The Teams in Front of us in the Wild Card

[LDF]

What matters is the actual value of the player and not their organizational rating. For instance, the Sox #10 is Nolan Sanburn and the Dodgers #10 is Austin Barnes. I don't think too many people would argue against Barnes being more valuable than Sanburn.

 

I have no problem taking the comp pick if the Sox do not get a good offer but bare in mind comp picks are years away from helping the ML club if they develop. Imo, the Sox will get at least one player that has more value than a comp pick.

 

Pentecost has not played yet this year due his having a second surgery on his throwing shoulder.

 

I'm hoping the Sox can manage a Samardzija for Barnes trade somehow.

 

nice logic and breakdown.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Winning these three games just makes selling harder for the fans to accept than buying. Notice than no one is really thinking about adding a bat to make the playoffs. The choices still are staying pat or selling.

 

I've said that maybe Hahn is trying to make a trade that would not signify surrender of the season perhaps by getting someone that could be put in the lineup right away . You give up Shark and maybe a RP, Adam LaRoche , Avisail Garcia ,whoever the Sox think they can trade and not miss a beat if all goes well . Eric Johnson replaces Samardzija, the bullpen has Jones coming back, Albers ready to take a larger roll, Carroll could pitch long relief which he's shown he can do fairly well . Either get back a youngster ready to play now (what position I have no idea ) or a young vet he can plug into the DH, OF or catcher .Like Dalton Pompey or LH OF like Andre Ethier only not as costly.

 

DH , catcher and OF right now this season are biggest needs if you assume Alexei, Sanchez and Saladino will continue doing well . Plug one of those holes hope Johnson pitches well . Avisail might be more tradeable but if you trade LaRoche with Shark get an OF or C back and plug Avi or Micah in at DH.

Edited July 26, 2015 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Texsox]

Good analysis. In the back of my mind is a belief that the organization remembers the terrible backlash after the "White Flag Trade" and has vowed not to repeat it.

[LDF]

Good analysis. In the back of my mind is a belief that the organization remembers the terrible backlash after the "White Flag Trade" and has vowed not to repeat it.

 

good point and i agree. but the difference is, the white flag was totally unexpected and there was a possibility of making the playoff. this time around, the fans are on board and it is virtually impossible, by the longest odds, to make the playoff.

 

we are practically asking the fo to make a smart trade.

[caulfield12]

Would anyone be happy if we traded Tim Anderson and Montas for Justin Upton, for example?

 

Sure, we can upgrade one position offensively, but even someone like Upton is going to force Avi to the bench...and he's never played in the AL, so you'll have the inevitable league adjustment, and then you'll end up losing him as a free agent.

 

If they're going to add a bat, he better already be familiar with AL Central pitching, or it's pointless.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that a compensation pick has about a 10% chance of helping us 3-5 years from now. On the other hand, Hahn can't just sit there patiently waiting for something to happen in terms of improving the line-up ("this compensation pick is part of our new and improved five year plan") or he'll be out of a job before Ventura.

[caulfield12]

Good analysis. In the back of my mind is a belief that the organization remembers the terrible backlash after the "White Flag Trade" and has vowed not to repeat it.

 

That's all fine and good, but that was before 2005.

 

Most intelligent White Sox fans realize that desperation to get back into a one-game playoff isn't as important as preserving the viability of competing over that 3-5 year window we keep hearing about.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

I've said that maybe Hahn is trying to make a trade that would not signify surrender of the season perhaps by getting someone that could be put in the lineup fairly soon. You give up Shark and maybe a RP, Adam LaRoche , Avisail Garcia ,whoever the Sox think they can trade and not miss a beat if all goes well Eric Johnson replaces Samardzija, the bullpen has Jones coming back, Albers ready to take a larger roll, Carroll could pitch long relief which he's shown he can do fairly well . Either get back a youngster ready to play now (what position I have no idea ) or a young vet he can plug into the DH role or catcher . OR maybe an OF like Dalton Pompey a LH OF like Ethier only not as costly, then switch Avi to DH or even Micah Johnson .

