Two Sobering Articles...

[LDF]

From my interview with Brooks Boyer a few years ago. He understands Sox fans and their passion and it falls in line with what Iwritecode is saying. For the record I'm the same way, when the Sox are losing I really don't pay close attention...why put myself through that. Winning is what matters to me.

 

Anyway here is the comment, “I’ve found that Sox fans are extremely passionate about the team and I think there’s a lot of truth to the sense that they are really educated fans. They “get it.” I don’t pay a lot of attention to what the media says about us or the spin they try to put on things and by and large I don’t think our fans do either. They aren’t going to be influenced by what someone on TV or the radio says. They’ll look at the situation and decide based on the facts. There’s a reason our motto is, “pride, passion, tradition…” that’s a reflection of the fans and the organization. We still have something to prove both on and off the field. Our fans feel that way and they expect the same work ethic and passion from us. In fact our slogan for this season reflects that attitude, “share the passion, show the swagger.”

 

“What I don’t like about Sox fans is that there aren’t enough of them! (laughing)”

 

“About the only think that I wish I could change long-term is that sometimes the passion from our fans can be a weakness. What I mean is that a lot of Sox fans are so passionate, so into the team that if things aren’t going well, they get mad, they get fed up… they say, ‘I’m not going to watch these guys, I’m not going to listen to them and I’m not going to show up at the game.’”

 

Mark

 

excellent post.... and that is the key word. passionate.... the time to have done or stole the lion share was mishandled at the sox FO. the only way i can see the sox getting into a competitions for fans, esp where they are located at, is to win and make the playoff. yearly. while at the same time the morthsiders fall on their face.

 

yeah that a big wish, but .......

 

[Thad Bosley]

To the fan who is holding grudges over 35 and 55 year periods? That doesn't surprise me at all. But then, that is our fan base.

I know it's inconvenient for you to offer up anything that might remotely resemble being critical of Sox ownership and management, but if you think pointing out the absolutely wretched record of achievement of this organization (only 5 playoff appearances over the past 55 years!) is simply me holding a grudge, then I don't know what to tell ya. If you are satisfied with the results of this half past century, then I also don't know what to tell ya. What I will tell you is that it's backwards thinking and flat out unfair to somehow blame the fans for this. The fans have certainly done their fair share to make Jerry Reinsdorf a very rich man over the past 35 years. He's come a long, long ways since his initial $20M investment. He's just come up way short on his part of the bargain, and there is no way to argue otherwise.

[southsider2k5]

I know it's inconvenient for you to offer up anything that might remotely resemble being critical of Sox ownership and management, but if you think pointing out the absolutely wretched record of achievement of this organization (only 5 playoff appearances over the past 55 years!) is simply me holding a grudge, then I don't know what to tell ya. If you are satisfied with the results of this half past century, then I also don't know what to tell ya. What I will tell you is that it's backwards thinking and flat out unfair to somehow blame the fans for this. The fans have certainly done their fair share to make Jerry Reinsdorf a very rich man over the past 35 years. He's come a long, long ways since his initial $20M investment. He's just come up way short on his part of the bargain, and there is no way to argue otherwise.

 

In virtually every post, we are reminded of 35 years and/or 55 years. Yeah, that's not a grudge, lol. It is a virtual old man yelling at people to stay off his lawn, and talking about how good he had it in his day.

 

And yet here you are, still complaining day after day after day about this franchise... after 35 years of disappointment. Apparently after 35 years of such a miserable existence, you are still here? You still haven't learned a lesson after 55 years? Sorry, who is the backwards thinker?

[LDF]

In virtually every post, we are reminded of 35 years and/or 55 years. Yeah, that's not a grudge, lol. It is a virtual old man yelling at people to stay off his lawn, and talking about how good he had it in his day.

 

And yet here you are, still complaining day after day after day about this franchise... after 35 years of disappointment. Apparently after 35 years of such a miserable existence, you are still here? You still haven't learned a lesson after 55 years? Sorry, who is the backwards thinker?

 

what is this idea that you shouldn't use a sport forum to do anything than what????

