Another Movie Theatre Shooting

[Balta1701]

Said with zero evidence to back it up. As Alpha pointed out before, don't you think if that situation happened in the last 10 years, even once, that anti-gun nuts would be screaming about it from the mountaintops? I've literally never heard of that happening, where a would-be vigilante ending up killing or hurting someone. Never. I'm sure it's happened, but obviously not to a degree that we hear about it as a legitimate problem.

How about I quite simply turn your argument around and say "how many mass shootings have been stopped in progress by a "good guy with a gun" who wasn't a trained officer? Yet this whole thread keeps repeating that fantasy of how you'll be that person.

 

Maybe, just maybe, that fantasy isn't worth a few hundred mass shootings?

[StrangeSox]

I have to cite Jenks as being the winner of this argument. I appreciate the long responses from the others, but Jenks I feel has the right position on this.

 

the death blow

[Jenksismyhero]

How about I quite simply turn your argument around and say "how many mass shootings have been stopped in progress by a "good guy with a gun" who wasn't a trained officer? Yet this whole thread keeps repeating that fantasy of how you'll be that person.

 

Maybe, just maybe, that fantasy isn't worth a few hundred mass shootings?

 

1) Mass shootings or not, I can at least point to examples where guns have saved lives, which kills your presumption that guns always make things worse. You can't cite me ONE EXAMPLE of your premise that people will start shooting others accidentally.

 

2) The argument isn't so much that "hey i'll be the hero!" It's much more, "if i'm in that situation, at least I have SOMETHING to defend myself. I'm not at the complete mercy of a killer." I don't think anyone is under the delusion that they'll suddenly become James Bond in a fire fight.

 

3) A few hundred mass shootings? That number is going to dramatically increase now? Other than your fear and illogical assumptions, what is this based on? Weren't we supposed to have fire fights in the streets all the time btw? Has that happened yet? We've had CC in Illinois for over 2 years now. Where's that big uptick in murders?

Edited August 7, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

the death blow

 

Lol, I concede defeat!

[Balta1701]

1) Mass shootings or not, I can at least point to examples where guns have saved lives, which kills your presumption that guns always make things worse. You can't cite me ONE EXAMPLE of your premise that people will start shooting others accidentally.

 

2) The argument isn't so much that "hey i'll be the hero!" It's much more, "if i'm in that situation, at least I have SOMETHING to defend myself. I'm not at the complete mercy of a killer." I don't think anyone is under the delusion that they'll suddenly become James Bond in a fire fight.

 

3) A few hundred mass shootings? That number is going to dramatically increase now? Other than your fear and illogical assumptions, what is this based on? Weren't we supposed to have fire fights in the streets all the time btw? Has that happened yet? We've had CC in Illinois for over 2 years now. Where's that big uptick in murders?

3. There have been over 200 mass shootings in 2015 already.

 

2. The small chance of you having something to defend yourself against a guy with a gun versus the effectiveness of keeping that guy from having a gun in the first place? Sure, a mass shooting a day is a reasonable sacrifice for that, right?

 

1. Do you really think it's that hard for me to find examples of people who shot in what they think is self-defense and then killed someone by accident? In a single year there's about 15,000 people injured in accidental shootings and 600 or so killed. There are plenty of easily located examples of people shooting family members that they mistook for intruders, that's an easy one.

 

The real interesting one though is the "self defense" one that is the George Zimmerman case. Although the studies are out of date because we stopped funding them to appease the NRA because every study you do on gun violence makes gun ownership look like an idiotic decision, there are several studies from the 1990s/2000s that suggest most of the "self defense" gun usages are cases that escalate, like the one we discussed here a couple years ago where 2 guys got in an argument in a pizza parlor line and wound up pulling guns on each other.

[Jake]

Also worth noting that the most influential gun advocates dislike most forms of control over who can buy and carry and under what conditions. I have fairly little confidence that a person concealed carrying is competent at anything beyond not accidentally shooting themselves when they holster their weapon before going out in the morning. It's not exactly easy to just sit in a day-long class and walk away with a cool head under pressure and sure aim in a volatile situation.

[cabiness42]

3. There have been over 200 mass shootings in 2015 already.

 

2. The small chance of you having something to defend yourself against a guy with a gun versus the effectiveness of keeping that guy from having a gun in the first place? Sure, a mass shooting a day is a reasonable sacrifice for that, right?

 

1. Do you really think it's that hard for me to find examples of people who shot in what they think is self-defense and then killed someone by accident? In a single year there's about 15,000 people injured in accidental shootings and 600 or so killed. There are plenty of easily located examples of people shooting family members that they mistook for intruders, that's an easy one.

 

The real interesting one though is the "self defense" one that is the George Zimmerman case. Although the studies are out of date because we stopped funding them to appease the NRA because every study you do on gun violence makes gun ownership look like an idiotic decision, there are several studies from the 1990s/2000s that suggest most of the "self defense" gun usages are cases that escalate, like the one we discussed here a couple years ago where 2 guys got in an argument in a pizza parlor line and wound up pulling guns on each other.

 

Because gun laws will keep the bad guys from getting guns, just like laws keep them from getting drugs and stealing.

[Brian]

Because gun laws will keep the bad guys from getting guns, just like laws keep them from getting drugs and stealing.

So you're saying we should legalize drugs and theft?

 

Although I'm not against legalizing drugs.

[cabiness42]

So you're saying we should legalize drugs and theft?

 

Although I'm not against legalizing drugs.

 

Drugs and theft can't be legitimately used in self-defense, though, at least not in any situation I can come up with off the top of my head.

 

The bad guys are going to have guns regardless of the laws, but I will feel safer if the good guys are allowed to have guns.

