Would being patient and standing pat make sense?

[Thomas_Ventura_Roberts]

Would it hurt the Sox to stand pat and not make any trades before July 31st? Teams are not necessarily going to give us the building blocks that we would want. If that should happen, why not stand pat? We have some good young pitchers and position players either on the major league team or not too far away in the minors. By standing pat, we could build up some depth of talent. Trading Samardzija or a relief pitcher would make sense if we got something in return, but we could always trade excess relief pitchers in the off-season, and we would be in a better position to re-sign Samardzija or at least get a compensation pick if we kept him. Another consideration, I get the feeling that we have 2 young second baseman who can be very good major league players. By the end of the season, we would have a better idea of who we might want to trade away out of the two. One of those two could be packaged with pitching to get an interesting young hitter.

 

If we keep Samardzija either to the end of this season or beyond, we would not have to bring up young starting pitchers such as Eric Johnson or Francelis Montas as soon this year or Carson Fulmer next year. It would give Rodon more time to develop in the comfort of the #4 spot in the rotation too. Of course, if a team does give us the prospects we would desire for Samardzija, then it would be interesting to see what Johnson or Montas could do.

 

[Dick Allen]

Would it hurt the Sox to stand pat and not make any trades before July 31st? Teams are not necessarily going to give us the building blocks that we would want. If that should happen, why not stand pat? We have some good young pitchers and position players either on the major league team or not too far away in the minors. By standing pat, we could build up some depth of talent. Trading Samardzija or a relief pitcher would make sense if we got something in return, but we could always trade excess relief pitchers in the off-season, and we would be in a better position to re-sign Samardzija or at least get a compensation pick if we kept him. Another consideration, I get the feeling that we have 2 young second baseman who can be very good major league players. By the end of the season, we would have a better idea of who we might want to trade away out of the two. One of those two could be packaged with pitching to get an interesting young hitter.

 

If we keep Samardzija either to the end of this season or beyond, we would not have to bring up young starting pitchers such as Eric Johnson or Francelis Montas as soon this year or Carson Fulmer next year. It would give Rodon more time to develop in the comfort of the #4 spot in the rotation too. Of course, if a team does give us the prospects we would desire for Samardzija, then it would be interesting to see what Johnson or Montas could do.

As you said, it is all about the return. If you acquire a guy like Matt Davidson who will crap out in AAA, while it will appeal to some, it accomplishes nothing. Jon Adkins wasn't a good return for Ray Durham. I don't understand why some want to move guys like Patricka and Putnam now. It isn't like Nate Jones is showing the 8th inning is his, and the return for those guys who aren't making squat probably isn't going to be huge, and I doubt a contender would give up a hitter in their line up for one of them.

 

There is no doubt in my mind if this current defense was in place all season, this team would have at least 2 or 3 more wins even with just about every player underperforming offensively. That would have made things really interesting.

 

I think the one thing this series did is show teams the Sox don't have to trade him. I think they will, but it does IMO give them a little leverage.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

As you said, it is all about the return. If you acquire a guy like Matt Davidson who will crap out in AAA, while it will appeal to some, it accomplishes nothing. Jon Adkins wasn't a good return for Ray Durham. I don't understand why some want to move guys like Patricka and Putnam now. It isn't like Nate Jones is showing the 8th inning is his, and the return for those guys who aren't making squat probably isn't going to be huge, and I doubt a contender would give up a hitter in their line up for one of them.

 

There is no doubt in my mind if this current defense was in place all season, this team would have at least 2 or 3 more wins even with just about every player underperforming offensively. That would have made things really interesting.

 

I think the one thing this series did is show teams the Sox don't have to trade him. I think they will, but it does IMO give them a little leverage.

 

If only a GM had the ability to see into the future. Until then, this is all meaningless. You make the deal in the time frame that it was made in.

[Balta1701]

You either have to make this team better or you have to trade Samardzija. Pick one. They're not winning if you don't make them better, and if you don't think you can make them good enough then a draft pick is such a weak compensation after all we gave up to get that pitcher.

 

You want to give me a million dollar + salary as a GM I'll risk it on making that decision. You can fire me if I'm wrong and I promise to take the retirement plan and not be that mad.

[Rowand44]

after all we gave up to get that pitcher.

