Two Sobering Articles...

[caulfield12]

Casual fans are a large portion of our fan base. It is why we aren't able to have the patience that other teams do with their building process. Instead of being able to invest the time, we get the OMG 35 years! OMG 55 years! OMG White Flag... group that needs a long list of things to be right before they are willing to go to games. It is why the Sox are constantly trying to rush the rebuilds. If the Sox fan base had any loyalty to it, things could be done differently.

 

 

Except the concept of a loyal, faithful fan base that can wait out a 7 year rebuilding process (anywhere other than Cubs, Red Sox and Cardinals) is pretty much non-existent.

 

This theory will be tested with the Tigers if they go into a prolonged period of wandering in the desert with bloated payrolls and overpaid, injury-prone veterans. (Still, before 2006, nobody would describe the Tigers' fanbase as particularly loyal.)

 

Have the Blue Jays and Mariners fans been loyal during this last decade? What about Colorado?

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Except the concept of a loyal, faithful fan base that can wait out a 7 year rebuilding process (anywhere other than Cubs, Red Sox and Cardinals) is pretty much non-existent.

Except we're already at 6 years without playoffs and below .500 in year 7.

[caulfield12]

Except we're already at 6 years without playoffs and below .500 in year 7.

 

But we're SURGING!!! According to Bob Nightengale, at least.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[oldsox]

Except the concept of a loyal, faithful fan base that can wait out a 7 year rebuilding process (anywhere other than Cubs, Red Sox and Cardinals) is pretty much non-existent.

 

This theory will be tested with the Tigers if they go into a prolonged period of wandering in the desert with bloated payrolls and overpaid, injury-prone veterans. (Still, before 2006, nobody would describe the Tigers' fanbase as particularly loyal.)

 

Have the Blue Jays and Mariners fans been loyal during this last decade? What about Colorado?

46,800+ today vs the Little Red Machine.

[caulfield12]

46,800+ today vs the Little Red Machine.

 

 

If you go back more or less twenty years, the three teams with the most loyal fanbases were Colorado, Cleveland and Baltimore, as the Blue Jays ended their reign and went into a period of non-competitiveness as the Yankees took over.

 

Considering how irrelevant their teams have been throughout the season, it's pretty remarkable how well-attended Rockies and Brewers games have been this season.

 

That said, it's once again hard to make comparisons unless they're between Oak/SF, NYY/NYM, Balt/Washington or Chicago, far and away the smallest of those four multi-team markets.

 

If you compare the population of NYC with Chicago, and where the two teams (Mets and Sox) have ranked over the past five years or so in attendance (per capita based on metropolitan statistical area), it follows pretty closely in line.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Except the concept of a loyal, faithful fan base that can wait out a 7 year rebuilding process (anywhere other than Cubs, Red Sox and Cardinals) is pretty much non-existent.

 

This theory will be tested with the Tigers if they go into a prolonged period of wandering in the desert with bloated payrolls and overpaid, injury-prone veterans. (Still, before 2006, nobody would describe the Tigers' fanbase as particularly loyal.)

 

Have the Blue Jays and Mariners fans been loyal during this last decade? What about Colorado?

 

Isn't this the 7th year of the Sox rebuilding process?

 

[LDF]

Because major league baseball is a damn entertaining thing to watch. I've been to stadiums all over the country watching games played by teams I could care less about. If you love baseball, how could you not attend a game? I've sat and watched minor league, independent league, college and junior college games. Baseball is great to watch.

and if that is the case, why go to the game when you can see it on tv.

 

you can to admit that the price of the games, esp in season ticket holders are $$$$.

 

again, if your fav team is always screwing up thru bad management, why would someone go and spend the money???

[Thad Bosley]

Casual fans are a large portion of our fan base. It is why we aren't able to have the patience that other teams do with their building process. Instead of being able to invest the time, we get the OMG 35 years! OMG 55 years! OMG White Flag... group that needs a long list of things to be right before they are willing to go to games. It is why the Sox are constantly trying to rush the rebuilds. If the Sox fan base had any loyalty to it, things could be done differently.

LOL - backwards thinking, at its best!!

