Two Sobering Articles...

[Lip Man 1]

I'm just not sure this is true in this era any more. Even average, cost-controlled position players are starting to look like all-stars. Guys I barely wanted 5-6 years ago are now legit AS starters, while guys who today are top 10 Cy Young award people have stuff that seems like it would blow peak Johan Santana out of the water.

 

I think there is some truth to what you say. There are more guys for example dealing 100 MPH then ever before but how many teams can say they have five 'decent' starters and the bullpen to back them? Still pretty rare.

 

The Sox could be in that position if Rodon, Fullmer, Eric Johnson develop in the next two years (since they'll be losing Shark and Danks). I can understand if they feel they can't gamble and deplete that potential rotation even further. (And like with anything else, there's no guarantees someone doesn't get hurt, or simply lose it.)

 

Mark

Edited July 25, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[LDF]

That's true but they were never that irrelevant in their own market. John Allyn made the drastic changes that were needed in September 1970 after the disasters of 68 and 69 to change the direction of the franchise and by 1972 they were a contender.

 

And Bill Veeck despite his issues (and he had many) at least was always cooking up crazy things to keep the fans / media interested in the team even with four losing seasons in the five years he owned them.

 

If you look at the totality of the situation (save for the financial side - all MLB teams are rolling in money) the Sox are in a bad state right now. I talked about some of the issues in my column "Loyalty without Accountability..."

 

Attendance has dropped eight straight years, TV ratings are rock bottom, the media by and large could care less. Now throw in the Cubs who look like they have an actual future. The Sox keep stumbling around, getting in their own way, talking about "three year windows," and can't seem to right the ship.

 

That's a dangerous state to be in, in my opinion.

 

Mark

 

this is no pun on your name

 

but the sox fans have heard all the b/s lip service that the sox FO has spewed. so why should they want to or feel motivated to spend their hard earned money on a product that reaks of incompetence in the front office and their narrowmindedness of hiring lackeys for key positions such as Managers.

[Jake]

I think the team has been very watchable for about 3 or 4 weeks. A few guys have played a little better and the most aggravating thing, the defense, has gotten better. I'm not sure even how much more value it has produced but they aren't making terrible mental mistakes anymore. I can watch the team pitch its ass off, have a couple good defenders, and a few young guys that I can hope to see do well every time they bat.

[caulfield12]

I think there is some truth to what you say. There are more guys for example dealing 100 MPH then ever before but how many teams can say they have five 'decent' starters and the bullpen to back them? Still pretty rare.

 

The Sox could be in that position if Rodon, Fullmer, Eric Johnson develop in the next two years (since they'll be losing Shark and Danks). I can understand if they feel they can't gamble and deplete that potential rotation even further. (And like with anything else, there's no guarantees someone doesn't get hurt, or simply lose it.)

 

Mark

 

 

Montas is just as likely as Johnson to make an impact...he probably has the youth/confidence advantage on his side.

[The Ginger Kid]

Sox have lost the casual fan in Chicago for good. I am a diehard I watch no matter what, but most people have no interest in the Sox.

No one used to watch the blackhawks. Now the televise their skate arounds. I remember going with my dad to a Bulls game in the early 80s and that place was a tomb. Then they drafted this guy out of North Carolina.

 

It can turn around.

 

As for the 2nd article, I believe it's true that this collection of players is PLAYING very poorly, however, I don't think that means they're bad baseball players. And there are too many threads and discussions as to why that's the case to go into here.

 

And since I'm leaning "glass half full" I'll throw out this...

 

--We lost some tough games to the Royals and Cards coming out of the break, games that could've gone our way and didn't. I consider those 2 of the best teams in the game right now.

 

--We were playing solid going into the break and it looked like the worm was turning a bit. This trip to cleveland and boston could put them right back on that step.

 

--PITCHING. At the end of the day you can have a fantastic offense but if you have s***ty pitching more times than not you'll come out on the losing end. Sox have very good pitching and lo and behold, it really seems to be coming together at the right time. Yes, the right time.

 

--We're 6 back in the loss column against MIN. We were 5 back going into the break. Haven't lost a lot of ground despite the punishment from KC and STL.

 

--Is it really feasible that the sox could go the rest of the season averaging a few runs a game? I guess it could happen but isn't there at least the very real possibility for a correction of some sort? Doesn't have to be a lot to put this pitching staff on the winning side. I think we've already seen the correction in their defense.

 

--I really haven't seen any signs that players are quitting. You can see it on other teams with similar losing records but this team has managed to hold together. Robin Ventura might be the worst manager in the history of baseball dating to 1901, but they haven't quit on him.