 

why can't we express anger??? are you the board policeman ???

 

jeez that was several times you mention this.

[southsider2k5]

what is this idea that you shouldn't use a sport forum to do anything than what????

 

why can't we express anger??? are you the board policeman ???

 

jeez that was several times you mention this.

 

But still a fraction of the "35 years!" posts. If you are really that miserable because of watching a game, yet have done it for 35 or 55 years, the problem isn't with the team.

[LDF]

But still a fraction of the "35 years!" posts. If you are really that miserable because of watching a game, yet have done it for 35 or 55 years, the problem isn't with the team.

 

but and i hope this explain my point.

 

if we, the ones who claims to be die hard fans, do we not have a right to b**** and moan and by comparison give the team praises, in any post on any give day??

 

are we suppose to not see what is happening, but to tell the lies and to avoid the truth.

[Billness33]

i still give the season tickets holder credit for going to their games.....

 

Thank you.

[caulfield12]

And yet a year or two ago, when the Astros broke all-time records for the worst television ratings and their flagship station went bankrupt essentially (same with the Rockets, it was a complicated deal), we were making fun on them.

 

Who wanted to watch the Astros a couple of seasons ago? Same thing with the White Sox, it had been since 2005 for their last playoff appearance. None of the players were recognizable (Berkman, Biggio, Bagwell, Beltran, Killer B's, etc.) and they had been rebuilding that entire time.

 

It's not like fans of other teams are so different.

 

And it's also not like the tv ratings for the Astros and Twins have jumped right back into the top ten although both teams have been in first place or near it for the majority of the season.

 

What were the t.v. ratings in 2012 for the season? What were they for the Cubs that year? The Cubs weren't much above us the last couple of seasons, their ratings were abysmal as well.

 

Exciting players are promoted, team's competitive for the first time since 2008, fans go back to watching their tv's.

 

The White Sox have basically been under .500 this entire season, and the one time they got back to .500, they proceeded to quickly fall back to 6-7 games back under in the span of about 10 days. The Royals, Twins, Tigers and Indians have been ahead of the Sox nearly the entire year since April.

 

Having followed the team for most of the season, there have been numerous defensive and baserunning lapses. One of the most fundamentally inept teams in Sox history. Other than a slew of comeback wins that allowed us to survive the first six weeks not totally buried, this would be one of the worst seasons ever for a Sox television viewer. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad had the offseason not been so promising, not unlike 2011 when Dunn laid an egg. The offense until recently has set historic worsts on a weekly basis, and was one of the 5-6 worst in all-time history, etc.

 

Finally, the franchise hitting superstar has been a shadow of his 2014 version. The ONLY reason to get excited about this team for much of the season has been watching Chris Sale, Carlos Rodon and David Robertson (some are going to say Tyler Saladino for 50 at-bats, but Gordon Beckham can look selectively good for that long, too). And, as KW has pointed out over and over again, fans want entertainment, they want fireworks, they want offense if the team's going to be around .500.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

but and i hope this explain my point.

 

if we, the ones who claims to be die hard fans, do we not have a right to b**** and moan and by comparison give the team praises, in any post on any give day??

 

are we suppose to not see what is happening, but to tell the lies and to avoid the truth.

 

If you are upset over 35/55 years and STILL going back for more? The team isn't the problem.

[bmags]

I'm still upset about the Kotsay over Thome decision.

[caulfield12]

The least the White Sox could have done when they picked a Little League manager with no time put in the minor leagues or as a bench/1st/3rd base coach would have been to name a former catcher.

 

Even with that perspective, it might not prevent Ausmus from getting fired, either this season or inevitably next year.

 

If you're hiring a manager with "training wheels," it has to be an organization like St. Louis (Matheny) with the utmost confidence in the world (the Cardinals Way), seamless communication and a deeply-ingrained instructional system between their major and minor league systems. (And yes, even that's been frayed a bit by the hacking scandal and firing of the scouting director.)

