Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:12 PM) The Astros are without a doubt the most sabermetrical team in baseball. So if you're a saber guy, and knowing how thin catching is league-wide, and they trade him for a rental, wouldn't it make you think they aren't very high on him? You gotta give up players to get players. I dont see why that isnt getting through to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 06:12 PM) He's replying to the phrase "The White Sox haven't decided on a course of action" there. for me, as trades and prospects.... i really like the catcher for the last month.... imo of the 3 teams i was looking at, he was #2 in the catcher dept. but then again, what the fvvck to i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:12 PM) and that is a really nice stopgap to help an org in rebuilding. I could be confused but, how are these prospects stop gaps? Unless you're saying Kazmir is a stop gap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Dan Hayes @CSNHayes 20m20 minutes ago On value of sandwich pick -- observer thinks 31-40 in 2016 may not yield an impact player but could produce an evday MLBer. Better than '15. Definitely interesting to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Maybe Hahn and company wanted prospects that are closer to being MLB ready to fit the window they believe they have? The catcher from the Astros is still a few years away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Mike Ferrin @MikeFerrinSXM 5m5 minutes ago If Nottingham & Mengden reach their ceiling: Astros gave up everyday C & 4/5 starter for 2 mos. of Mid-rotation starter. Seller’s market. The only problem is how many players actually reach the ceilings that were given to them in A ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) Maybe Hahn and company wanted prospects that are closer to being MLB ready to fit the window they believe they have? The catcher from the Astros is still a few years away. I'm almost certain that is the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) I could be confused but, how are these prospects stop gaps? Unless you're saying Kazmir is a stop gap? you are correct, for me i was talking about the rtn for oak. some may not see them as class A high elite prospects...... but they are everyday players. name me a team that has nothing buy elite players at all positions.... Edited July 23, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) The only problem is how many players actually reach the ceilings that were given to them in A ball? You're exactly right. No rebuttal here, just stating a tweet that if they do reach their ceilings. I think Nottingham can, less skeptical about the pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) This thread is what's embarrassing. Scott Kazmir was traded to Houston. Scott Kazmir also plays for a Billy Beane ran team. Maybe Houston could get Kazmir cheaper than any other pitcher. Oakland operates in a strange way. The lack of backbone in this thread is laughable. Disagree, Kazmir may certainly have come cheaper than Smarj. But houston was clearly scouting Samardjiza hard and viewed him as a viable alternative to giving up bigger spects for Cueto and many spects for hamels. Now there are the Jays and the Royals, and we likely won't trade to Royals. So we have the Jays, who are more interested in Cueto. By all accounts, they moved from Sox because Sox apparently don't believe they are sellers yet. That's an amazing feat to continue to surprise me at our ineptitude this late into this crap season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) I'm almost certain that is the reason. I'll third this. The Sox would surely have targeted different kinds of returns than an A-ball catcher. However, it is a little discouraging that the Sox may not have engaged the Astros seriously because they weren't sure they were sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) I'm almost certain that is the reason. I agree with this. I have a feeling Sox wanted Santana. QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) you are correct, for me i was talking about the rtn for oak. some may not see them as class A high elite prospects...... but they are everyday players. name me a team that has nothing buy elite players at all positions.... Nottingham can become elite because he plays a position that is so hard to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) This thread is what's embarrassing. Scott Kazmir was traded to Houston. Scott Kazmir also plays for a Billy Beane ran team. Maybe Houston could get Kazmir cheaper than any other pitcher. Oakland operates in a strange way. The lack of backbone in this thread is laughable. Don't let your contacts cloud your vision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Also remember that this was an intra-division trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:19 PM) I'll third this. The Sox would surely have targeted different kinds of returns than an A-ball catcher. However, it is a little discouraging that the Sox may not have engaged the Astros seriously because they weren't sure they were sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) Disagree, Kazmir may certainly have come cheaper than Smarj. But houston was clearly scouting Samardjiza hard and viewed him as a viable alternative to giving up bigger spects for Cueto and many spects for hamels. Now there are the Jays and the Royals, and we likely won't trade to Royals. So we have the Jays, who are more interested in Cueto. By all accounts, they moved from Sox because Sox apparently don't believe they are sellers yet. That's an amazing feat to continue to surprise me at our ineptitude this late into this crap season. good reasoning.... let me say this, if cueto goes next, then there is shark and hamels and price, for 3 possible teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) Disagree, Kazmir may certainly have come cheaper than Smarj. But houston was clearly scouting Samardjiza hard and viewed him as a viable alternative to giving up bigger spects for Cueto and many spects for hamels. Now there are the Jays and the Royals, and we likely won't trade to Royals. So we have the Jays, who are more interested in Cueto. By all accounts, they moved from Sox because Sox apparently don't believe they are sellers yet. That's an amazing feat to continue to surprise me at our ineptitude this late into this crap season. Although Kazmir has more of an injury history, he's outperforming Samardzija this year so far. He's paid a tiny bit more, would translate to about $1 million extra in payroll during the last 2 months for Kazmir over Samardzija, but you get a guy performing better who also happens to be a lefty which is always a nice bonus. Hard to believe Samardzija could gather a much bigger return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) You gotta give up players to get players. I dont see why that isnt getting through to you. How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? "Samardzija couldn't even draw a package this good" doesn't make me feel particularly happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) I agree with this. I have a feeling Sox wanted Santana. Nottingham can become elite because he plays a position that is so hard to play. very nice. and logical. will he do it..... who cares... at least they made a move to help. now it is up to the baseball gods . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) Maybe Hahn and company wanted prospects that are closer to being MLB ready to fit the window they believe they have? The catcher from the Astros is still a few years away. This makes absolute sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) Although Kazmir has more of an injury history, he's outperforming Samardzija this year so far. He's paid a tiny bit more, would translate to about $1 million extra in payroll during the last 2 months for Kazmir over Samardzija, but you get a guy performing better who also happens to be a lefty which is always a nice bonus. Hard to believe Samardzija could gather a much bigger return. As someone else mentioned, this was an inner division trade. If Shark goes, I think it'll be to Toronto or to an NL team where he has shown he has had much more success. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? I know that when I have created trade packages for Shark, Nottingham was a name I've had my eye on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) Dan Hayes @CSNHayes 20m20 minutes ago On value of sandwich pick -- observer thinks 31-40 in 2016 may not yield an impact player but could produce an evday MLBer. Better than '15. Definitely interesting to think about. This is a bad way of looking at it though. Guys fall in the draft all the time. The value in the comp pick is the flexibility that it allows you throughout the draft. Stop looking at the value of the particular player chosen with the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? Who honestly cares how many times he was mentioned? I think the obvious problem here is the lack of trust in Rick Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? Again, the frustration comes from the reports in regards to the White Sox organization being clueless, not that they missed out on these particular prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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