This is along the lines of what I was thinking when I posted a proposed trade in the trade winds forum of Samardzija/ Danks/Putnam for Barnes/ Ethier/ low A ball pitcher. Instead of paying Samardzija roughly 18M+ per year for the next five years, upgrade RF offensively and defensively with Ethier for the next two or three years ( 2018 vesting option). Avi can rotate in to play LF, RF and platoon DH with LaRoche.

[Texsox]

That's all fine and good, but that was before 2005.

 

Most intelligent White Sox fans realize that desperation to get back into a one-game playoff isn't as important as preserving the viability of competing over that 3-5 year window we keep hearing about.

 

I agree 100%. Now seriously what percentage of non intelligent fans make up the ticket buying and TV watching public? I believe the vast majority of fans believe they are intelligent fans because they listen to the pre and post game shows and know what those talking heads are saying. How few actually get to the level of discussions we have here? They are mostly dittoheads of the experts, both local and national. We laugh those off, yet we hear that stuff repeated all the time.

[LDF]

Would anyone be happy if we traded Tim Anderson and Montas for Justin Upton, for example?

 

Sure, we can upgrade one position offensively, but even someone like Upton is going to force Avi to the bench...and he's never played in the AL, so you'll have the inevitable league adjustment, and then you'll end up losing him as a free agent.

 

If they're going to add a bat, he better already be familiar with AL Central pitching, or it's pointless.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that a compensation pick has about a 10% chance of helping us 3-5 years from now. On the other hand, Hahn can't just sit there patiently waiting for something to happen in terms of improving the line-up ("this compensation pick is part of our new and improved five year plan") or he'll be out of a job before Ventura.

 

there has never been any discussion, rumors or suggestion, until now of moving anderson and upton. so come on get real.

 

you and many know the only person who has been discussed of being moved is shark.

 

there is according to the fo a 3-yr plan. so the problem is moving the pieces that is going to be lost or would be a surplus of players that can be moved for better prospects.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Would anyone be happy if we traded Tim Anderson and Montas for Justin Upton, for example?

 

Sure, we can upgrade one position offensively, but even someone like Upton is going to force Avi to the bench...and he's never played in the AL, so you'll have the inevitable league adjustment, and then you'll end up losing him as a free agent.

 

If they're going to add a bat, he better already be familiar with AL Central pitching, or it's pointless.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that a compensation pick has about a 10% chance of helping us 3-5 years from now. On the other hand, Hahn can't just sit there patiently waiting for something to happen in terms of improving the line-up ("this compensation pick is part of our new and improved five year plan") or he'll be out of a job before Ventura.

 

 

Let's just say Hahn wants a young player to plug into the lineup right away this year to plug either the DH, C or RF hole. That means besides Shark the Sox could move any relief pitcher except Robertson , Adam LaRoche, Avisail Garcia, Micah Johnson, Montas, Anderson , Soto, Flowers , etc just don't include Saladino, Sanchez, Alexei , Abreu, Eaton and Melky . Defensively not a bad INF currently hitting well ..

 

So say the Sox target Dalton Pompey of the Blue Jays a toolsy OF no power , very good defense but pretty young at 22 ,or 31 yr old Chris Colabello who can play 1st base and OF though probably not a good OF but hitting very good this year . BJ's get Shark let them choose the relief pitcher they want or sweeten the pot or add more players for either guy and/or more. Maybe in a separate trade LaRoche can be booted in a salary dump and Colabello becomes the DH . There are a lot of ways to mix and match players to improve this year and in the future while plugging holes .

 

A guy like Colabello might not be valued here because he wouldn't be a core piece or have much upside but he is what we are lacking now and that is a solid hitter . Toronto's offense might not suffer too much without him getting back the pitching help they desperately need and our pitching might not suffer too much if Eric Johnson does a semi Shark impersonation but the offense gets better. Maybe you get them both (Colabello and Pompey) and give up Avi . It's doable.