 

With the White Sox, our front office guys are pulling in two different directions, which must be uncomfortable for those below them in the organizational chain of command. And then there's Cooper, who just does as he pleases...and that mostly works as evidenced by the success of the pitching staff again this season, but it doesn't lead to one of the most cohesive coaching staffs IMO.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[Thad Bosley]

In virtually every post, we are reminded of 35 years and/or 55 years. Yeah, that's not a grudge, lol. It is a virtual old man yelling at people to stay off his lawn, and talking about how good he had it in his day.

 

And yet here you are, still complaining day after day after day about this franchise... after 35 years of disappointment. Apparently after 35 years of such a miserable existence, you are still here? You still haven't learned a lesson after 55 years? Sorry, who is the backwards thinker?

Ah, but yet I am a forward thinker, you see. One who looks forward with boundless hope to the dawn of a new day for the Chicago White Sox when a new and far more effective ownership and management team comes in and takes over, and all of the ill-begotten strategies and approaches of the past 35 years are swept to the curb. That day will come, but until then, I'll continue to accurately assess the current state of things, and where I see fit to point out the shortcomings of the current ownership and management team for their continuous failure, I will.

[southsider2k5]

Ah, but yet I am a forward thinker, you see. One who looks forward with boundless hope to the dawn of a new day for the Chicago White Sox when a new and far more effective ownership and management team comes in and takes over, and all of the ill-begotten strategies and approaches of the past 35 years are swept to the curb. That day will come, but until then, I'll continue to accurately assess the current state of things, and where I see fit to point out the shortcomings of the current ownership and management team for their continuous failure, I will.

 

A forward thinker isn't using what happened in 1960 as a reason for not doing something in 2015. That is the exact opposite of forward thinking. That is up there with seat color and the what the teams profits from 2006 were as "good" reasons to not go to games in 2015, for the most ridiculous stuff I have read on Soxtalk.

[Thad Bosley]

A forward thinker isn't using what happened in 1960 as a reason for not doing something in 2015. That is the exact opposite of forward thinking. That is up there with seat color and the what the teams profits from 2006 were as "good" reasons to not go to games in 2015, for the most ridiculous stuff I have read on Soxtalk.

LOL - what in the Sam h-e-double-toothpick are you talking about! Honestly, in your fervor to superficially bash the fans every chance you get, you seem to lose the ability to process what people post around here. I've never once reached back to 1960 to find a reason for why a Sox fan today might not tune into or attend a game of the 2015 team. The performance of this year's team has given them ample reason to stay away. When I bring up Reinsdorf's horrendous record as owner of the Sox during these past 35 years that have very little to show in terms of achievement, and even worse (as if possible, but it is!), the combined records of the Veeck/Allyn ownerships dating back to 1960, it's to explain why we don't have the robust fan base today one would expect a large market team to have. The putrid results of the last 55 years, including the 35 years of the most recent owner, have been less than desirable. Unless I'm wrong about that, SS2K. Is my assessment of the Reinsdorf years wrong, or that of the past 55 years? Because if I am wrong, please! Explain to me the error of my ways - provided your explanation doesn't include a misguided and inaccurate blaming of the fans. That dog won't hunt.

[southsider2k5]

LOL - what in the Sam h-e-double-toothpick are you talking about! Honestly, in your fervor to superficially bash the fans every chance you get, you seem to lose the ability to process what people post around here. I've never once reached back to 1960 to find a reason for why a Sox fan today might not tune into or attend a game of the 2015 team. The performance of this year's team has given them ample reason to stay away. When I bring up Reinsdorf's horrendous record as owner of the Sox during these past 35 years that have very little to show in terms of achievement, and even worse (as if possible, but it is!), the combined records of the Veeck/Allyn ownerships dating back to 1960, it's to explain why we don't have the robust fan base today one would expect a large market team to have. The putrid results of the last 55 years, including the 35 years of the most recent owner, have been less than desirable. Unless I'm wrong about that, SS2K. Is my assessment of the Reinsdorf years wrong, or that of the past 55 years? Because if I am wrong, please! Explain to me the error of my ways - provided your explanation doesn't include a misguided and inaccurate blaming of the fans. That dog won't hunt.