 

--f*** it, I'm calling it right now. We're making the playoffs this year. And that's not my medical marijuana card talking...or maybe it is and I agree with it. I've used my allotment of negativity for the season (except for Tyler Flowers, I loathe him as much as Navarro and will continue to despise him until I rejoice in reading those three letters after his name, D - F - A)

[oldsox]

Good stuff, Ginger. Then, Sox should not trade Shark, right?

[Whitey]

Winning aside, this team does not have any players that the fans can really get into. Their coach is vanilla as can be, and Hawk is polarizing to the point that most Sox fans cant stand listening to him.

 

I'd love for some major changes to start happening...

 

Fire Robin

Replace Hawk and revamp TV broadcast

Trade Shark, Robertson, and Sale (or Quintana) to load up on young offensive talent

 

[LDF]

Winning aside, this team does not have any players that the fans can really get into. Their coach is vanilla as can be, and Hawk is polarizing to the point that most Sox fans cant stand listening to him.

 

I'd love for some major changes to start happening...

 

Fire Robin

Replace Hawk and revamp TV broadcast

Trade Shark, Robertson, and Sale (or Quintana) to load up on young offensive talent

 

what do you want in the tv booth, cheech and chong???

 

vanilla ..... his results as a coach has nothing to do with this kind of racial insult to us the fans and to us who are minorities. give me a freaking break.

 

hawk still have to sell a product that is absolute horrible and he as to make it enticing. how can you do that kind of selling everyday of the season??

 

for your others.... i will let other post on that.

 

Edited July 25, 2015 by LDF

[Whitey]

what do you want in the tv booth, cheech and chong???

 

vanilla ..... his results as a coach has nothing to do with this kind of racial insult to us the fans and to us who are minorities. give me a freaking break.

 

hawk still have to sell a product that is absolute horrible and he as to make it enticing. how can you do that kind of selling everyday of the season??

 

for your others.... i will let other post on that.

 

Hawk repels more viewers than he attracts and he is nationally despised. That is not good for a team struggling to engage their fans. Who do they replace him with? I don't know, but this is a big country and there are plenty of up and coming broadcasters.

 

Also, calling my comment on Robin racist shows you are looking way too hard to play the race card... I am saying Robin is plain, boring, and brings nothing special to the table. That's what calling someone vanilla means.

[LDF]

Hawk repels more viewers than he attracts and he is nationally despised. That is not good for a team struggling to engage their fans. Who do they replace him with? I don't know, but this is a big country and there are plenty of up and coming broadcasters.

 

Also, calling my comment on Robin racist shows you are looking way too hard to play the race card... I am saying Robin is plain, boring, and brings nothing special to the table. That's what calling someone vanilla means.

 

if you want to think so.

[Whitey]

if you want to think so.

 

I do... I am just going to stay in my world where I use the proper dictionary terms for words, and not insinuate race into everything that happens to be a particular color.

[elrockinMT]

Attention all Sox Fans! Attention! The depression train is now leaving the station. I think the team hierarchy did their best to put together a winning team. It coud not have been predicted we would have such a team slump. There certainly are signs of us improving and we can still be a difference maker this season. The talent is there and if we don't panic I think we can rebound this year and compete next year. It certainly seems that there is a tremendous competitive balance in MLB now. I don't think signing the elite free agent talent is the answer either. We continue to build the farm system while signing productive mid-level talent with the money we have and I am betting we will be in the hunt for sure.

[nitetrain8601]

Even more reason to trade for a guy like Puig who can bring excitement and who I think will be a force one he has a change of scenery. Like it or not, the Sox are going to have to trade some of this pitching to get everyday position players who can make an impact. Hell, I wonder if TB would be looking to sell Longoria and what they would want for him. If you can get him and Puig with Abreu in the lineup, it's starting to look a whole lot better. This team needs a flat out overhaul. If it means even giving up Sale to get a few impact guys, I might be willing to do it. And I love me some Chris Sale.

[Lip Man 1]

Just saw a story by Heyman at CBSSports.com where the Dodgers have told Puig they are not trading him for what it's worth.

 

Mark

[The Ginger Kid]

Good stuff, Ginger. Then, Sox should not trade Shark, right?

Unless a deal comes along that blows you away

[kitekrazy]

If people don't want to watch the Sox, then just don't watch them. We're better off without fair-weather fans. Just don't come back when we start winning.

 

Am I the only one that finds these statements beyond silly. How wold this attitude apply in the real world outside of professional sports?

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

if you want to think so.

 

Calling someone vanilla has NOTHING to do with race. That's just idiotic to even pretend that it does.

[Quin]

if you want to think so.

 

It's exactly what vanilla means.

 

Ozzie is Rocky Road.

 

Eaton would be mint chocolate chip.

[Thad Bosley]

Don't say that. You'll hurt everyone's feelings who thinks they are the greatest fans ever.

