My How Things Have Changed in 4 Days

[Dick Allen]

Brilliant!

 

Except when your talent evaluators pick guys like Matt Davidson and Avisail Garcia, two more guys who were "guaranteed future starting position players" at the time of their acquisition/s. Both will probably be jettisoned out of the organization by the end of 2016.

So you agree with me. Avi Garcia and Matt Davidson are guys the current regime thought were future cornerstones. It would not be in the White Sox best interests to trade Samardzija for something similar. Thank you. Now go back to Kansascity.com.

[caulfield12]

So you agree with me. Avi Garcia and Matt Davidson are guys the current regime thought were future cornerstones. It would not be in the White Sox best interests to trade Samardzija for something similar. Thank you. Now go back to Kansascity.com.

 

 

One could only wish the Chicago papers employed guys like Posnanski and Gregorian.

 

I don't even think more than a handful of posters here could even tell you who the Sox beat writers are for the Sun-Times and Tribune this season.

Edited July 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Even if we sweep Boston, I'm still on the fence as to whether we should trade Samardzija. We need to evaluate Erik Johnson for next season and if Jeff stays we lose that opportunity. But some guys on the offense are coming around.

 

Last 30 days:

 

Melky: 0.9 WAR (30th best in baseball)

Sanchez: 0.5 WAR

Eaton: 0.4 WAR

Soto: 0.4 WAR (please play him more over Flowers)

Alexei: 0.3 WAR

 

However:

 

Flowers: -0.2 WAR

Avi: -0.4 WAR

LaRoche: -1.1 WAR (if we could play him less, that'd be great)

 

I would be happy if we could get rid of bonifacio and bring up EJ to take spot starts to give Danks extra rest. He has performed so well with extra rest there has to be something to it. Gives us a few more starts (5-6) from EJ to see including september.

[Dick Allen]

One could only wish the Chicago papers employed guys like Posnanski and Gregorian.

 

I don't even think more than a handful of posters here could even tell you who the Sox beat writers are for the Sun-Times and Tribune this season.

Who cares?

 

I don't base being a White Sox fan on a beat writer. I really doubt anyone does. Maybe in a cow town like KC.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

You're right, the Sox did fade in 2005. They had a ~15 game lead at the beginning of August and ended up winning by 1 or 2 games.

Sox finished 6 games ahead.

[spiderman]

it is the excitement of a team, this team in winning, that is deceiving our emotions. then when the trade deadline past, the anger will take over.

 

stay the course, make the necessary changes, as hard it is to do, it is the best in the future. if not, then the changes will need to be done via Free Agency.

 

This team isn't winning; it's won 4 in a row, but the big picture (at least through the end of July) says this is a below average team.

[LDF]

This team isn't winning; it's won 4 in a row, but the big picture (at least through the end of July) says this is a below average team.

 

and obviously that is my point. stay the course in make the trade. this winning will be a real thing.

[Buehrlesque]

Again, the other huge factor is what you would get back. No need trading Samardzija for anything less than pretty much guaranteed future White Sox starting position player(s) or useful pitchers, not Charlotte Knights, is what is best for the team. If not, hang on to him, grab the pick.

This is the key. There have been plenty of times before when the Sox have missed good opportunities to "sell" because they felt their underperforming, so-so team could get back in the race at any time. Those were frustrating, because the team's chances of competing were low and they could have restocked/reloaded for a better chance the following year. While their chances of seriously competing this year are very low, the chances any return on a rental of Samardzija being significant are also low. Not as much at stake here, I guess. I would agree that, if a good match doesn't present itself, there's very little point in just trading him for some low level lottery tickets.

[thedoctor]

literal lol at a debate devolving into a squabble over who has the better beat writers.

[bmags]

This is the key. There have been plenty of times before when the Sox have missed good opportunities to "sell" because they felt their underperforming, so-so team could get back in the race at any time. Those were frustrating, because the team's chances of competing were low and they could have restocked/reloaded for a better chance the following year. While their chances of seriously competing this year are very low, the chances any return on a rental of Samardzija being significant are also low. Not as much at stake here, I guess. I would agree that, if a good match doesn't present itself, there's very little point in just trading him for some low level lottery tickets.