[Brian]

The bad guys are going to have guns regardless of the laws, but I will feel safer if the good guys are allowed to have guns.

 

I don't disagree but just the type of guns that are available for anyone to get their hands on is my main problem. With good or bad guys.

[Jenksismyhero]

3. There have been over 200 mass shootings in 2015 already.

 

2. The small chance of you having something to defend yourself against a guy with a gun versus the effectiveness of keeping that guy from having a gun in the first place? Sure, a mass shooting a day is a reasonable sacrifice for that, right?

 

1. Do you really think it's that hard for me to find examples of people who shot in what they think is self-defense and then killed someone by accident? In a single year there's about 15,000 people injured in accidental shootings and 600 or so killed. There are plenty of easily located examples of people shooting family members that they mistook for intruders, that's an easy one.

 

The real interesting one though is the "self defense" one that is the George Zimmerman case. Although the studies are out of date because we stopped funding them to appease the NRA because every study you do on gun violence makes gun ownership look like an idiotic decision, there are several studies from the 1990s/2000s that suggest most of the "self defense" gun usages are cases that escalate, like the one we discussed here a couple years ago where 2 guys got in an argument in a pizza parlor line and wound up pulling guns on each other.

 

3. Accidental shootings are different from vigilante accidents that you're so concerned about. They involve all sorts of situations from kids using guns they're not experienced using to accidental discharges, hunting accidents, etc. We're talking about, in the midst of a mass shooting, what is the likelihood that everyone in the theater will shoot each other because they become incompetent with their guns. What are the chances that someone innocent gets shot by someone trying to do a good thing. I'm not denying that it may happen, but it's a weak to argue that it's the only, inevitable outcome when there's very little evidence to back that claim up. We can point to car accident statistics, but that doesn't mean every person over 80 WILL run someone over. It happens, but it's not the guaranteed end.

 

2. Great, print words on a piece of paper that ban guns from mass murderers. History shows that bans work and people always follow the law. Better yet, living in dream world, let's just all hope real hard that all the guns in this country (world?) disappear into thin air. Problem solved!

 

1. The majority of which are committed by criminals in a pre-meditated fashion. Not the situations we're talking about here. But even still, i'm sure the victims in those 200+ shootings would have loved to have the means to defend themselves.

[EvilMonkey]

Here's why liberals think that anyone with a gun will go crazy at a moments notice and start shooting. Its because THEY would do it if they had guns. Projection. I say we start by banning liberals from having guns. That should reduce the crime rate almost right away.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/10...n-at-boyfriend/

 

 

Barvetta Singletary, 37, who is a special assistant to President Obama and also holds the title of house legislative liaison, was charged with domestic violence in the incident, which police say occurred at her home in Upper Marlboro, Md.

 

Police say she summoned her boyfriend, who was not identified, by text message, and the two had sex. Afterward, according to the criminal complaint, Singletary went to the man’s car with him and accused him of dating other women. Inside the car, Singletary allegedly took the man’s cellphones and his service weapon, demanding passwords to unlock messages stored on the phones.

 

"You taught me how to use this,” Singletary allegedly told the man. “Don't think I won't use it."

 

Police say Singletary pointed the gun in the victim's direction and fired one round.

[caulfield12]

Here's why liberals think that anyone with a gun will go crazy at a moments notice and start shooting. Its because THEY would do it if they had guns. Projection. I say we start by banning liberals from having guns. That should reduce the crime rate almost right away.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/10...n-at-boyfriend/

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11312757/ns/poli...heney-shooting/

 

That's about as relevant as this one...all members of Bush's staff pretending to expert hunters because it sells well to the base should have had their hunting rifles taken away.

[Iwritecode]

Here's why liberals think that anyone with a gun will go crazy at a moments notice and start shooting. Its because THEY would do it if they had guns. Projection. I say we start by banning liberals from having guns. That should reduce the crime rate almost right away.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/10...n-at-boyfriend/

 

I thought you were going to link to this story.

 

The 31-year-old shot and killed his 3- and 4-year-old sons before turning the gun on himself, which left him in critical condition.

 

“He said how you can’t even walk into a movie theater anymore,” he told a business owner.

 

Fuller believed he was a good guy with a gun.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Iwritecode

[greg775]

They are checking handbags and backpacks here in Lawrence. Seems kind of silly. The low paid movie people are all teenagers.

[Kyyle23]

They are checking handbags and backpacks here in Lawrence. Seems kind of silly. The low paid movie people are all teenagers.

 

Why is it silly, Greg? Look at this thread, look at some of the horrible things that have happened in theaters? Who cares what age they are, teenagers find access to guns and do horrible things just like older people.

 

All this s*** you are talking about in this thread over people being outraged over theater shootings, and you call it silly to check people for weapons.

[Brian]

I was at a movie last week and twice during the showing, an employee came in and checked to make sure the exit was shut.

[greg775]

Why is it silly, Greg? Look at this thread, look at some of the horrible things that have happened in theaters? Who cares what age they are, teenagers find access to guns and do horrible things just like older people.

 

All this s*** you are talking about in this thread over people being outraged over theater shootings, and you call it silly to check people for weapons.

I mean they have teenagers working there checking the customers.

[Balta1701]

I mean they have teenagers working there checking the customers.

The end result is going to be that they'll establish procedures for this and maybe even bring in equipment.

 

Because if a company does this step and then a shooting does happen they've probably created a legal liability for themselves, so their insurance companies will force them to do so correctly.

[EvilMonkey]

They are checking handbags and backpacks here in Lawrence. Seems kind of silly. The low paid movie people are all teenagers.

They are checking handbags for contraband FOOD. This gives them the cover to do it. previously if they did, patrons would raise a stink about it.