[Texsox]

and if that is the case, why go to the game when you can see it on tv.

 

you can to admit that the price of the games, esp in season ticket holders are $$$$.

 

again, if your fav team is always screwing up thru bad management, why would someone go and spend the money???

 

Again the casual fan really doesn't live and die by the results of their team. They go to see the show. Attending the game is a special event. The sounds, the sights, the food. There are family traditions to always go on a certain birthday, or to see X team when they come to town.

 

I hope this example doesn't steer this too far away. It's like saying I'm a Brad Pitt fan and I will only go to a movie if it's a great film and Brad Pitt is in it. If you want to see a movie you go see a movie. People attend a circus, not because they are "loyal fans of that circus", but because they want to see a circus. Same with casual fans and a baseball game. Those pick games for other reasons, the promotion, something else to do in the city, and of course that the team is winning and it's exciting to be a part of that.

 

So bottom line, if you really enjoy baseball and are a fan of baseball you go to games. Like I said, In then past decade I've watched every level of baseball played. I couldn't even tell you the team names or the schools of many of the games. Why should I spend my money to see two college teams I don't care about? Because it was fun. And I enjoyed it live way better than on TV. I enjoy live shows. I'll pay to watch a concert or play that I could easily find a recording of.

[LDF]

Again the casual fan really doesn't live and die by the results of their team. They go to see the show. Attending the game is a special event. The sounds, the sights, the food. There are family traditions to always go on a certain birthday, or to see X team when they come to town.

 

I hope this example doesn't steer this too far away. It's like saying I'm a Brad Pitt fan and I will only go to a movie if it's a great film and Brad Pitt is in it. If you want to see a movie you go see a movie. People attend a circus, not because they are "loyal fans of that circus", but because they want to see a circus. Same with casual fans and a baseball game. Those pick games for other reasons, the promotion, something else to do in the city, and of course that the team is winning and it's exciting to be a part of that.

 

So bottom line, if you really enjoy baseball and are a fan of baseball you go to games. Like I said, In then past decade I've watched every level of baseball played. I couldn't even tell you the team names or the schools of many of the games. Why should I spend my money to see two college teams I don't care about? Because it was fun. And I enjoyed it live way better than on TV. I enjoy live shows. I'll pay to watch a concert or play that I could easily find a recording of.

 

you are so far wrong on the examples you are trying to use to justify your post. i am not going to get into a 2 or 4 page rant to prove my point.

 

so without further ado, i will end this with me, here. and say this....... nah.... it was a snarky and you don't deserve it.

 

 

[caulfield12]

For example, the White Sox still drew 1,965,955 fans in 2012, coming off the horrendous 2011 campaign starring Adam Dunn.

 

That team was 4 years removed from the playoffs.

 

 

In 2014, the Minnesota Twins drew 2,250,606 fans in just their fifth year in a brand-new ballpark, but had suffered three consecutive losing seasons prior to 2014 (similarly 4 years removed from the playoffs). They also had advanced to the playoffs six times in the previous decade (2002-2004, 2006, 2009-10), compared to the White Sox making it just three times in the prior 18 years (2000, 2005, 2008).

 

 

Adjusting for the fact that you had a more successful team in a one-market city with essentially a brand-new stadium, you'd have to call that pretty much a wash in terms of support for the two teams in spite of poor performance.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

LOL - backwards thinking, at its best!!

 

To the fan who is holding grudges over 35 and 55 year periods? That doesn't surprise me at all. But then, that is our fan base.

[southsider2k5]

and if that is the case, why go to the game when you can see it on tv.

you can to admit that the price of the games, esp in season ticket holders are $$$$.

 

again, if your fav team is always screwing up thru bad management, why would someone go and spend the money???

 

This franchise is essentially last in TV viewership. They watch games at a worse rate then the go to them.

[southsider2k5]

Again the casual fan really doesn't live and die by the results of their team. They go to see the show. Attending the game is a special event. The sounds, the sights, the food. There are family traditions to always go on a certain birthday, or to see X team when they come to town.

