Balta1701 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) Ok, I'm part of the whole optimist/don't sell yet movement, but calling those 3 "3 of the best pitchers in baseball" is just silly. I clearly am the pessimist right now and those were some seriously impressive arms we just beat, including last year's cy young winner. Yes, great arms can have bad days, great rotations can have bad weeks, Kluber has not been anywhere near what he was last year, but the Indians still have one of the top 5 starting rotations in the AL by WAR which is the same thing we were talking about the White Sox leading the league in last week. Beating up on those guys deserves some credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 01:54 PM) I clearly am the pessimist right now and those were some seriously impressive arms we just beat, including last year's cy young winner. Yes, great arms can have bad days, great rotations can have bad weeks, Kluber has not been anywhere near what he was last year, but the Indians still have one of the top 5 starting rotations in the AL by WAR which is the same thing we were talking about the White Sox leading the league in last week. Beating up on those guys deserves some credit. I agree, but Kluber is the only one of those three who can be considered one of baseball's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:55 PM) I agree, but Kluber is the only one of those three who can be considered one of baseball's best. Think of it like a team beating Rodon for the other guys. He's more likely than the other guys on our staff to have a bad day, but you're certainly pretty happy if you get past him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) I agree, but Kluber is the only one of those three who can be considered one of baseball's best. Carrasco is 21st in WAR among pitchers this year, ahead of guys like Hamels, Bumgarner, Liriano, Felix, Miller and Kazmir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) Carrasco is 21st in WAR among pitchers this year, ahead of guys like Hamels, Bumgarner, Liriano, Felix, Miller and Kazmir. To me, the phrase "one of baseball's best" means top-ten. That being said, Carrasco doesn't miss by much, but I'm still reluctant to call him that. WAR isn't the only stat I'd use to judge this, though. I'd obviously take Felix, Bumgarner, and Hamels over Carrasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) To me, the phrase "one of baseball's best" means top-ten. That being said, Carrasco doesn't miss by much, but I'm still reluctant to call him that. WAR isn't the only stat I'd use to judge this, though. I'd obviously take Felix, Bumgarner, and Hamels over Carrasco. Regardless, Cleveland's rotation is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I think there is a lot of nitpicking for nitpicking sake. I obviously didn't mean that the 3 Cleveland starters were the #1/2/3 best starters in baseball. The point is the Sox beat up 3 really good starting pitchers, including the defending Cy Young award winner, over three straight days. The people pretending that we should have done that are missing the fact that no in else in baseball has really been able to do that this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Since we're throwing bats out there. I've seen the Orioles were thinking of possibly moving Chris Davis. Would you be interested in him? He's a FA after the year. Not sure what it'd take. We get him then trying to move LaRoche (unlikely I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 08:40 AM) Anyone thinking the Sox best plan of action this week could be to buy AND sell? Samardzija has pitched really well over his last 8 to 9 starts, but his K/9 is currently sitting 6.93 (by far the worst of his career). While trading Samardzija now and replacing him with EJ might hurt the team in the immediate future, maybe the Sox could take a seriously look at adding value elsewhere to offset the lose and build more for the "3 year window". I know everyone is hesitant to add NL players, but I would absolutely love to see the Sox add Carlos Gomez. Add his bat along with his defense to this team and all of the sudden, this team looks a lot more dangerous. This isn't a move I expect this front office to explore, but it's one I would seriously consider. If you could put together a package that didnt include Anderson, I say you do it. We all keep hearing about this 3-year window. I have a feeling that Kenny and Rick have given themselves a 3 year goal to fill the minor leagues with players that they can groom into the next generation of Whiite Sox regulars. We are starting to see that with the battles at second base: Carlos Sanchez with the big club, Micah Johnson at AAA Charlotte, Joey Dimichele at AA Birmingham, Jake Peter at High-A Winston-Salem, etc. I think they want to build a system in which every slot is filled by a prospect that will eventually feed the White Sox big league club. Outside of Tim Anderson, the system is weak on shortstop (although I like what I see from Tyler Saladino). 3B is improving: AAA Davidson, AA Nick Delmonico, A Trey Michalczewski. Catching is still abysmal. The outfield is spotty, and so is 1B. But it looks like they have a plan in place for really developing a pipeline for prospects to contribute to the major league roster. A shrewd Samardzija trade could help both for the big league club of the here and now and for the feeder system of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I want to put something out there, because it seems it isn't as common of knowledge as I thought, but as long as Kenny Williams has been the White Sox GM, and until today, the White Sox have always had a 3 year plan. This isn't a new concept. There have always been stories about writers trying to figure out who is on Kenny's vaunted 3 year board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) I want to put something out there, because it seems it isn't as common of knowledge as I thought, but as long as Kenny Williams has been the White Sox GM, and until today, the White Sox have always had a 3 year plan. This isn't a new concept. There have always been stories about writers trying to figure out who is on Kenny's vaunted 3 year board. What is this 3 year plan that Williams mentioned? That's the first time I heard it mentioned. Was Year 1 an aggressive free agent strike then? Any idea what that would mean for this off-season? It sure seems like then went for it this year, and it hasn't worked out (yet). How does resigning Samardzjia (or finding a replacement of similar quality) factor