 

Agreed at this point.

 

I do believe our drafting has improved recently, I'd like to see how we do with the additional budget from a comp pick.

[Flash Tizzle]

And selling will help that? We are in a complicated spot

No we're not. We were ALL convinced last week this team wasn't going anywhere, Shark (or perhaps Quintana) needed to go, and this organization desparately needed a significant return to help improve this team's future.

 

Now four days have past and we shouldn't be sellers because of the Indians series?! It's so ridiculous and shortsighted that I fear that the FO thinks similarily. They're too cowardly and afraid to admit their vision for a playoff team failed miseralbe. Hahn should be not be waiting until the conclusion of the Boston series, even if the team happens to sweep them. This is NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM. Have people not been aware of this historically terrible offense? Or it's record against contending teams?

 

I hope they do sweep Boston. It'll test how much courage our front office has to do what's right. After they would inevitable cave and keep Shark, we could then all sit back and watch the White Sox finish around 82 wins for the season. After Shark leaves, we'll have the same offense, same front office, but one supplemental round pick!

[shysocks]

No we're not. We were ALL convinced last week this team wasn't going anywhere, Shark (or perhaps Quintana) needed to go, and this organization desparately needed a significant return to help improve this team's future.

 

Now four days have past and we shouldn't be sellers because of the Indians series?! It's so ridiculous and shortsighted that I fear that the FO thinks similarily. They're too cowardly and afraid to admit their vision for a playoff team failed miseralbe. Hahn should be not be waiting until the conclusion of the Boston series, even if the team happens to sweep them. This is NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM. Have people not been aware of this historically terrible offense? Or it's record against contending teams?

 

I hope they do sweep Boston. It'll test how much courage our front office has to do what's right. After they would inevitable cave and keep Shark, we could then all sit back and watch the White Sox finish around 82 wins for the season. After Shark leaves, we'll have the same offense, same front office, but one supplemental round pick!

I would love to watch this team finish with 82 wins. I would be thrilled with that.

[bmags]

I would love to watch this team finish with 82 wins. I would be thrilled with that.

 

I thought the same thing. Going from 63 to 72 to 82 wins looks like decent progress to me.

[southsider2k5]

I thought the same thing. Going from 63 to 72 to 82 wins looks like decent progress to me.

 

Big picture, i think the most common expectation was for this team to be in the 85-88 win range. 82 would be disappointing in that sense, but in the terms of how this season started, and finishing on an upswing, plus not having given away any of our real future pieces, I would be OK with it. Not thrilled, but not ready to light up some torches either.

 

At the very least it means that some of the guys who got off to horrible starts, continued to recover and are viable pieces for 2016.

[ChiSox59]

No we're not. We were ALL convinced last week this team wasn't going anywhere, Shark (or perhaps Quintana) needed to go, and this organization desparately needed a significant return to help improve this team's future.

 

Now four days have past and we shouldn't be sellers because of the Indians series?! It's so ridiculous and shortsighted that I fear that the FO thinks similarily. They're too cowardly and afraid to admit their vision for a playoff team failed miseralbe. Hahn should be not be waiting until the conclusion of the Boston series, even if the team happens to sweep them. This is NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM. Have people not been aware of this historically terrible offense? Or it's record against contending teams?

 

I hope they do sweep Boston. It'll test how much courage our front office has to do what's right. After they would inevitable cave and keep Shark, we could then all sit back and watch the White Sox finish around 82 wins for the season. After Shark leaves, we'll have the same offense, same front office, but one supplemental round pick!

 

The kind of crazy thing is, that if the Sox DO sweep Boston, they'll probably be somewhere between 1-2 games away from being a playoff team if the season ended on Thursday. A big if, no doubt, but it is also sort of difficult to trade one of the best 25 pitchers in baseball at this juncture unless the price is right (that price being a very good offensive return).

 

Bottom line, Shark is very unlikely to bring back anything that is going to help this offense now, or even a couple years. If they find that, sure, move him - but I think he would have been traded by now if that were the case.