 

Um, you reach back to 1960 very regularly. In fact, you did it in the very post where you are trying to argue you don't. Not only that, you did it thrice.

[Thad Bosley]

Um, you reach back to 1960 very regularly. In fact, you did it in the very post where you are trying to argue you don't. Not only that, you did it thrice.

And in what context do I consistently refer to 1960? (Hint - I just explained it to you.)

[southsider2k5]

And in what context do I consistently refer to 1960? (Hint - I just explained it to you.)

 

Your attempt at "explaining" was a feeble attempt to have it both ways. You are flat out referring to the 1960's as a reason the Sox don't have fans who go to games in 2015, but are trying to deny it in the same breath.

 

Trying to use what happened in 1960 as a reason why people don't go to Sox games in 2015 is quite literally the worst reason I have ever heard given to be a bandwagon fan. If you want to be miserable and bitter about what happened 10, 20, 30, 40, 50+ years ago, feel free. But don't lie about it.

[oldsox]

Hey, can't we all just get along?

[Thad Bosley]

Your attempt at "explaining" was a feeble attempt to have it both ways. You are flat out referring to the 1960's as a reason the Sox don't have fans who go to games in 2015, but are trying to deny it in the same breath.

 

Trying to use what happened in 1960 as a reason why people don't go to Sox games in 2015 is quite literally the worst reason I have ever heard given to be a bandwagon fan. If you want to be miserable and bitter about what happened 10, 20, 30, 40, 50+ years ago, feel free. But don't lie about it.

The only thing feeble here is your reading and comprehension capabilities. I have never said, NOT ONCE, that what happened in the year 1960 is having an impact on the year 2015. When I bring 1960 up in any context, it is to state that it's the starting point of a very poor 55 YEAR RUN for our franchise, a run where we've only made it to the postseason five times. I am commenting on a period of time and not one year. It supports the greater narrative as to why the Sox have struggled with attention for the past half century. Every post I've made on this topic has been crystal clear on this point. For you to continually twist my words and regurgitate a wholly inaccurate version of what I said is really unfortunate and quite sad on your part.

[southsider2k5]

LOL - what in the Sam h-e-double-toothpick are you talking about! Honestly, in your fervor to superficially bash the fans every chance you get, you seem to lose the ability to process what people post around here. I've never once reached back to 1960 to find a reason for why a Sox fan today might not tune into or attend a game of the 2015 team. The performance of this year's team has given them ample reason to stay away. When I bring up Reinsdorf's horrendous record as owner of the Sox during these past 35 years that have very little to show in terms of achievement, and even worse (as if possible, but it is!), the combined records of the Veeck/Allyn ownerships dating back to 1960, it's to explain why we don't have the robust fan base today one would expect a large market team to have. The putrid results of the last 55 years, including the 35 years of the most recent owner, have been less than desirable. Unless I'm wrong about that, SS2K. Is my assessment of the Reinsdorf years wrong, or that of the past 55 years? Because if I am wrong, please! Explain to me the error of my ways - provided your explanation doesn't include a misguided and inaccurate blaming of the fans. That dog won't hunt.

 

 

The only thing feeble here is your reading and comprehension capabilities. I have never said, NOT ONCE, that what happened in the year 1960 is having an impact on the year 2015. When I bring 1960 up in any context, it is to state that it's the starting point of a very poor 55 YEAR RUN for our franchise, a run where we've only made it to the postseason five times. I am commenting on a period of time and not one year. It supports the greater narrative as to why the Sox have struggled with attention for the past half century. Every post I've made on this topic has been crystal clear on this point. For you to continually twist my words and regurgitate a wholly inaccurate version of what I said is really unfortunate and quite sad on your part.

 

Yes, every post you have made has been very clear. Fans aren't going to games today because we didn't go to the enough playoffs in the 1960's.

 

[knightni]

Yes, every post you have made has been very clear. Fans aren't going to games today because we didn't go to the enough playoffs in the 1960's.

There were no playoffs until 1969.