[caulfield12]

Let's just say Hahn wants a young player to plug into the lineup right away this year to plug either the DH, C or RF hole. That means besides Shark the Sox could move any relief pitcher except Robertson , Adam LaRoche, Avisail Garcia, Micah Johnson, Montas, Anderson , Soto, Flowers , etc just don't include Saladino, Sanchez, Alexei , Abreu, Eaton and Melky . Defensively not a bad INF currently hitting well ..

 

So say the Sox target Dalton Pompey of the Blue Jays a toolsy OF no power , very good defense but pretty young at 22 ,or 31 yr old Chris Colabello who can play 1st base and OF though probably not a good OF but hitting very good this year . BJ's get Shark let them choose the relief pitcher they want or sweeten the pot or add more players for either guy and/or more. Maybe in a separate trade LaRoche can be booted in a salary dump and Colabello becomes the DH . There are a lot of ways to mix and match players to improve this year and in the future while plugging holes .

 

A guy like Colabello might not be valued here because he wouldn't be a core piece or have much upside but he is what we are lacking now and that is a solid hitter . Toronto's offense might not suffer too much without him getting back the pitching help they desperately need and our pitching might not suffer too much if Eric Johnson does a semi Shark impersonation but the offense gets better. Maybe you get them both (Colabello and Pompey) and give up Avi . It's doable.

 

Therein lies the problem. Those are incremental improvements, at best. With Collabello, he was red hot for the Twins a year or two and completely disappeared. With the Blue Jays' line-up, he has a lot more protection around him, in the sense that he's one of those 2-3 guys a starter won't worry about, then, boom, he ends up hurting you because they don't walk to walk him and put him on base for some of the big boppers.

 

Pompey would be fine, but then that diminishes your power even more in the outfield, giving you two guys in Eaton and Pompey that in most years would be expected to combine for 12-15 homers. Unless his defense is Gold Glove caliber, like a Juan Lagares, it's not going to work.

 

And I'm not sure that they can trade LaRoche without taking a big hit in terms of eating part of the financial commitment for 2016 and Avi's value is pretty much at Viciedo mid 2013 level. They pretty much have to ride it out the rest of this season with him and wait for another two months to make a determination for next year unless they plan to shock the world by going after Heyward, Gordon or Cespedes.

Edited July 26, 2015 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's all fine and good, but that was before 2005.

 

Most intelligent White Sox fans realize that desperation to get back into a one-game playoff isn't as important as preserving the viability of competing over that 3-5 year window we keep hearing about.

 

Doing better this year and in the future "window" are not mutually exclusive . Both can be accomplished at the same time . Face it LaRoche flopped big time. The Sox would've been better off with that other French guy Jeff Francouer at DH or RF . At least he can field and has a hell of an arm. Do we really have to see him next year so we are reminded of Adam Dunn constantly who the Sox never benched or got rid of until it was too late?

 

So right now Hahn and company cannot be married to LaRoche or Avi. The best way to improve is admit the mistakes you made by dumping them asap if it's likely their level of production is holding down the team in that window.

 

Even if I believe Avi will be a very good hitter one day right now or next year he might not be . He doesn't take walks and doesn't field his position well. When a guy like Francouer can make you look bad things have to be re-evaluated.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Therein lies the problem. Those are incremental improvements, at best. With Collabello, he was red hot for the Twins a year or two and completely disappeared. With the Blue Jays' line-up, he has a lot more protection around him, in the sense that he's one of those 2-3 guys a starter won't worry about, then, boom, he ends up hurting you because they don't walk to walk him and put him on base for some of the big boppers.

 

Pompey would be fine, but then that diminishes your power even more in the outfield, giving you two guys in Eaton and Pompey that in most years would be expected to combine for 12-15 homers. Unless his defense is Gold Glove caliber, like a Juan Lagares, it's not going to work.