 

I hope this example doesn't steer this too far away. It's like saying I'm a Brad Pitt fan and I will only go to a movie if it's a great film and Brad Pitt is in it. If you want to see a movie you go see a movie. People attend a circus, not because they are "loyal fans of that circus", but because they want to see a circus. Same with casual fans and a baseball game. Those pick games for other reasons, the promotion, something else to do in the city, and of course that the team is winning and it's exciting to be a part of that.

 

So bottom line, if you really enjoy baseball and are a fan of baseball you go to games. Like I said, In then past decade I've watched every level of baseball played. I couldn't even tell you the team names or the schools of many of the games. Why should I spend my money to see two college teams I don't care about? Because it was fun. And I enjoyed it live way better than on TV. I enjoy live shows. I'll pay to watch a concert or play that I could easily find a recording of.

 

I think you hit on a key point here. I honestly think that based on attendance patterns, and what respective fans say about their teams, Sox fans don't enjoy the game of baseball as much as others. They enjoy winning, and living vicariously through that, but not the game itself. They won't watch baseball just because they enjoy the game. They watch it to fill something that is missing, because when winning isn't there, they won't do it.

[Iwritecode]

I think you hit on a key point here. I honestly think that based on attendance patterns, and what respective fans say about their teams, Sox fans don't enjoy the game of baseball as much as others. They enjoy winning, and living vicariously through that, but not the game itself. They won't watch baseball just because they enjoy the game. They watch it to fill something that is missing, because when winning isn't there, they won't do it.

 

I enjoy the game of baseball. I’ve watched other teams on TV, I’ve watched minor league games in person. I’ve watched a ton of (fast-pitch and slow-pitch) softball both on TV and in person as well. From t-ball all the way up to professional.

 

The difference is that when I’m watching those games, I’m not emotionally involved in who wins or loses. When I watch the Sox, I want them to win. When they don’t, I get upset and don’t want to watch anymore. I’m not going to punish myself by watching something that’s just going to make me mad. So I’ll simply turn off the TV and find something else to do.

 

That’s just me personally. I’m sure there are still people out there that can watch the Sox and have a good time whether they win or lose.

 

I don’t think that makes me a fair-weather fan either. I still follow the team and hope they do well. I still wear my t-shirts and hats. I still defend them to my Cub fan friends. I just have a really hard time watching them lose.

 

[bmags]

I enjoy the game of baseball. I’ve watched other teams on TV, I’ve watched minor league games in person. I’ve watched a ton of (fast-pitch and slow-pitch) softball both on TV and in person as well. From t-ball all the way up to professional.

 

The difference is that when I’m watching those games, I’m not emotionally involved in who wins or loses. When I watch the Sox, I want them to win. When they don’t, I get upset and don’t want to watch anymore. I’m not going to punish myself by watching something that’s just going to make me mad. So I’ll simply turn off the TV and find something else to do.

 

That’s just me personally. I’m sure there are still people out there that can watch the Sox and have a good time whether they win or lose.

 

I don’t think that makes me a fair-weather fan either. I still follow the team and hope they do well. I still wear my t-shirts and hats. I still defend them to my Cub fan friends. I just have a really hard time watching them lose.

 

Yes, all of this.

 

I will say I enjoyed last years team even as they lost. They were very exciting in that it seemed they could hit their way back into the game those first 3 months.

[southsider2k5]

Conjecture is one thing. The statistics tell another story. White Sox fans only show up in the best of times. Attendance and TV ratings show exactly that.

[LDF]

I think you hit on a key point here. I honestly think that based on attendance patterns, and what respective fans say about their teams, Sox fans don't enjoy the game of baseball as much as others. They enjoy winning, and living vicariously through that, but not the game itself. They won't watch baseball just because they enjoy the game. They watch it to fill something that is missing, because when winning isn't there, they won't do it.

 

people and poster can banter all they want to justify this and that.

 

the bottom line is, the cost to see a lousy team or a team that is not expected to see. now if you want to include the fair wx fans, so be it. they bring in a class A type of personality to make it worth attending a game..... yeah fans are fickle, but when one looks at the way the sox org has been run, why should they spend their hard earned money on a lousy product.

[LDF]

Conjecture is one thing. The statistics tell another story. White Sox fans only show up in the best of times. Attendance and TV ratings show exactly that.

