Potential Catchers Available

[Balta1701]

I think you're missing my point, though -- there's a chance he'll be good. There's (virtually) no chance Flowers will be good. So if you can only replace one, you're better off with a decent player and a bad guy with upside than you are with a decent player and a bad guy with no upside.

I agree with you if we're thinking long term and we're not selling out to win next season.

 

Think of it this way, let's say Flowers is a ~0.5 fWAR guy.

 

Garcia could be either a -1 fWAR or a 1 fWAR guy if he improves a lot.

 

Hypothetically we could upgrade to one of the top 10 catchers in the league and get a 2 fWAR guy or one of the top 15 OF in the league and get a 2 fWAR guy.

 

If you upgrade over Flowers to a top 10 catcher, you're upgrading by 1.5 fWAR compared to this year. If you upgrade over Garcia, you're getting an upgrade of 3 fWAR over this season. Garcia himself has to massively improve next year to offset the difference in upgrades and I'm not going to bet my roster on that.

 

I'm totally ok with upgrading over Flowers and playing Garcia next year, but that's 2017 thinking. I'm totally ok with 2017 thinking but we need to do that with the rest of our roster too and understand that's what we're doing.

[Special K]

He is a "replacement level player". He's been just about as valuable at his position this year as Adam Eaton.

 

If we had a strong team around him, that'd be ok. A team can live with 1-2 replacement level players in their lineup if they're strong elsewhere.

 

OTOH, we're weak everywhere. Our OF is easily the worst in baseball. 3b, 2b, SS all are terrible. Flowers being a replacement level player is therefore a problem, but it's not even as big of a problem as say, Avi Garcia is.

 

If we could find a major upgrade at catcher, fine go ahead. But it's not our biggest issue. If we upgraded catcher solidly and brought the IF up to tolerable with Micah, Saladino, Sanchez, and maybe a FA signing, we'd still have major issues in the OF and elsewhere in the lineup.

 

Edit:

Other way to look at it? The White Sox are 16th in MLB in fWAR out of the Catcher's spot. The White Sox are 17th in MLB in fWAR out of the 1b spot. Soto has helped that, but that should scale where the catcher's spot sits right now.

 

Couldn't agree with this any more. Flowers is not enjoyable to watch, but he is somewhat average at his position, and handles the pitchers quite well. Most importantly, Flowers is the LEAST of our problems. Flowers is decent enough to be in a lineup surrounded by other good players. It's just that his production is highlighted when you have guys like Beckham, Sanchez, Ramirez, and other under performers (Cabrera, LaRoche, Garcia). I am pessimistic that our internal options will be sufficient to produce MLB acceptable players at 3b, SS and 2B. Those positions we should be looking to upgrade. I am of the thought that we should be able to pick up a power hitting stick in FA that could fill a corner outfield spot or DH spot, as long as it is not a former National named Adam that hits lefty.

[Chisoxfn]

I suggested Puig+Barnes for Q+a piece in the other thread. You robbed my idea.

Oh contraire...I added Guerrero. I do think you had a great idea though. I also presume the Dodgers would be insane to do it, but maybe they really are going to sell Puig low.

[Chicago White Sox]

Not that I think WAR is an effective way to value catchers by any means, but for discussion purposes here is where our two catchers rank in baseball (100 PA qualification):

 

Soto: 0.9 WAR (18th)

Flowers: 0.0 WAR (39th)

 

I have no idea where this idea that Flowers is even passable comes from. The reason our overall catcher production has been tolerable is because of our 32 year old backup Soto. And let's not ignore that WAR is a volume metric, meaning that Flowers has provided less production than many guys with far less playing time. Under no circumstance should Flowers be considered an option next year in a primary role.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

One catcher I'd call about is Kevin Plawecki. Given the Mets already have d'Arnaud, I could see them willing to part with him in the right deal. Not sure what they need other than offense, which obviously isn't our strong suit. Having said that, I'd at least float the idea of Avi as an inexpensive OF upgrade. And assuming they pass on that, I'd offer a decent prospect or two that can help them get the bat they desperately need or at least replace the prospects they give up in said deal.

[2nd_city_saint787]

From Fangraphs....

 

8. Austin Barnes, C Video: Barnes is a unique prospect that had industry value and, when the Dodgers acquired him in the Dee Gordon trade, it had many executives mad that Friedman beat them to the versatile Barnes. He’s a bit of a late-bloomer as a 5’9/185 catcher that signed for $95,000 out of Arizona State in 2011. Barnes emerged in the upper levels as an advanced bat with feel for the strike zone, but below average power that’s most unique because he can catch at a big league level and also is a 45 runner that plays second base and third base to keep fresh and keep his bat in the lineup.