 

And I'm not sure that they can trade LaRoche without taking a big hit in terms of eating part of the financial commitment for 2016 and Avi's value is pretty much at Viciedo mid 2013 level. They pretty much have to ride it out the rest of this season with him and wait for another two months to make a determination for next year unless they plan to shock the world by going after Heyward, Gordon or Cespedes.

You have to remember we are losing Shark we need talent for depth purposes. We HAVE TO get something of value and he is a valuable defensive OF who may hit or develop power later or may not but he has talent . Everyone around here loves young talent but talks about them like they are finished products already like you citing his flaws . Well guess what, LaRoche has huge flaws, Avi has huge flaws, Shark has a huge flaw in that he won't be on the Sox next year unless they want to pay him a ton of money .

 

The Sox front office has flaws if they cannot rid themselves of their costly mistakes. Hell they couldn't even find it in them to dump Beckham or Bonifacio because they make more than Conor even though Conor was basically the only viable option on the team who could take AB's away from LaRoche but big surprise , flawed management always plays him even against lefties.

Edited July 26, 2015 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Heads22]

Wake me up when we're within 3-4 of a playoff spot.

[Rowand44]

Wake me up when we're within 3-4 of a playoff spot.

But you're awake now.

[Heads22]

But you're awake now.

 

You don't know that.

[Rowand44]

You don't know that.

Robot Heads?

[Texsox]

Wake me up when we're within 3-4 of a playoff spot.

Opening Day 2016?

[he gone.]

The way I look at it let's just call the divisions locked up. Angels, Yankees, Royals. Then its Wild Card.

 

Astros landing Kazmir is huge. That hurts us. Twins are next in line. They just "acquired" Ervin Santana in a way. Their team probably does falter a bit. Still.. we are 6? back of them. That's not that simple. The rest of the teams I'm scared of in order are:

 

Toronto, TB, Detroit.

 

Just don't see us getting it done. Twins and Toronto go on 3-4 game losing streaks? Maybe I'll get excited again.

[Jerksticks]

We have the best pitching by far. I don't think we should sell. Maybe tinker with the lineup though. Gotta grt Laroche outa there or down by Flowers. I'd put Alexei after Abreu amd Avi after him. Laroche is an automatic out right now.

[caulfield12]

We have the best pitching by far. I don't think we should sell. Maybe tinker with the lineup though. Gotta grt Laroche outa there or down by Flowers. I'd put Alexei after Abreu amd Avi after him. Laroche is an automatic out right now.

 

 

Alexei, Abreu and Melky were three of the better Sox players this past weekend.

[caulfield12]

The way I look at it let's just call the divisions locked up. Angels, Yankees, Royals. Then its Wild Card.

 

Astros landing Kazmir is huge. That hurts us. Twins are next in line. They just "acquired" Ervin Santana in a way. Their team probably does falter a bit. Still.. we are 6? back of them. That's not that simple. The rest of the teams I'm scared of in order are:

 

Toronto, TB, Detroit.

 

Just don't see us getting it done. Twins and Toronto go on 3-4 game losing streaks? Maybe I'll get excited again.

 

 

The Twins coming into duress and being wiped out of the AL Central race by the Cueto acquisition and Ventura looking like he's been resuscitated from the dead pretty much forces DET to fight back into it, which is good for Samardzija.

[Jerksticks]

Alexei, Abreu and Melky were three of the better Sox players this past weekend.

Exactly. Bump the hot sticks up in the order. Gotta get Laroche outa there Asap.

 

9Sanch

1Eaton

2Saladini

3Cabrera

4Abreu

5Alexei

That can work

 

[Jerksticks]

If we sweep Boston we'll be 50-50. Look where .500 would put us in the WC race. Juicy.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Jerksticks

[Quin]

If we sweep Boston we'll be 50-50. Look where .500 would put us in the WC race. Juicy.

 

If they sweep Boston, I'm in.