Rick Hahn

[Jake]

If you were an opposing GM, would you rather call KW or Hahn to get a deal done?

[Baron]

If you were an opposing GM, would you rather call KW or Hahn to get a deal done?

 

Well here's the thing. With the results from basically 3 years of play I would rather have Kenny as the General Manager. All the "right" moves Rick has made and such little results. He doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt. We act like he's built a clear contender before.

 

He has a year or two to get this right. Hopefully the damage isnt too bad if/when he leaves.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Baron

[RaySox]

If you were an opposing GM, would you rather call KW or Hahn to get a deal done?

 

Depends if my team is buying or selling

[LDF]

Well here's the thing. With the results from basically 3 years of play I would rather have Kenny as the General Manager. All the "right" moves Rick has made and such little results. He doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt. We act like he's built a clear contender before.

 

He has a year or two to get this right. Hopefully the damage isnt too bad if/when he leaves.

 

i disagree b/c we can not factor the KW influence in the equation, esp in the off season and now at the deadline.

 

and if anything, i can say that b/c KW is hahn's boss.

[Boopa1219]

I think this deadline proves that Hahn is running the show, if Kenny was in charge a move would have been made or better or worst and Kenny would not aknowledge the team's long term future.

[LDF]

I think this deadline proves that Hahn is running the show, if Kenny was in charge a move would have been made or better or worst and Kenny would not aknowledge the team's long term future.

 

you know, i agree. i can almost sense that the debate was raging and someone had to make a call. that is the owners.

 

but not trading is not everything, the non decision was a great lost of opportunity and may have hurt the rebuilding.

[oldsox]

you know, i agree. i can almost sense that the debate was raging and someone had to make a call. that is the owners.

 

but not trading is not everything, the non decision was a great lost of opportunity and may have hurt the rebuilding.

no question there.

[flavum]

Hahn's boss will be on the Score in a little bit.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I can't see how not trading HURT the "Rebuilding". It didn't help it right now, but it certainly didn't hurt it.

 

Shark was really the only piece that had any sort of value. I imagine a Kazmir like return. A lot of people are high on that return, but was it really better than a potential 25-30 pick?

 

 

The A's have a worse farm system than the Sox, and Nottingham ranks 8th in that system. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever the Sox take with their comp pick ranks in the top 10 right out the gate.

[caulfield12]

I can't see how not trading HURT the "Rebuilding". It didn't help it right now, but it certainly didn't hurt it.

 

Shark was really the only piece that had any sort of value. I imagine a Kazmir like return. A lot of people are high on that return, but was it really better than a potential 25-30 pick?

 

 

The A's have a worse farm system than the Sox, and Nottingham ranks 8th in that system. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever the Sox take with their comp pick ranks in the top 10 right out the gate.

 

 

It we had Posey or Molina or Yan Gomes or Sal Perez or Matt Wieters or Russell Martin or Yasmani Grandal, nobody would care much about Nottingham.

 

 

[LDF]

I can't see how not trading HURT the "Rebuilding". It didn't help it right now, but it certainly didn't hurt it.

 

Shark was really the only piece that had any sort of value. I imagine a Kazmir like return. A lot of people are high on that return, but was it really better than a potential 25-30 pick?

 

 

The A's have a worse farm system than the Sox, and Nottingham ranks 8th in that system. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever the Sox take with their comp pick ranks in the top 10 right out the gate.

 

b/c the player, or players the sox could have gotten will be major league ready player or in another option, that rtn would have had ready to move in quicker. now the sox will get a prospect who may be quite some yrs away from helping the parent club. now if he is used as a trade bait, they are still looking at a minimum of 2 yrs.

 

now if the sox had other players in the trade, same as above.

 

ref bolded, who is to say what the sox does with that pick. no one knows who or what will happen tomorrow. can't bet on the what if path.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

It we had Posey or Molina or Yan Gomes or Sal Perez or Matt Wieters or Russell Martin or Yasmani Grandal, nobody would care much about Nottingham.

Nottingham has a .525 OPS since he was traded. I know sample size. But don't tell me if the Sox traded Shark and he was the main piece you wouldn't be dwelling on that over and over again.