Not much?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Ya can't be in between. Buy or sell. If you sell, move Shark and try and get an impact bat somehow. I absolutely would t move pen arms because we need them if this is a 3 year window.

[Balta1701]

Not much?

Have you looked at the fWAR numbers for the guys we traded away? Samardzija 2.5, Phegley + Bassitt + Semien 2.4, and salary isn't exactly even. Ravelo back to health and hitting again but still in the minors and a ways away.

 

I'd take that back for him happily.

[Jose Abreu]

Have you looked at the fWAR numbers for the guys we traded away? Samardzija 2.5, Phegley + Bassitt + Semien 2.4, and salary isn't exactly even. Ravelo back to health and hitting again but still in the minors and a ways away.

 

I'd take that back for him happily.

I'm honestly surprised that those 3 players combine for a 2.4 fWAR. I'd assume that Semien's defense alone makes him a negative WAR player.

[ChiSox59]

I'm honestly surprised that those 3 players combine for a 2.4 fWAR. I'd assume that Semien's defense alone makes him a negative WAR player.

 

His WAR has dropped like a rock since his early start. Semien wouldn't have anywhere to play on the Sox. His D at 3B would be terrible. The Sox didn't give up anything they're going to regret in a big way.

[Jake]

There's something weird going on with Semien's defense this year, but I have no reason to believe he'd bad at 3B or 2B. He's definitely in one hell of a slump right now, though. We'll see where he is at the end of the year.

[shysocks]

Have you looked at the fWAR numbers for the guys we traded away? Samardzija 2.5, Phegley + Bassitt + Semien 2.4, and salary isn't exactly even. Ravelo back to health and hitting again but still in the minors and a ways away.

 

I'd take that back for him happily.

My god man, your Everything Sucks routine is exhausting. Nothing about that package has changed since the beginning of the year. Most of the 2.4 comes from that stiff Phegley, and don't bother arguing he isn't a stiff as a result of 100 nice AB's because I refuse to take that notion seriously. Semien is still probably a nice infielder and remains a legitimately tough guy to lose. Bassitt is still just a Guy with a capital G. Ravelo I like, but he's about an average MLBer at best. Add it all up and it's hardly something to throw around the phrase "after all we gave up" to describe.

[ChiSox59]

My god man, your Everything Sucks routine is exhausting. Nothing about that package has changed since the beginning of the year. Most of the 2.4 comes from that stiff Phegley, and don't bother arguing he isn't a stiff as a result of 100 nice AB's because I refuse to take that notion seriously. Semien is still probably a nice infielder and remains a legitimately tough guy to lose. Bassitt is still just a Guy with a capital G. Ravelo I like, but he's about an average MLBer at best. Add it all up and it's hardly something to throw around the phrase "after all we gave up" to describe.

 

Yep. Glad someone else agrees.

 

 

 

 

[ChiSox59]

There's something weird going on with Semien's defense this year, but I have no reason to believe he'd bad at 3B or 2B. He's definitely in one hell of a slump right now, though. We'll see where he is at the end of the year.

 

?? He was pretty bad at 3B when he played there last year. 10 errors in less than 100 chances. SSS, but the guy just isn't a good infielder.

[Real]

Would it hurt the Sox to stand pat and not make any trades before July 31st? Teams are not necessarily going to give us the building blocks that we would want. If that should happen, why not stand pat? We have some good young pitchers and position players either on the major league team or not too far away in the minors. By standing pat, we could build up some depth of talent. Trading Samardzija or a relief pitcher would make sense if we got something in return, but we could always trade excess relief pitchers in the off-season, and we would be in a better position to re-sign Samardzija or at least get a compensation pick if we kept him. Another consideration, I get the feeling that we have 2 young second baseman who can be very good major league players. By the end of the season, we would have a better idea of who we might want to trade away out of the two. One of those two could be packaged with pitching to get an interesting young hitter.

 

If we keep Samardzija either to the end of this season or beyond, we would not have to bring up young starting pitchers such as Eric Johnson or Francelis Montas as soon this year or Carson Fulmer next year. It would give Rodon more time to develop in the comfort of the #4 spot in the rotation too. Of course, if a team does give us the prospects we would desire for Samardzija, then it would be interesting to see what Johnson or Montas could do.