 

Also, despite this historically terrible offense you mention, the Sox find themselves in the position described above. What does that tell you? They have a fu**in studly pitching staff. The offense has been coming around, and the Sox have really been throwing some leather in the infield for sometime..I'd honestly be pretty disappointed if the Sox moved Shark unless they got a ton back (unless they drop 2 or three in a row here, then I get it).

 

You play this game to win. The Sox still have a small but surely a chance to win. I may be in the minority here, but one of the reasons why I love this franchise so much - they refuse to just allow themselves to be s***ty. No team ahead of them in the race for the 2nd WC really scares me. Minnesota will fade, I guarantee it. Toronto and Baltimore will be the main competition and those are very flawed teams (as are the Sox).

 

I do think it all comes down to the next few days. Win a few more in a row, and I'd eat my hat if Shark is traded unless it brings back a bat that'll help RIGHT NOW.

[bmags]

Big picture, i think the most common expectation was for this team to be in the 85-88 win range. 82 would be disappointing in that sense, but in the terms of how this season started, and finishing on an upswing, plus not having given away any of our real future pieces, I would be OK with it. Not thrilled, but not ready to light up some torches either.

 

At the very least it means that some of the guys who got off to horrible starts, continued to recover and are viable pieces for 2016.

 

edit: deleted everything I wrote.

 

I agree. But having endured the beginning of this season, I feel like 81-81 or better means that:

-Saladino stayed good

-Sanchez may have finished with .240 or better average

- Melky stayed good

-Pitching stayed good

 

That would make me pretty optimistic for next year, as opposed to a 73-something finish.

Edited July 27, 2015 by bmags

[OmarComing25]

The kind of crazy thing is, that if the Sox DO sweep Boston, they'll probably be somewhere between 1-2 games away from being a playoff team if the season ended on Thursday. A big if, no doubt, but it is also sort of difficult to trade one of the best 25 pitchers in baseball at this juncture unless the price is right (that price being a very good offensive return).

 

Bottom line, Shark is very unlikely to bring back anything that is going to help this offense now, or even a couple years. If they find that, sure, move him - but I think he would have been traded by now if that were the case.

 

Also, despite this historically terrible offense you mention, the Sox find themselves in the position described above. What does that tell you? They have a fu**in studly pitching staff. The offense has been coming around, and the Sox have really been throwing some leather in the infield for sometime..I'd honestly be pretty disappointed if the Sox moved Shark unless they got a ton back (unless they drop 2 or three in a row here, then I get it).

 

You play this game to win. The Sox still have a small but surely a chance to win. I may be in the minority here, but one of the reasons why I love this franchise so much - they refuse to just allow themselves to be s***ty. No team ahead of them in the race for the 2nd WC really scares me. Minnesota will fade, I guarantee it. Toronto and Baltimore will be the main competition and those are very flawed teams (as are the Sox).

 

I do think it all comes down to the next few days. Win a few more in a row, and I'd eat my hat if Shark is traded unless it brings back a bat that'll help RIGHT NOW.

Exactly, if we take 3 or 4 from Boston we're right there for a playoff spot, LF/SS/3B/2B/CF are hitting a lot better lately (C too if Soto actually plays), our infield defense is now above average, and we have by far the best pitching staff of any of the teams we'd be competing with for the 2nd wildcard spot.

 

Also, count me in as one who would be happy with 82 wins as well. That gives us a lot of hope that we could contend next year with additional progress from some young guys and a couple savvy moves. If we tank and lose 90 games then there's no hope for 2016/2017.

[caulfield12]

The kind of crazy thing is, that if the Sox DO sweep Boston, they'll probably be somewhere between 1-2 games away from being a playoff team if the season ended on Thursday. A big if, no doubt, but it is also sort of difficult to trade one of the best 25 pitchers in baseball at this juncture unless the price is right (that price being a very good offensive return).

 

Bottom line, Shark is very unlikely to bring back anything that is going to help this offense now, or even a couple years. If they find that, sure, move him - but I think he would have been traded by now if that were the case.