 

Hanging on to Shark is costing money, but as far as the future of the franchise, it is costing them nothing. You will whine from both sides of the fence. You actually wondered if KW was insane a couple of days ago, then you compalined about the Sox being conservative yesterday.

 

Leake got the Reds a high A pitcher. Cespedes got the Tigers a preseason top 100 pitcher with an ERA below 2.00. No one traded with SD because their prices were insane.

 

This is the best course, and the Sox are currently in good position to make waiver claims as the teams in the AL below them have no reason to block if they feel they are out of it.

 

And I know you will tell me I am wrong because that is what you do. I tried to copy and paste a quote from you one time in a thread you were comtrdicting yourself, but I did it wrong and it looked like I posted it. You started arguing with it. It was hysterical. Arguing your own post.

 

Considering the theme was KW is in charge and he is going to trade any prospect worth a damn for players who won't help the Sox , people should be happy that didn't happen. Now apparently, 2 months of Samardzija is worth franchise changing prospects since they didn't trade him. I know one thing, there is no way you wouldn't be ripping the return if they did trade him.

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Dick Allen

[2nd_city_saint787]

b/c the player, or players the sox could have gotten will be major league ready player or in another option, that rtn would have had ready to move in quicker. now the sox will get a prospect who may be quite some yrs away from helping the parent club. now if he is used as a trade bait, they are still looking at a minimum of 2 yrs.

 

now if the sox had other players in the trade, same as above.

 

ref bolded, who is to say what the sox does with that pick. no one knows who or what will happen tomorrow. can't bet on the what if path.

 

You're playing what if too though. We don't know whether or not they were in discussions for a near MLB ready bat.

 

I'd be a little surprised if whoever the Sox take with their comp pick isn't better than a guy like Nottingham.

 

Just for reference sake, the last 2 players the Sox took in the 2nd round are Tyler Danish and Spencer Adams. Sox will get a pick higher than where those guys were taken.

[LDF]

You're playing what if too though. We don't know whether or not they were in discussions for a near MLB ready bat. >>> ok i will buy that, but the point is no one can say for a certain what the sox would have asked.

 

Just for reference sake, the last 2 players the Sox took in the 2nd round are Tyler Danish and Spencer Adams. Sox will get a pick higher than where those guys were taken. and we are still waiting for their development to be finished. the sox has, according to the fo a window of 3 yrs.

Edited August 1, 2015 by LDF

[2nd_city_saint787]

You're playing what if too though. We don't know whether or not they were in discussions for a near MLB ready bat. >>> ok i will buy that, but the point is no one can say for a certain what the sox would have asked.

 

Then why argue the point?

 

All I know is I will gladly take the comp pick if the return was anywhere near the Kazmir/Leake return.

[2nd_city_saint787]

You're playing what if too though. We don't know whether or not they were in discussions for a near MLB ready bat. >>> ok i will buy that, but the point is no one can say for a certain what the sox would have asked.

 

Just for reference sake, the last 2 players the Sox took in the 2nd round are Tyler Danish and Spencer Adams. Sox will get a pick higher than where those guys were taken. and we are still waiting for their development to be finished. the sox has, according to the fo a window of 3 yrs.

 

And we just don't know if they found a guy in trade talks that fit that 3 year window. If that guy wasn't there to be had, I would take the comp pick. I remember many a posters using this logic even before the 7 game win streak.

 

 

[LDF]

Then why argue the point?

All I know is I will gladly take the comp pick if the return was anywhere near the Kazmir/Leake return.

 

And we just don't know if they found a guy in trade talks that fit that 3 year window. If that guy wasn't there to be had, I would take the comp pick. I remember many a posters using this logic even before the 7 game win streak.

 

the main point is, and again that that into account and trying not finding the little argument to try to win this discussion..... better yet, i make it easier for you, you won.

 

but take into account that 3 yr window you mention, guess what.... tic toc.. tic toc... tic toc. the sox is on the clock.

 

so do you really think the sox would not be better than that comp pick?? do you really think that the sox had the decision not to sell before yesterday???

 

ref to bold.... bingo.

[BlackSox13]

Without knowing what the offers for Samardzija were, its tough for me to criticize the FO. Maybe the bids were under, who knows. I'm fine with the comp pick in next year's draft and trust the SOX to grab a nice prospect. Fwiw, Spencer Adams was drafted #44 and Kolek #2. Adams has better numbers so far and they square off today for the third time this season in A- . Just goes to show there will be talent available when the Sox comp pick comes up, they just need to grab the right player.