 

[Dick Allen]

I liked Bassitt as a reliever the Sox have that position covered, but Phegley? Soto is putting up a 1.0 WAR where he would be playing making about the same. Ravelo is a 1B/DH with no power in AA. Semien has 28 errors after being brutal at 3B last year for the White Sox, with a WAR in freefall the past couple of months.

 

No need to whine about the trade. Uncle Jer isn't going broke anytime soon.

[southsider2k5]

My god man, your Everything Sucks routine is exhausting. Nothing about that package has changed since the beginning of the year. Most of the 2.4 comes from that stiff Phegley, and don't bother arguing he isn't a stiff as a result of 100 nice AB's because I refuse to take that notion seriously. Semien is still probably a nice infielder and remains a legitimately tough guy to lose. Bassitt is still just a Guy with a capital G. Ravelo I like, but he's about an average MLBer at best. Add it all up and it's hardly something to throw around the phrase "after all we gave up" to describe.

 

One thing I hate about the WAR stat is the idea that one guy who has a 3.0 WAR is somehow equal to 3 guys who have 1.0 WARs. Needing 3 different guys to make up what one guy is doing, puts the one team at an advantage because they are only needing one guy to get those numbers, allowing gains from the other players that aren't being accounted for.

[Balta1701]

One thing I hate about the WAR stat is the idea that one guy who has a 3.0 WAR is somehow equal to 3 guys who have 1.0 WARs. Needing 3 different guys to make up what one guy is doing, puts the one team at an advantage because they are only needing one guy to get those numbers, allowing gains from the other players that aren't being accounted for.

However...if your team is being held down by having multiple guys who are below average players and you have little depth to replace them, plugging 3 guys worth 1 WAR into your lineup would make your team better than 1 guy with a 3 WAR. And if you were able to take the extra $9 million you spent and find another tolerable player...well now all of a sudden the "multiple tolerable players" is a huge upgrade.

[southsider2k5]

However...if your team is being held down by having multiple guys who are below average players and you have little depth to replace them, plugging 3 guys worth 1 WAR into your lineup would make your team better than 1 guy with a 3 WAR. And if you were able to take the extra $9 million you spent and find another tolerable player...well now all of a sudden the "multiple tolerable players" is a huge upgrade.

 

Except in our case, it wouldn't have really worked.

 

If we kept Phegley, we lose Soto, one of our top WAR players. That alone means we didn't gain anything. Samardjiza + Soto is more than the sum of the Samardjiza trade parts. At that point, we already lost, even if you subscribe to that sort of math.

 

 

 

[cabiness42]

I don't think the return for any of the big names is going to be worth moving them. Now, I'd give up Danks or Ramirez for almost nothing if the buyers are taking on the salary.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I don't think the return for any of the big names is going to be worth moving them. Now, I'd give up Danks or Ramirez for almost nothing if the buyers are taking on the salary.

 

No one is taking on John Danks salary. Ever.

[cabiness42]

No one is taking on John Danks salary. Ever.

 

Even if they took 1/3 to 1/2 of his salary I'd give him up for a C level relief prospect.

[Jake]

One thing I hate about the WAR stat is the idea that one guy who has a 3.0 WAR is somehow equal to 3 guys who have 1.0 WARs. Needing 3 different guys to make up what one guy is doing, puts the one team at an advantage because they are only needing one guy to get those numbers, allowing gains from the other players that aren't being accounted for.

 

For the record, that isn't necessarily what the stat is designed to do. More WAR at one position is typically better, since you could have a 3 WAR player and three 1/3 WAR players and be ahead of a team with four players combining for 4 WAR. The main exception to this is if you can't come up with replacement level players -- you could make some argument in that vein about the Samardzija deal since our 2B position in particular has been so rotten this season

[southsider2k5]

Even if they took 1/3 to 1/2 of his salary I'd give him up for a C level relief prospect.

 

Maybe if you took on 3/4 of the salary, or more.

[Chisoxfn]

I think standing pat would be the worst course of action. I moves to buy, as long as they are long-term buys to fill holes necessary to give a better run at things in 2016 & 2017. I also support selling, if again, it puts us in a better position to contend (either giving us some new parts we can flip or parts we think are part of that core window that fill holes we can't fill from within). I've long been a proponent of buying & selling for this club.