Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) Even when we were winning, I still said the defense and offense sucked too much and it was time to put the focus to next year (while still potentially buying). If things worked out and you end up winning, great, but I'm not not making moves when your playoff odds are below 5% and your team has sucked defensively for 2 full seasons (and now most of a 3rd season). I'll add this to my mental list of systematic problems with this front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) Even when we were winning, I still said the defense and offense sucked too much and it was time to put the focus to next year (while still potentially buying). If things worked out and you end up winning, great, but I'm not not making moves when your playoff odds are below 5% and your team has sucked defensively for 2 full seasons (and now most of a 3rd season). I think we all saw that, ownership and management just didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Oh hey look a young catcher being traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 oak really won in this trade and the sox are really the losers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Rick Hahn: The World is watching. Wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 10:27 AM) I'll add this to my mental list of systematic problems with this front office. You and I agree. Question is who could have been so foolish to buy into this thing at that point. It seems like this club has a history of overplaying their cards and falling too "in love" with their paper rosters. To your point, something you talk about pretty consistently (and I agree with), the Sox have historically (really since KW took over) underachieved (actual production vs. paper expectations). Some of that could be luck but at some point, it begs the question of why are we consistently wrong (it has happened under 2 different managers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 So Kazmir brought essentially nothing back. Everyone temper your expectations for Samardzija. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:35 PM) So Kazmir brought essentially nothing back. Everyone temper your expectations for Samardzija. Catcher around #10 in the Astros system is still better than a comp pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Tyler Flowers was a breakout catching prospect once. Didn't KW watch him hit a bunch of homers in the AZ Fall League? The kid would be nice to have, but still there are very few catchers anymore with really nice offensive games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:35 PM) So Kazmir brought essentially nothing back. Everyone temper your expectations for Samardzija. That's certainly not nothing. Jacob Nottingham is a pretty good prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) Tyler Flowers was a breakout catching prospect once. Didn't KW watch him hit a bunch of homers in the AZ Fall League? The kid would be nice to have, but still there are very few catchers anymore with really nice offensive games. I'm not sure what this post actually means? Nottingham will bust because Flowers did? Nottingham is a poor prospect because he's a catcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:35 PM) So Kazmir brought essentially nothing back. Everyone temper your expectations for Samardzija. The fact he is still here should have done that anyway. If there was a big return to be had, he would have been gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 05:37 PM) Tyler Flowers was a breakout catching prospect once. Didn't KW watch him hit a bunch of homers in the AZ Fall League? The kid would be nice to have, but still there are very few catchers anymore with really nice offensive games. i agree on his potential as a catcher esp his hitting. dang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) I'm not sure what this post actually means? Nottingham will bust because Flowers did? Nottingham is a poor prospect because he's a catcher? No, it means minor league catchers are very difficult to project, because there is a lot going on with them. Flowers was .275/.391/.876 his minor league career at was a top 75 prospect. He was supposed to be all offense, no defense. Now he's the opposite, and the defense, at least to me, seems to be declining. That would project a lot better. An A ball catcher, even if he is having a "break out" season, is still just a lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) I'm not sure what this post actually means? Nottingham will bust because Flowers did? Nottingham is a poor prospect because he's a catcher? Dick Allen Translation you can use forever: X won't work because y marginally-related event in past happened and z (whom was not you) had a differing opinion about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) Catcher around #10 in the Astros system is still better than a comp pick. QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) That's certainly not nothing. Jacob Nottingham is a pretty good prospect. Yeah, I exaggerated a bit. But still -- we shouldn't be expecting a household name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 totally unrelated.... i wonder if the sox were even involve in any of that discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) totally unrelated.... i wonder if the sox were even involve in any of that discussion. We can wait a year or two for the Cards to leak the discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) The fact he is still here should have done that anyway. If there was a big return to be had, he would have been gone. Exactly. I don't know how anyone can conclude they waited too long and the seller's market disappeared. What trade was made that indicated there was a seller's market to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:45 PM) No, it means minor league catchers are very difficult to project, because there is a lot going on with them. Flowers was .275/.391/.876 his minor league career at was a top 75 prospect. He was supposed to be all offense, no defense. Now he's the opposite, and the defense, at least to me, seems to be declining. That would project a lot better. An A ball catcher, even if he is having a "break out" season, is still just a lottery ticket. Worth highlighting that Flowers, while in the minors, had several other things going on with him, including a steroid suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I was going to say I'm pretty sure Flowers was suspended for PEDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 06:47 PM) We can wait a year or two for the Cards to leak the discussions. many thanks.... i really needed that.... i was feeling some anger coming on b/c of this trade. really fuvvck funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 9m9 minutes ago Sources: Toronto in serious pursuit of starting pitcher. Suppose that's obvious at this point, but team pushing really hard to acquire one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 55s55 seconds ago The #Astros also had Jeff Samardzija on their radar, but couldn't afford to wait for #WhiteSox to decide on a course of action. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick Well there's some good news(major sarcasm) Edited July 23, 2015 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:48 PM) Worth highlighting that Flowers, while in the minors, had several other things going on with him, including a steroid suspension. Yeah, in A ball. Top 10 MLB catching prospects Jan 2008 Wieters Clement Towles Soto Conger Bryan Anderson Montero Mesoraco Cervelli Teagarden Not a lot of potential HOFers there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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