 

I'm very happy the Sox did not trade top minor league talent for a rental. The SOX have remained committed to building the farm and I have to give them credit for that.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

the main point is, and again that that into account and trying not finding the little argument to try to win this discussion..... better yet, i make it easier for you, you won.

 

but take into account that 3 yr window you mention, guess what.... tic toc.. tic toc... tic toc. the sox is on the clock.

 

so do you really think the sox would not be better than that comp pick?? do you really think that the sox had the decision not to sell before yesterday???

 

ref to bold.... bingo.

 

I'm not trying to win an argument here.

 

Yes, I think the Sox will get a better player with their comp pick than what they would have got in a trade.

 

I believe Hahn when he said they were aggressive in trying to make moves, and agree that if the returns weren't up to par then you don't trade just to trade.

[LDF]

I'm not trying to win an argument here.

 

Yes, I think the Sox will get a better player with their comp pick than what they would have got in a trade.

 

I believe Hahn when he said they were aggressive in trying to make moves, and agree that if the returns weren't up to par then you don't trade just to trade.

 

ok if you say so.

 

again no ones the whole truth to the whole thing. was hahn speaking for the org and was he telling the whole truth. if so, then some one is not telling the truth when it was mention that the sox were undecided in which way they wanted to go.

 

bottom line the not doing anything hurt.

 

if the rtn was not up to par...... when in this whole hectic week was he talking about.... to arbitrarily say that, can be used to throw off many people. another point, using poker here, if they were expecting 4-aces.... and only got 3 and a king, you throw in your hand???

 

no one is going to tell me that these many teams who were buying was not offering something enticing, that is, if the sox was still hesitant in pulling the trade button.

[Balta1701]

Without knowing what the offers for Samardzija were, its tough for me to criticize the FO. Maybe the bids were under, who knows. I'm fine with the comp pick in next year's draft and trust the SOX to grab a nice prospect. Fwiw, Spencer Adams was drafted #44 and Kolek #2. Adams has better numbers so far and they square off today for the third time this season in A- . Just goes to show there will be talent available when the Sox comp pick comes up, they just need to grab the right player.

 

I'm very happy the Sox did not trade top minor league talent for a rental. The SOX have remained committed to building the farm and I have to give them credit for that.

Personally, it's just nice to have everyone come around and suddenly agree with me when last offseason I said that expecting Samardzija's value to rise by the trade deadline was silly. Now everyone's switched to the excuse of weak offers, which is what everyone should have expected for a 2 month rental.

[LDF]

Without knowing what the offers for Samardzija were, its tough for me to criticize the FO. Maybe the bids were under, who knows. I'm fine with the comp pick in next year's draft and trust the SOX to grab a nice prospect. Fwiw, Spencer Adams was drafted #44 and Kolek #2. Adams has better numbers so far and they square off today for the third time this season in A- . Just goes to show there will be talent available when the Sox comp pick comes up, they just need to grab the right player.

 

I'm very happy the Sox did not trade top minor league talent for a rental. The SOX have remained committed to building the farm and I have to give them credit for that.

 

excellent point. but the window is 3 yrs. adams will not be ready in the following 2 yrs. since yr 1 is 2015 season.

 

draft is a complete unknown. some players do pan out as hope, some don't. then there is the unknown.... trout, stanton of the mlb world.

 

i too am happy they did not go for the rentals as well.

[LDF]

Personally, it's just nice to have everyone come around and suddenly agree with me when last offseason I said that expecting Samardzija's value to rise by the trade deadline was silly. Now everyone's switched to the excuse of weak offers, which is what everyone should have expected for a 2 month rental.

 

not everyone.... i am still on the same page i have been since spring training. much to the exasperation feelings of the other posters.

[BlackSox13]

Personally, it's just nice to have everyone come around and suddenly agree with me when last offseason I said that expecting Samardzija's value to rise by the trade deadline was silly. Now everyone's switched to the excuse of weak offers, which is what everyone should have expected for a 2 month rental.

You and I were among the first to question Samardzija's value in his trade thread. His bad start and rental status does not scream huge return, thats for sure. Also remember neither of us wanted to make the trade in the first place when it was first mentioned last November.

