people jumping off the Alexei bandwagon scare me. The Sox said they have a 3 year window. They aren't trading Alexei, and especially at a low point. Tell me this: Who is more likely to hit .260, have 30 doubles, 20SB, and 65 RBI's while playing solid D? And who is more likely to hit .240, have 3HR, 10 Doubles, 20SB and 40RBIS? Look at their career stats guys! Just because Saladino put down some successful bunts in his first 10 games doesn't mean he's going to hit .300 and be a savior!! He's just a bright spot on a team that has hit historically bad!! Saladino is 26 years old. In his time in the MINORS his career averages are .261 avg, 9HR, 20 doubles, 22SB Ramirez will be 35 years old. In his MAJOR league career his averages are .273 avg, 12 or so HR, 30 Doubles, 20SB *** these numbers are rounded and not exact ... half seasons into account, etc. This board is full of too many Hawks. Super excited when we win a few or a person like Saladino bats .300 over 10 games, and super depressed and fire sale when bad things happen. Alexei's trade value is too low to sell. His $10mm contract is not crazy for his production. He is not a hole on this team. A stop gap signed at $6mm does not give us a better opportunity to win next year. Saladino does not give us a better chance to win next year. Focus on 3B, C, and finding a better option in RF/moving Garcia to DH SHEESH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:33 PM) L. Garcia in my opinion is another one of those "Four A" players (and the Sox have a bunch of them). Impressive stats in the minor leagues but when they get their chance at the major league level they can't do a thing. Garcia had a chance last year and didn't show much. Sox need to do better than him. Mark Lip, no disrespect meant, but you finally have enough of the other board? I remember you well from my days over there before I found Soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 The Sox have been loading up with old guys or the last 6+ years....where has that gotten them? Using career stats to project future production of a 35 year old is madness. Selling now (low) may not be the right idea; on the other hand, neither is bringing him back for $10 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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