 

daily attendance plus tv viewership is = to what in actual fans watching????

[LDF]

I enjoy the game of baseball. I’ve watched other teams on TV, I’ve watched minor league games in person. I’ve watched a ton of (fast-pitch and slow-pitch) softball both on TV and in person as well. From t-ball all the way up to professional.

 

The difference is that when I’m watching those games, I’m not emotionally involved in who wins or loses. When I watch the Sox, I want them to win. When they don’t, I get upset and don’t want to watch anymore. I’m not going to punish myself by watching something that’s just going to make me mad. So I’ll simply turn off the TV and find something else to do.

 

That’s just me personally. I’m sure there are still people out there that can watch the Sox and have a good time whether they win or lose.

 

I don’t think that makes me a fair-weather fan either. I still follow the team and hope they do well. I still wear my t-shirts and hats. I still defend them to my Cub fan friends. I just have a really hard time watching them lose.

 

excellent post and let me point out a key sentence. ref bold

[southsider2k5]

people and poster can banter all they want to justify this and that.

 

the bottom line is, the cost to see a lousy team or a team that is not expected to see. now if you want to include the fair wx fans, so be it. they bring in a class A type of personality to make it worth attending a game..... yeah fans are fickle, but when one looks at the way the sox org has been run, why should they spend their hard earned money on a lousy product.

 

Yet, they will show up every single day to complain about exactly that team. Weird right? They won't waste time on going, or watching, but they waste time on complaining about them.

[southsider2k5]

daily attendance plus tv viewership is = to what in actual fans watching????

 

I have no idea what this actually means.

[LDF]

Yet, they will show up every single day to complain about exactly that team. Weird right? They won't waste time on going, or watching, but they waste time on complaining about them.

 

show up where, here???

 

isn't this a fan forum for people of all kinds to come and vent and enjoy conversation on sox baseball.

[LDF]

I have no idea what this actually means.

 

think about it.... it will come to you.

[Lip Man 1]

I enjoy the game of baseball. I’ve watched other teams on TV, I’ve watched minor league games in person. I’ve watched a ton of (fast-pitch and slow-pitch) softball both on TV and in person as well. From t-ball all the way up to professional.

 

The difference is that when I’m watching those games, I’m not emotionally involved in who wins or loses. When I watch the Sox, I want them to win. When they don’t, I get upset and don’t want to watch anymore. I’m not going to punish myself by watching something that’s just going to make me mad. So I’ll simply turn off the TV and find something else to do.

 

That’s just me personally. I’m sure there are still people out there that can watch the Sox and have a good time whether they win or lose.

 

I don’t think that makes me a fair-weather fan either. I still follow the team and hope they do well. I still wear my t-shirts and hats. I still defend them to my Cub fan friends. I just have a really hard time watching them lose.

 

From my interview with Brooks Boyer a few years ago. He understands Sox fans and their passion and it falls in line with what Iwritecode is saying. For the record I'm the same way, when the Sox are losing I really don't pay close attention...why put myself through that. Winning is what matters to me.

 

Anyway here is the comment, “I’ve found that Sox fans are extremely passionate about the team and I think there’s a lot of truth to the sense that they are really educated fans. They “get it.” I don’t pay a lot of attention to what the media says about us or the spin they try to put on things and by and large I don’t think our fans do either. They aren’t going to be influenced by what someone on TV or the radio says. They’ll look at the situation and decide based on the facts. There’s a reason our motto is, “pride, passion, tradition…” that’s a reflection of the fans and the organization. We still have something to prove both on and off the field. Our fans feel that way and they expect the same work ethic and passion from us. In fact our slogan for this season reflects that attitude, “share the passion, show the swagger.”

 

“What I don’t like about Sox fans is that there aren’t enough of them! (laughing)”

 

“About the only think that I wish I could change long-term is that sometimes the passion from our fans can be a weakness. What I mean is that a lot of Sox fans are so passionate, so into the team that if things aren’t going well, they get mad, they get fed up… they say, ‘I’m not going to watch these guys, I’m not going to listen to them and I’m not going to show up at the game.’”

 

Mark

Edited July 27, 2015 by Lip Man 1