 

excellent point. but the window is 3 yrs. adams will not be ready in the following 2 yrs. since yr 1 is 2015 season.

 

draft is a complete unknown. some players do pan out as hope, some don't. then there is the unknown.... trout, stanton of the mlb world.

 

i too am happy they did not go for the rentals as well.

I don't buy into the three year window bulls*** as its just another play on words term used by the FO for the fans. But that's just my opinion.

 

Every year or two we hear a new phrase coming out of the FO ( reshaping, retooling, rebuilding on the fly, etc).

 

I think that in the end, the offers for Samardzija were much less than what most fans anticipated. Next year's draft is supposed to have more talent so maybe the Sox figured the comp pick has more value than the offers they received. Just a guess.

[caulfield12]

Nottingham has a .525 OPS since he was traded. I know sample size. But don't tell me if the Sox traded Shark and he was the main piece you wouldn't be dwelling on that over and over again.

 

Hanging on to Shark is costing money, but as far as the future of the franchise, it is costing them nothing. You will whine from both sides of the fence. You actually wondered if KW was insane a couple of days ago, then you compalined about the Sox being conservative yesterday.

 

Leake got the Reds a high A pitcher. Cespedes got the Tigers a preseason top 100 pitcher with an ERA below 2.00. No one traded with SD because their prices were insane.

 

This is the best course, and the Sox are currently in good position to make waiver claims as the teams in the AL below them have no reason to block if they feel they are out of it.

 

And I know you will tell me I am wrong because that is what you do. I tried to copy and paste a quote from you one time in a thread you were comtrdicting yourself, but I did it wrong and it looked like I posted it. You started arguing with it. It was hysterical. Arguing your own post.

 

Considering the theme was KW is in charge and he is going to trade any prospect worth a damn for players who won't help the Sox , people should be happy that didn't happen. Now apparently, 2 months of Samardzija is worth franchise changing prospects since they didn't trade him. I know one thing, there is no way you wouldn't be ripping the return if they did trade him.

 

 

This is rich, no matter what happens, you have a defense for the organization...par for the course. Surely you've scouted all those guys who were acquired and have already deduced they're all going to end up as busts.

 

Since nobody knows the actual offers on the table (and when they were made, Hahn was supposedly ready to fold 4-6 weeks ago), we will never know, all the we can do is surmise. Kind of a pointless exercise, although those who think it was wise to hold onto Samardzija will surely be outnumbered by a 3:1 ratio.

 

Next you will try to spin that their strategy all along was to position themselves at the very bottom of the also-rans, but not far enough out of the race that they couldn't pick off all those players from the waiver wire like Jay Bruce, CarGo, Justin Upton, Ethier, etc.

 

Brilliant! Why don't teams just do that every season? We can play chicken with other organizations and end up with another Alex Rios in 2009...who will help us about half the time and the other half we'll want to strangle him and whose salary will be so bloated it will prevent us from making other moves for younger players who might actually be in their primes from 2016-2019.

 

 

Both sides of the fence to you: We want them to not waste top 3-4 minor league prospects on a rental but still trade Samardzija and take our chances with EJ if there's no way to do a bigger trade like Puig and 4/5 starter for Quintana.

 

So, in your world, there's only buying or selling, and a combination of both those is way too complex to understand? If you bothered to read, I agreed with nearly everyone we shouldn't overpay for a rental and that we'd probably end up getting someone like Mike Napoli as a waiver claim (albeit too late). Maybe Valencia now, who knows. KW trading Anderson or Montas or Micah or even EJ for Upton/Cespedes would have been insane, especially the first two players.

 

In the end, there's no way in hell that fans will expect much of anything from whoever they draft with that pick...because analysis of all those picks outside of the Top 3 every year shows not to expect much of picks in 20's, 30's and 40's as a general rule of thumb. But we won't really know if it was a bad pick until 2018 or 2019 so perhaps fans won't even care as much by then if the White Sox are actually competing for the playoffs.

 

At least it was entertaining for you to argue the Royals had blown all their chances to compete after this season by blowing their wad on Cueto and Zobrist...somehow KC was the only team dumb enough to pay such exorbidant rates for 2 month rentals.

Edited August 1, 2015 by caulfield12