 

Also, despite this historically terrible offense you mention, the Sox find themselves in the position described above. What does that tell you? They have a fu**in studly pitching staff. The offense has been coming around, and the Sox have really been throwing some leather in the infield for sometime..I'd honestly be pretty disappointed if the Sox moved Shark unless they got a ton back (unless they drop 2 or three in a row here, then I get it).

 

You play this game to win. The Sox still have a small but surely a chance to win. I may be in the minority here, but one of the reasons why I love this franchise so much - they refuse to just allow themselves to be s***ty. No team ahead of them in the race for the 2nd WC really scares me. Minnesota will fade, I guarantee it. Toronto and Baltimore will be the main competition and those are very flawed teams (as are the Sox).

 

I do think it all comes down to the next few days. Win a few more in a row, and I'd eat my hat if Shark is traded unless it brings back a bat that'll help RIGHT NOW.

 

That's the KW gunslinger mentality. Where has it gotten us, exactly?

 

There's this myth that the White Sox could simply wait around and make deadline deals every year, save some money the first half of the season and keep repeating that process.

 

It worked, sort of, until the end of 2012. Pretty much every other season since 2005 were competitive, but more often than not missing out on the playoffs.

 

But what I bolded...they haven't refused to be SH----. They've kept guys like Dunn and Danks and now LaRoche on the roster and were unable to do anything to fix those mistakes, by and large. We just had to "ride it out" and wait for a brighter day.

 

[caulfield12]

Exactly, if we take 3 or 4 from Boston we're right there for a playoff spot, LF/SS/3B/2B/CF are hitting a lot better lately (C too if Soto actually plays), our infield defense is now above average, and we have by far the best pitching staff of any of the teams we'd be competing with for the 2nd wildcard spot.

 

Also, count me in as one who would be happy with 82 wins as well. That gives us a lot of hope that we could contend next year with additional progress from some young guys and a couple savvy moves. If we tank and lose 90 games then there's no hope for 2016/2017.

 

Why, it just means that Erik Johnson probably failed?

 

What does that have to do with Montas and Fulmer?

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'd like to see rest of the way:

Finish with at least 81 wins

Carlos Sanchez lockdown 2B and Saladino 3B

Move Shark and EJ show he can be a 4 or 5.

Sale win CY Young

This offense get going and finish strong

[spiderman]

I'd like to see rest of the way:

Finish with at least 81 wins

Carlos Sanchez lockdown 2B and Saladino 3B

Move Shark and EJ show he can be a 4 or 5.

Sale win CY Young

This offense get going and finish strong

 

Anyone catch Steve Stone over the weekend say that Saladino, he believes, will be the long-term SS?

 

What would that mean for Anderson?

[cabiness42]

I would like to see Danks and Ramirez moved and the rest of the team kept in tact.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Anyone catch Steve Stone over the weekend say that Saladino, he believes, will be the long-term SS?

 

What would that mean for Anderson?

 

I like him at third honestly. I heard that also. But to me, it all depends on how this shakes up.

[hogan873]

Regardless of the caliber of teams the Sox have played recently, they have been much more fun to watch. The sweep of Cleveland was great. It featured outstanding pitching and good offense. Last night's game featured something we haven't seen much from the Sox this year: Battling back. A few weeks ago, the Sox lose that game after giving up a four run lead.

 

It's frustrating to realize that if the Sox had only played marginally better baseball during April, May, and June, they would be right in the thick of things. It may be too little too late now, but to sell might be a mistake. I suppose I could see one pitcher being traded and one bat being added. If the Sox keep winning until Friday, I see them either standing pat or making a relatively minor move to add a bat.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

edit: deleted everything I wrote.

 

I agree. But having endured the beginning of this season, I feel like 81-81 or better means that:

-Saladino stayed good

-Sanchez may have finished with .240 or better average

- Melky stayed good

-Pitching stayed good

 

That would make me pretty optimistic for next year, as opposed to a 73-something finish.

 

 

81 wins would be an 8 game improvement. I'd take that.