caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) Oh, the TV ratings. They gave up 5 arms in 2 KW moves, Finnegan, a guy you said was one of the greatest prospects in the game, and a top 60 prospect for rentals. History has shown deadline acquistions rarely determine the WS outcome, so trading 5 prospects and burning out your bullpen isn't a recipe for sustained success. If the Royals can't re-sign Gordon, they won't be able to get Cueto or Zobrist. This is their shot. If they blow it, it will be back to the drawing board. They don't want Zobrist for next year, they need him for these 2 1/2 months. Simple. Back to the drawing board? If you're living under a rock, they've added guys like Madson, Hochevar (back from injury) and Medlen to take some of the pressure off that bullpen. They're unlikely to sign Cueto or Price, but then I never thought Glass would okay spending $55 million on Gil Meche a decade ago or bringing in Jose Guillen, either. You can guarantee they will bring in SOMEONE for their starting rotation before next season. The irony is that we're talking about all these moves not paying off and "blowing up" if they don't win the World Series. This is the Royals, remember? Two or three seasons ago they were a laughingstock..."we keep hearing about all these young prospects, blah blah...they screwed up the franchise by trading Wil Myers, etc." I'm sure if I went back to the thread on the day Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery were traded for Davis and Shields, it will be filled with those critical of the move and saying the Royals were nuts. And Odorizzi and Montgomery (with Seattle) was a big price to pay, but Myers has never come close to being the cornerstone player he was projected to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) They don't want Zobrist for next year, they need him for these 2 1/2 months. Simple. Back to the drawing board? If you're living under a rock, they've added guys like Madson, Hochevar (back from injury) and Medlen to take some of the pressure off that bullpen. They're unlikely to sign Cueto or Price, but then I never thought Glass would okay spending $55 million on Gil Meche a decade ago or bringing in Jose Guillen, either. You can guarantee they will bring in SOMEONE for their starting rotation before next season. The irony is that we're talking about all these moves not paying off and "blowing up" if they don't win the World Series. This is the Royals, remember? Two or three seasons ago they were a laughingstock..."we keep hearing about all these young prospects, blah blah...they screwed up the franchise by trading Wil Myers, etc." I'm sure if I went back to the thread on the day Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery were traded for Davis and Shields, it will be filled with those critical of the move and saying the Royals were nuts. And Odorizzi and Montgomery (with Seattle) was a big price to pay, but Myers has never come close to being the cornerstone player he was projected to be. How's Medlin doing Royals boy? Hochevar isn't doing squat. That bullpen has been burning at both ends and it will catch up. And just wait until it is time to pay those guys. Better win now Royals. It's going to be a very short ride. On the bright side, when they get back to their losing ways, you will have the greatest beat writers in baseball to feed you BS you can eat up. Edited July 28, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) Oh, the TV ratings. They gave up 5 arms in 2 KW moves, Finnegan, a guy you said was one of the greatest prospects in the game, and a top 60 prospect for rentals. History has shown deadline acquistions rarely determine the WS outcome, so trading 5 prospects and burning out your bullpen isn't a recipe for sustained success. If the Royals can't re-sign Gordon, they won't be able to get Cueto or Zobrist. This is their shot. If they blow it, it will be back to the drawing board. Apparently the Reds agree. Who has come up the same season he was drafted, (pitched in the College World Series in the case of Finnegan) and then the MLB World Series? Cincy was convinced he had a future as a starter, that's all that matters, in the end. And they liked Reed a lot. With Lamb, anyone who's had TJ surgery once is a risk, but he was a huge prospect at one time, like Drabeck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) They don't want Zobrist for next year, they need him for these 2 1/2 months. Simple. Back to the drawing board? If you're living under a rock, they've added guys like Madson, Hochevar (back from injury) and Medlen to take some of the pressure off that bullpen. They're unlikely to sign Cueto or Price, but then I never thought Glass would okay spending $55 million on Gil Meche a decade ago or bringing in Jose Guillen, either. You can guarantee they will bring in SOMEONE for their starting rotation before next season. The irony is that we're talking about all these moves not paying off and "blowing up" if they don't win the World Series. This is the Royals, remember? Two or three seasons ago they were a laughingstock..."we keep hearing about all these young prospects, blah blah...they screwed up the franchise by trading Wil Myers, etc." I'm sure if I went back to the thread on the day Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery were traded for Davis and Shields, it will be filled with those critical of the move and saying the Royals were nuts. And Odorizzi and Montgomery (with Seattle) was a big price to pay, but Myers has never come close to being the cornerstone player he was projected to be. Shields helped the Royals turn the corner and Davis is a nearly unhittable bullpen piece, but I bet Dayton still regrets that trade a bit. A top rotation pitcher and a middle/back end type, plus a legit corner OF all at the league minimum. They probably wouldn't have had to made the trades they've made this past 3 days if it wasn't for that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) How's Medlin doing Royals boy? Hochevar isn't doing squat. That bullpen has been burning at both ends and it will catch up. And just wait until it is time to pay those guys. Better win now Royals. It's going to be a very short ride. On the bright side, when they get back to their losing ways, you will have the greatest beat writers in baseball to feed you BS you can eat up. The Royals have two more seasons after this, just like the Tigers had their four. The Twins are shaping up to be the team to beat in future years, but KC will be the favorites heading into next season. They're a couple of pitchers (starter/reliever) away from being really dangerous. The Indians still have the best overall (future) rotation, although the White Sox will challenge that if Fulmer/Montas emerge as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) Apparently the Reds agree. Who has come up the same season he was drafted, (pitched in the College World Series in the case of Finnegan) and then the MLB World Series? Cincy was convinced he had a future as a starter, that's all that matters, in the end. And they liked Reed a lot. With Lamb, anyone who's had TJ surgery once is a risk, but he was a huge prospect at one time, like Drabeck. What matters is your scouting report said Finnegan and Duffy were the future. One of them is gone. One of them has been injured and struggled. And their starters have been pretty bad anyways. Burning out the bullpen. Simple regression. Having to pay players. The future is not so bright in KC. The cow town won't attract free agents unless they overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Shields helped the Royals turn the corner and Davis is a nearly unhittable bullpen piece, but I bet Dayton still regrets that trade a bit. A top rotation pitcher and a middle/back end type, plus a legit corner OF all at the league minimum. They probably wouldn't have had to made the trades they've made this past 3 days if it wasn't for that trade. They made it to game 7 of the World Series as a direct result of the trade. Dayton should have zero regrets for it. (Despite how silly it looked at the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) Shields helped the Royals turn the corner and Davis is a nearly unhittable bullpen piece, but I bet Dayton still regrets that trade a bit. A top rotation pitcher and a middle/back end type, plus a legit corner OF all at the league minimum. They probably wouldn't have had to made the trades they've made this past 3 days if it wasn't for that trade. Except there's no way in hell they would have gotten to the post-season or World Series with W.Myers and Odorizzi producing what they did in 2014. The acquisition of Shields changed the mindset of the entire pitching staff. Dayton Moore when he's 80 will never admit to anything but relief that it worked out, because his job was 100% on the line if they didn't reach the playoffs last year, not unlike AA in Toronto this season with the desperation Tulo move that's ten times worse IMO in terms of the long-term consequences for the Blue Jays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) They made it to game 7 of the World Series as a direct result of the trade. Dayton should have zero regrets for it. (Despite how silly it looked at the time) I agree. They'd be set up for the long term much better, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) What matters is your scouting report said Finnegan and Duffy were the future. One of them is gone. One of them has been injured and struggled. And their starters have been pretty bad anyways. Burning out the bullpen. Simple regression. Having to pay players. The future is not so bright in KC. The cow town won't attract free agents unless they overpay. LOL, like they did with Volquez, Rios, Morales, Blanton, Chris Young and Medlen? (It seems in retrospect like the White Sox were the ones who overpaid their free agents.) I doubt you've even been to Kansas City, lol. It's almost like you have a personal animus towards the city. I could understand if it was Detroit or Omaha or Des Moines or some random midwestern city, but what happened to you there? Weren't you predicting last year that this was the last anyone would ever hear from the Royals, that they were one-hit wonders and the product of luck (mentioning the Wild Card comeback about 1000 times)? Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) What matters is your scouting report said Finnegan and Duffy were the future. One of them is gone. One of them has been injured and struggled. And their starters have been pretty bad anyways. Burning out the bullpen. Simple regression. Having to pay players. The future is not so bright in KC. The cow town won't attract free agents unless they overpay. Yes its going to make their window a lot shorter. The Tigers had a nice run but nobody will remember because they never actually won the title. And IMO its worse for the Royals because their lifeblood is the development of these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 03:40 PM) Yes its going to make their window a lot shorter. The Tigers had a nice run but nobody will remember because they never actually won the title. And IMO its worse for the Royals because their lifeblood is the development of these players. If you viewed Alex Gordon as a key part of their window...there was a solid risk of their window closing after this year anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 07:32 PM) The cow town won't attract free agents unless they overpay. It's all cyclical. George Brett still lives in this cowtown. KC actually is nice. It's way better than Oklahoma City and OKC has an NBA team. Royals mania is out of nowhere and sickening though. It used to be there'd be about 10,000 for a game on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Now they sell out every game. Frontrunning fans are into this team. I haven't gone to a Royals game when they haven't played the Sox in a long time. I hate them but it is a nice city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago Source: #Royals getting #Athletics' Zobrist. https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal Going all out Zobrist isn't a rental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) Zobrist isn't a rental What do you mean? He's a free agent after this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) Zobrist isn't a rental 2015 Contract Status: Signed thru 2015, 6 yrs/$30M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 02:20 PM) Finnegan and Manaea were the Royals top 2 pitching prospects. Russell and Zimmer ranked ahead of Manaea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) Don't mind them clearing their system for rentals. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 11:52 AM) After losing game 7 year, I do not blame them for going for it. This is their window and it starts to close next year unless they start adding a lot of payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Ya, I definitely applaud them for going all in on this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 They are depleting their prospects, but the Royals got 2 really good fits that address clear team weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Finnegan hurts the most because Morales is their only lefty reliever right now, and he's been serviceable but not great. Manaea, Reed, Lamb, etc., none of them were ahead of Kyle Zimmer in the eyes of the front office, or their recently drafted Indiana kid in Ashe Russell. They lost a lot of their minor league pitching depth, but none of those guys were being counted on for 2016 other than Finnegan in the bullpen and the possibility of those other arms fighting for spots at the back end of the rotation. That will simply cost them money, but they were going to have to spend money on a free agent or make a trade anyway...and slot a guy after Volquez, Ventura, Duffy at the back end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think this last Royals trade was dumb. KC is so far ahead it is a lock to win the division which means it avoids the one-game wildcard bulls***. With that amazing defense, there's no way they can blow an 8-game lead even with Dyson and Orlando filling in for Gordon. Dyson and Orlando are useful players. They FULLY EXPECT Gordon to return well before the playoffs. So this most recent trade for Zobrist strips them of more pitchers who figured to be huge contributors in the future. There's no way they'll sign Zobrist or Cueto for next season so I think this last trade was dumb. Cueto is needed FOR the playoffs; Zobrist isn't. Seems like a dumb move by KC to strip itself of so many pitching prospects for the future. These two guys are rentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 After reading about KC's trade ... wouldn't Zobrist have been a good guy for the Sox to acquire? He draws walks and could have played 2B and DH'ed if LaRoche continues to stink. Sox may not have been able to beat KC's offer I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 09:49 PM) I think this last Royals trade was dumb. KC is so far ahead it is a lock to win the division which means it avoids the one-game wildcard bulls***. With that amazing defense, there's no way they can blow an 8-game lead even with Dyson and Orlando filling in for Gordon. Dyson and Orlando are useful players. They FULLY EXPECT Gordon to return well before the playoffs. So this most recent trade for Zobrist strips them of more pitchers who figured to be huge contributors in the future. There's no way they'll sign Zobrist or Cueto for next season so I think this last trade was dumb. Cueto is needed FOR the playoffs; Zobrist isn't. Seems like a dumb move by KC to strip itself of so many pitching prospects for the future. These two guys are rentals. They're not trying to simply win the division. This was a World Series move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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