Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:00 PM) WAR doesn't account for pitch framing though. And why is that? If pitch framing data is as reliable as some here seem to believe, why would WAR exclude it from its valuation of catcher defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 10:05 PM) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable...php?cid=1821757 I'd call #3 "one of the best". Eh that's 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:06 PM) And why is that? If pitch framing data is as reliable as some here seem to believe, why would WAR exclude it from its valuation of catcher defense? Because it's complicated. Framing helps pitchers (which probably increases their WAR), and if you include it for catchers then you're double-counting WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) @scotgregor: Looking ahead: Sale starts for #WhiteSox tomorrow vs. Boston's Steven Wright, who has allowed 10 R, 11 H in 9.1 IP in last 2 starts Offense should tee off again tomorrow Good. We need to sweep and Sale needs to get a win to improve his Cy Young chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) 6 outs away from a Chris Sale start and a shot at .500 Not bad. And then we quickly find out how real this team's transformation is when they face some real competition in teams like the Yankees and Cubs. Last time they reached .500, they went 1-7 to follow it up. Let's hope that's not the case this time or there will be a lot of disappointed White Sox fans. Hamels is close to going to the Rangers again...supposedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 06:58 PM) My argument? Ok, hitting-wise, he's extremely inconsistent and he basically sucks. But, defense at the catcher's position is very important. And while he is a "replacement level" defensive catcher, he is better at throwing runners out (stealing) than Soto, and he is one of the best pitch framers in all of baseball. If framing were a part of WAR, he'd be a positive WAR player. So, yes, he's not a good player, but he doesn't suck. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pitch framing has more to do with catching guys who don't walk people. It's the pitchers not the catchers. Building an argument for Flowers and bringing up pitch framing is dubious at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) @ckamka: Jose Quintana's last 7 starts: 2.81 ERA, 48.0 IP, 43/2 K/BB, 3 HR Edited July 30, 2015 by SouthSideSale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I liked that graphic about the Royals after 98 games last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Melky now 18-32 on the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Melky back on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I was starting to get worried about Melky. It had been a while since he had an extra-base hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:07 PM) Because it's complicated. Framing helps pitchers (which probably increases their WAR), and if you include it for catchers then you're double-counting WAR. I think they should either double count it or if it is a catcher skill, take that particular aspect away from the pitcher, and give it to the catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Abreu RBI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:07 PM) I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pitch framing has more to do with catching guys who don't walk people. It's the pitchers not the catchers. Building an argument for Flowers and bringing up pitch framing is dubious at best. Ok, even if you completely eliminate framing, he still hovers around the "average" mark defensively, has huge hitting streaks twice a year despite normal sucky offense, and is the preferred catcher of our staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:07 PM) Because it's complicated. Framing helps pitchers (which probably increases their WAR), and if you include it for catchers then you're double-counting WAR. While a fair point, not sure it's fair to assign the full value of pitch framing to the catcher when the pitcher clearly has some impact on the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) The Pirates essentially built their defensive philosophy around pitch-framing and shifting. The other component was pitchers throwing more to contact with two seamers/sinkers and keeping the ball on the infield and then having superlative outfielders paired with them. It's worked extremely well for them with both Russell Martin and then Cervelli this season. Edited July 30, 2015 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I love this swagger they have going. They're having fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Winning is fung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Nice heads up play by Abreu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 f***ing Bad News Bears Red Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Damn the Red Sox are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The Red Sox are hilaribad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 What was that? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Adam LaRoche=Stonewall Jackson? LOL. The Red Sox radio announcers are really bored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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