in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) Regardless, Cleveland's rotation is very good. Yes, it is. That I agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) What is this 3 year plan that Williams mentioned? That's the first time I heard it mentioned. Was Year 1 an aggressive free agent strike then? Any idea what that would mean for this off-season? It sure seems like then went for it this year, and it hasn't worked out (yet). How does resigning Samardzjia (or finding a replacement of similar quality) factor in? If anything, this would be year 3 of the plan. Year 1 (2013) we flat out sucked, year 2 we got Abreu, Eaton, etc., and year 3 we went for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) What is this 3 year plan that Williams mentioned? That's the first time I heard it mentioned. Was Year 1 an aggressive free agent strike then? Any idea what that would mean for this off-season? It sure seems like then went for it this year, and it hasn't worked out (yet). How does resigning Samardzjia (or finding a replacement of similar quality) factor in? They never have detailed it for the media or general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) Since we're throwing bats out there. I've seen the Orioles were thinking of possibly moving Chris Davis. Would you be interested in him? He's a FA after the year. Not sure what it'd take. We get him then trying to move LaRoche (unlikely I know). I'm sure he'd love to come here. I know he doesn't play us again, but he'd have a couple more home runs if he never played us this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) They never have detailed it for the media or general public. Hasn't Williams implied that we're in Year 1 of this plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) Hasn't Williams implied that we're in Year 1 of this plan? I think the point of the board is it is always year 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) Hasn't Williams implied that we're in Year 1 of this plan? This year, yes. I also believe that the idea we were in a three year plan that centered around rebuilding starting in 2013 is accurate, but we re-evaluated and started a new plan in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) I think the point of the board is it is always year 1. This is how I always understood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 01:48 PM) I want to put something out there, because it seems it isn't as common of knowledge as I thought, but as long as Kenny Williams has been the White Sox GM, and until today, the White Sox have always had a 3 year plan. This isn't a new concept. There have always been stories about writers trying to figure out who is on Kenny's vaunted 3 year board. I can't believe how many people get duped by this "3 year plan" nonsense. It's nothing more than a gimmick to get you to take your eye off the problems of today and think about some promised land that is close, but not too close, in the future. Did Williams or Hahn even once refer to 2015 as Year 1 of this 3 Year Plan we're now hearing about at Soxfest? Was there any mention of Year 1 in spring training? Or did it just conveniently come up last month in front of reporters as a way to divert attention away from the club's poor performance this season? It's like visions of Year 3 is some feel good drug to make us all go away and feel really good about some magical point in the future while at the same time, forgetting about the teams's real issues today. I wonder if execs from teams like the St. Louis Cardinals and S.F. Giants constantly talk about 3 year plans the way our so-called brain trust does. Edited July 28, 2015 by Thad Bosley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 07:29 PM) I can't believe how many people get duped by this "3 year plan" nonsense. It's nothing more than a gimmick to get you to take your eye off the problems of today and think about some promised land that is close, but not too close, in the future. Did Williams or Hahn even once refer to 2015 as Year 1 of this 3 Year Plan we're now hearing about at Soxfest? Was there any mention of Year 1 in spring training? Or did it just conveniently come up last month in front of reporters as a way to divert attention away from the club's poor performance this season? It's like visions of Year 3 is some feel good drug to make us all go away and feel really good about some magical point in the future while at the same time, forgetting about the teams's real issues today. I wonder if execs from teams like the St. Louis Cardinals and S.F. Giants constantly talk about 3 year plans the way our so-called brain trust does. The Sox don't "constantly" talk about the 3 year plan. Fans who don't understand the concept do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 07:13 PM) The Sox don't "constantly" talk about the 3 year plan. Fans who don't understand the concept do. That's what I just said. They didn't talk about it over the winter, they didn't talk about it in spring training, but all of a sudden when we find ourselves in last place in June - POOF! There is this "3 Year Plan". Absolute, total gimmick. Fans who don't understand what's going on here fall for this cheap stunt. Edited July 28, 2015 by Thad Bosley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I always understood the three year plan as us always planning out three years from the current year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 07:45 PM) I always understood the three year plan as us always planning out three years from the current year. Tactically, yes. All teams have some sort of forecasting mechanism they use to help guide their decision making process. Williams, on the other hand, used reference to this plan last month as a way to publicly placate the fans over this year's performance, to divert their attention from what's not happening this year to what could happen in Year 3, that magical Year 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 27, 2015 -> 08:44 PM) That's what I just said. They didn't talk about it over the winter, they didn't talk about it in spring training, but all of a sudden when we find ourselves in last place in June - POOF! There is this "3 Year Plan". Absolute, total gimmick. Fans who don't understand what's going on here fall for this cheap stunt. They have been making these plans for over a decade. It didn't just show up this summer. Again, that shows you don't understand what is going on, nor the history behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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