[LDF]

Yes, every post you have made has been very clear. Fans aren't going to games today because we didn't go to the enough playoffs in the 1960's.

 

i am not and i mean not taking sides in this.

 

imo. the real reason the sox does not have a fan base is b/c of no foresight. getting on wgn staying o wgn and great advertising.... fast forward to the 80's the new sox onwership went on a sports vision channel which was owned by eddie eihorn, sox owners.

 

next is the screw up and major bluff on moving and getting stuck still where they are still. while the cubs is expanding their fan based.

 

bottom line..... sox lack of fans, poor decision making in or at major times when it could have matter. it is a continuous lack of no common sense.

[Thad Bosley]

Yes, every post you have made has been very clear. Fans aren't going to games today because we didn't go to the enough playoffs in the 1960's.

 

Why don't you BOLD the ENTIRE sentence you SELECTIVELY bolded from that previous post of mine you included in your last post, and then explain how you are tragically trying to show how that statement, TAKEN IN ITS PROPER ENTIRETY AND CONTEXT, supports what you are claiming is my intended message in your bolded statement above. Go ahead. Do it. Then maybe we can conduct this conversation in a reasonable manner.

[southsider2k5]

Why don't you BOLD the ENTIRE sentence you SELECTIVELY bolded from that previous post of mine you included in your last post, and then explain how you are tragically trying to show how that statement, TAKEN IN ITS PROPER ENTIRETY AND CONTEXT, supports what you are claiming is my intended message in your bolded statement above. Go ahead. Do it. Then maybe we can conduct this conversation in a reasonable manner.

 

The context is all there. You are keep trying to pull back to generations earlier and use it against the team, but then try to claim that you aren't using as a reason for 2015. It is trying to have it both ways. It is really obvious, even if you don't want to admit it. I honestly don't think you will ever be able to have a "reasonable" conversation on this topic, because the grudge and anger here seem to run really deep, which is why the same posts about 35 and 55 years ago keep coming up over and over and over again in so many other topics and threads.

 

Referring back to the 1960's/70's/80's fan bases, in multiple conversations about attendance in 2015, but trying to claim they weren't about attendance in 2015 is disingenuous at best. You can rant and get angry all you want, but the point you were trying to make is obvious, even as you retreat from it because you see how absurd it is. If you didn't want to make the point, you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place in the context that you did.

[caulfield12]

The context is all there. You are keep trying to pull back to generations earlier and use it against the team, but then try to claim that you aren't using as a reason for 2015. It is trying to have it both ways. It is really obvious, even if you don't want to admit it. I honestly don't think you will ever be able to have a "reasonable" conversation on this topic, because the grudge and anger here seem to run really deep, which is why the same posts about 35 and 55 years ago keep coming up over and over and over again in so many other topics and threads.

 

Referring back to the 1960's/70's/80's fan bases, in multiple conversations about attendance in 2015, but trying to claim they weren't about attendance in 2015 is disingenuous at best. You can rant and get angry all you want, but the point you were trying to make is obvious, even as you retreat from it because you see how absurd it is. If you didn't want to make the point, you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place in the context that you did.

 

 

In all fairness, it was more to point out the lack of playoff appearances from 1959 on (which is basically zero until you get to 1983) and the relative lack of success (although still better than the 60's and 70's) under Reinsdorf.

 

On one hand, JR has worked miracles, if you want to compare it to the previous two decades.

 

On the other, if you compare it with all the teams in baseball history, we're going to end up in the bottom 3rd in terms of recent success and definitely historical playoff/postseason success.

 

Actually, you could probably argue the opposite point. That winning the World Series in 2005 took some of the interest and pressure off fans who had waited a whole lifetime and they went back to normal lives and families, much as a lot of the old posters at SoxTalk and WSI disappeared.

 

Of the oldest franchises, it's hard to think of one besides maybe the Cleveland Indians with a less successful track record.

 

And even the Indians had that amazing run in the 90's with all those consecutive sellouts at Jacobs Field. Basically, from 1994-2002. Of course, it didn't end in a World Series title, but that was one of the best teams ever not to win one.