We may not have the largest fan base around, but the fans we do have are, in fact, great. The fact they support this club at all with the crappy teams they've been subjected to over the last 55 years supports that claim. Perhaps you could focus your contributions to the discussion on the reason for all of those poor teams, which is the ineffectual ownership and management over those 55 years, and less on bashing White Sox fans every chance you get.

[southsider2k5]

We may not have the largest fan base around, but the fans we do have are, in fact, great. The fact they support this club at all with the crappy teams they've been subjected to over the last 55 years supports that claim. Perhaps you could focus your contributions to the discussion on the reason for all of those poor teams, which is the ineffectual ownership and management over those 55 years, and less on bashing White Sox fans every chance you get.

 

Yeah, last in TV ratings and 4th to last in attendance. Great support there.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, last in TV ratings and 4th to last in attendance. Great support there.

 

What teams have worse records combined over the last three years and no playoff appearances for seven? (Even the Phillies are WAY down in attendance and they're not sharing a market, in fact, they have one of the biggest for a "one team" market...

 

The teams below us are the Indians, Marlins, Rays and A's.

 

Three of those teams have appeared in the playoffs more recently, and the Marlins have a state of the art facility.

 

 

For example, the Astros still aren't getting good tv ratings (they're so-so/bottom tier) and they've got one of the most exciting young teams, you can't just expect the fans to come back in droves even when you start competing unless you're the Cubs.

 

Even the Angels are losing tons of fans and their ratings are also abysmal...it's just that they have a much larger population base to draw from, or they would be considered the most dysfunctional organization in the league.

[Texsox]

If people don't want to watch the Sox, then just don't watch them. We're better off without fair-weather fans. Just don't come back when we start winning.

 

Sorry, but that is entirely wrong. The casual fans are the ones that in the end determine the attendance. Those fair weather fans that attend a game or two every year buy hundreds of thousands of tickets. The hard core fan base of both Chicago teams is about the same. What the two teams fight for are the "fair weather fans" who decide which team to go see. It's unfair really to call the fair weather fans, they don't necessarily declare loyalty to any team. They just like getting to a baseball game now and then. The Sox lost them in the 1970s by trying pay per view while the Cubs were carried on WGN. They don't attend the games on the cheap. It's an event and they will buy the souvenirs, pay the going rate for parking, eat and drink. They will get their peanuts and crackerjacks.

 

Without casual fans the team has the payroll of the Pirates.

[Texsox]

this is no pun on your name

 

but the sox fans have heard all the b/s lip service that the sox FO has spewed. so why should they want to or feel motivated to spend their hard earned money on a product that reaks of incompetence in the front office and their narrowmindedness of hiring lackeys for key positions such as Managers.

 

Because major league baseball is a damn entertaining thing to watch. I've been to stadiums all over the country watching games played by teams I could care less about. If you love baseball, how could you not attend a game? I've sat and watched minor league, independent league, college and junior college games. Baseball is great to watch.

[Lip Man 1]

Sorry, but that is entirely wrong. The casual fans are the ones that in the end determine the attendance. Those fair weather fans that attend a game or two every year buy hundreds of thousands of tickets. The hard core fan base of both Chicago teams is about the same. What the two teams fight for are the "fair weather fans" who decide which team to go see. It's unfair really to call the fair weather fans, they don't necessarily declare loyalty to any team. They just like getting to a baseball game now and then. The Sox lost them in the 1970s by trying pay per view while the Cubs were carried on WGN. They don't attend the games on the cheap. It's an event and they will buy the souvenirs, pay the going rate for parking, eat and drink. They will get their peanuts and crackerjacks.

 

Without casual fans the team has the payroll of the Pirates.

 

Just one correction, SportsVision was started in 1982. Outside of that I agree with your comment.

 

Mark

Edited July 27, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[southsider2k5]

Sorry, but that is entirely wrong. The casual fans are the ones that in the end determine the attendance. Those fair weather fans that attend a game or two every year buy hundreds of thousands of tickets. The hard core fan base of both Chicago teams is about the same. What the two teams fight for are the "fair weather fans" who decide which team to go see. It's unfair really to call the fair weather fans, they don't necessarily declare loyalty to any team. They just like getting to a baseball game now and then. The Sox lost them in the 1970s by trying pay per view while the Cubs were carried on WGN. They don't attend the games on the cheap. It's an event and they will buy the souvenirs, pay the going rate for parking, eat and drink. They will get their peanuts and crackerjacks.

 

Without casual fans the team has the payroll of the Pirates.

 

Casual fans are a large portion of our fan base. It is why we aren't able to have the patience that other teams do with their building process. Instead of being able to invest the time, we get the OMG 35 years! OMG 55 years! OMG White Flag... group that needs a long list of things to be right before they are willing to go to games. It is why the Sox are constantly trying to rush the rebuilds. If the Sox fan base had any loyalty to it, things could be done differently.