 

He’s the third catcher for the Dodgers right now, starting in Triple-A, and will continue to play in the infield. That said, he’s apparently an excellent framer, with one exec telling me he’s top 25-30 in the minor leagues, so the plan is to develop him as a potential everyday catcher but know that he can also be a utility guy if needed

 

Really want this kid somehow.... His minor league numbers look fantastic. Looks to me he's of the Jason Kendall/Russell Martin/////John Jason with D type mold.

 

I think getting a catcher who could potentially hit 2nd if is on base tendencies continue up into the big leagues would be huge.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I'd much rather surround Tyler with a good offense.

I'd much rather have a catcher that can catch.

[LDF]

The Dodgers are certainly a team that the Sox could match up with. Their FO has been waiting for the inevitable roster crunch that has been put off for a while because of injuries. I doubt the Dodgers are going to move a bunch of their surplus given the way they operate, but they may move a piece or to. Especially when you consider than many of these players in the roster crunch were acquired/extended during the last regime.

 

Personally, I doubt they trade Barnes but he'd be a nice get if you could finagle him in a Shark trade. Not sure the Sox are trying to trade for an OF but LA has Crawford/Ethier/Pederson/Puig/Guerrero/Heisey/Enrique Hernandez/Van Slyke with Scott Schebler, last offseason's stat-line prospect evaluator's favorite, doing okay in AAA. You would think Pederson and Crawford are the only locks to stay in that glut.

 

On Guerrero, he has a clause on his contract that allows him to opt out of his contract at the end of they year in the case that he were traded. He also can't be sent down to the minors without his own permission. Oh, and he has not played 3B in almost two months and is a mess in the OF. So you have a guy who is inexperienced in the OF, who cannot play 3B, cannot get sent down to learn the OF and can opt out of his contract if traded. Guerrero is not a useless player, but he has no trade value because of the ridiculous contract the Dodgers last FO put together.

 

i like all that you posted... and i now keeping adding

 

anderson getting hurt and now dodgers may NEED to make a strong move .....

[GreenSox]

Personally, I doubt they trade Barnes but he'd be a nice get if you could finagle him in a Shark trade. Not sure the Sox are trying to trade for an OF but LA has Crawford/Ethier/Pederson/Puig/Guerrero/Heisey/Enrique Hernandez/Van Slyke with Scott Schebler, last offseason's stat-line prospect evaluator's favorite, doing okay in AAA. You would think Pederson and Crawford are the only locks to stay in that glut.

Sox wouldn't (shouldn't) want Eithier, Guerrero, Heisey.

That leaves Hernandez (not an everyday player) Van Slyke or Schebler.

Schebler is someone they should have tried to trade for last winter, instead of signing the vets. I'd still take him (presuming the scouts think he can hit major league pitching; those western PCL numbers tend to inflate).

[BigFinn]

One catcher I'd call about is Kevin Plawecki. Given the Mets already have d'Arnaud, I could see them willing to part with him in the right deal. Not sure what they need other than offense, which obviously isn't our strong suit. Having said that, I'd at least float the idea of Avi as an inexpensive OF upgrade. And assuming they pass on that, I'd offer a decent prospect or two that can help them get the bat they desperately need or at least replace the prospects they give up in said deal.

Good call on Plawecki. The Mets have been looking for a shortstop for a while. And if they are going to make a playoff push, Alexei and a reliever like Petricka could yield us Plawecki and a lottery pick from their system. We might have to include cash . . . $#@#$#&&^*$#!!!*@@)($ing Bernie Madoff.

[BigFinn]

Trying to find catching prospects, here's an article on Aramis Garcia, who may be 3 years away, but sounds promising.

 

He's blocked behind Buster Posey and Andrew Susac. Garcia is listed #6 on Baseball America's 7/17 issue of Prospect Hot Sheet.

 

I don't know if Rick Hahn and KW are looking for ballplayers for the 2016 White Sox 25-man roster or if they want to add depth to the organization.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'd much rather have a catcher that can catch.

I would too. But there's so few of them we could make due with Tyler if we could get some guys that can hit.

[BigFinn]

In Statcorner, Tyler Flowers is now the #5 catcher with respect to pitch framing; Gio Soto is #20 (out of about 80). For those interested, the top 10 are:

 

Francisco Cervelli PIT

Chris Iannetta LAA

Yasmani Grandel LAD

Buster Posey SFG

Tyler Flowers SOX

Jason Castro HOU

Yadier Molina STL

Mike Zunino SEA

Kevin Plawecki NYM

David Ross CHC

 

Flowers has turned himself into a decent defensive backstop. If the Sox had better offense from the rest of the lineup, they could stand Flowers as catcher.

 

That said, if the Sox could find themselves a solid 2-way catching prospect that they could groom for starting in 2017, I wouldn't complain.