The Disappointment Thread

[caulfield12]

They have had a good month. Pulling the plug right when they get back into it is not a good message.

 

 

About the same message as getting throttled by the Yankees with Danks next in line...

[bmags]

Team sure knows how to waste fan engagement. Opening day and this

[LDF]

Thanks guys. Sad that all of the updates meant nothing in the end, but maybe we'll make a waiver move!

 

r u serious..... that is part of this board lore.... all the hype all the excitement .... that is what sox baseball is all about.

[The Beast]

I'm not sure that standing pat at the deadline was the best move, but it was what I expected. I don't think the return for Shark would have been as good as what the Tigers got for Price either. At the end of the day, the Sox can move Shark in August (unlikely), take the comp pick when he walks this offseason or sign him to a new deal. The best move? I'd say let him walk and take the pick.

 

What I'm upset about is that they have Danks and LaRoche under contract for next year and they'll have to play them. What really sucks is that the free agent market for 2016 isn't that great considering they won't go after Price or Cueto and a lot of guys that are noteworthy are in their early to mid-thirties. At least it will be exciting to see how Hahn will improve the roster with a lot of guys under contract for the next two years. It would be awesome if they could get a new SS, (I know that Anderson is in the wings), catcher (Matt Wieters is a free agent) and make Saladino the every day third baseman (if he keeps this level of play up).

Edited August 1, 2015 by MuckFinnesota

[caulfield12]

r u serious..... that is part of this board lore.... all the hype all the excitement .... that is what sox baseball is all about.

 

 

Manny Ramirez or Alphonso Soriano...on their way to the SouthSide.

 

Come on down!

[StrangeSox]

They have had a good month. Pulling the plug right when they get back into it is not a good message.

Welp

[SCCWS]

I'm not sure that standing pat at the deadline was the best move, but it was what I expected. I don't think the return for Shark would have been as good as what the Tigers got for Price either. At the end of the day, the Sox can move Shark in August (unlikely), take the comp pick when he walks this offseason or sign him to a new deal. The best move? I'd say let him walk and take the pick.

 

What I'm upset about is that they have Danks and LaRoche under contract for next year and they'll have to play them. What really sucks is that the free agent market for 2016 isn't that great considering they won't go after Price or Cueto and a lot of guys that are noteworthy are in their early to mid-thirties. At least it will be exciting to see how Hahn will improve the roster with a lot of guys under contract for the next two years. It would be awesome if they could get a new SS, (I know that Anderson is in the wings), catcher (Matt Wieters is a free agent) and make Saladino the every day third baseman (if he keeps this level of play up).

 

Not sure what level of play that is. You have to get power production from 3B especially since you are not getting much from 2B and SS. I think they have to see for 2B is it Sanchez or Saladino. Both are probably sub .250 hitters w good gloves and no power. One can start and one be the backup infielder.

[GreenSox]

Why would a non playoff team block him? And a team in contention might be willing to trade something for him.

They wouldn't.

But a playoff contender would.

I have to bone up on exactly how the waiver deals work, but I think the Sox would need the contender with the worst record to actually want him. Otherwise, that team would just claim to block, knowing we wouldn't just let him go.

[LDF]

I'm not sure that standing pat at the deadline was the best move, but it was what I expected. I don't think the return for Shark would have been as good as what the Tigers got for Price either. At the end of the day, the Sox can move Shark in August (unlikely), take the comp pick when he walks this offseason or sign him to a new deal. The best move? I'd say let him walk and take the pick.

 

What I'm upset about is that they have Danks and LaRoche under contract for next year and they'll have to play them. What really sucks is that the free agent market for 2016 isn't that great considering they won't go after Price or Cueto and a lot of guys that are noteworthy are in their early to mid-thirties. At least it will be exciting to see how Hahn will improve the roster with a lot of guys under contract for the next two years. It would be awesome if they could get a new SS, (I know that Anderson is in the wings), catcher (Matt Wieters is a free agent) and make Saladino the every day third baseman (if he keeps this level of play up).

 

no one can say that.... no knows what the sox intentions were in the beginning of the trading deadline.

 

if adam was gone, then many would not have see the gem of his pitching ....

[Wanne]

If they don't resign him, a comp pick is valuable in this day and age, just for the bonus room alone.

 

true....and the Sox must value that comp pick more than any trade package they were offered. I know that's pure speculation...but it would be interesting to see the type of packages that were offered. I told my dad this would happen a month ago...a little mini streak and they'd stand pat...and then lose 8 out of 10 after the deadline.

[Balta1701]

true....and the Sox must value that comp pick more than any trade package they were offered. I know that's pure speculation...but it would be interesting to see the type of packages that were offered. I told my dad this would happen a month ago...a little mini streak and they'd stand pat...and then lose 8 out of 10 after the deadline.

I still say a comp pick is a pretty rotten return for the player. A comp pick is, to me, a guy with about a 50% chance of being in the big leagues 4-5 years later and 10% chance of being an all-star within 7-8. The White Sox gave up 4 guys who were on the verge of being big league hitters and will get 1 guy who has probably a 60% chance of reaching that level in return.

 

Yes there's some additional flexibility in there where you can move money around, so that's not perfect, but basically the White Sox gave up 4 guys and will get 1 guy with a 60% chance of getting to the point where any of those 4 guys got, and a bit more flexiblity to move money around.

 

If they couldn't get an easily better return than that, then the league respects Samardzija less than I do and they think he's about to fall completely apart.

[caulfield12]

I still say a comp pick is a pretty rotten return for the player. A comp pick is, to me, a guy with about a 50% chance of being in the big leagues 4-5 years later and 10% chance of being an all-star within 7-8. The White Sox gave up 4 guys who were on the verge of being big league hitters and will get 1 guy who has probably a 60% chance of reaching that level in return.

 

Yes there's some additional flexibility in there where you can move money around, so that's not perfect, but basically the White Sox gave up 4 guys and will get 1 guy with a 60% chance of getting to the point where any of those 4 guys got, and a bit more flexiblity to move money around.

 

If they couldn't get an easily better return than that, then the league respects Samardzija less than I do and they think he's about to fall completely apart.

 

 

Except for the part about Chris Bassitt also being a hitter, agreed.

 

But saying he's (the comp pick) going to have the upside/ceiling of someone like Rangel Ravelo in AA (granted, limited power, no position and injury-prone) isn't going to get Hahn a contract extension.

 

And the one point people are overlooking with that trade is that let's say we did have those four additional players available (and that Semien was contributing the same for us as for Oakland), then that additional depth might have made a key difference in being able to make some different moves at the deadline. Now we'll never know, all we can do is speculate.

 

But the odds of that pick doing what Semien, Bassitt and Phegley have already done in the majors this season are about 10-15% at best.

Edited August 1, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

But the odds of that pick doing what Semien, Bassitt and Phegley have already done in the majors this season are about 10-15% at best.

I'm pessimistic on that pick but you've underestimated it here. These guys haven't established themselves as long-term successes yet, so I'd still say a comp pick has a 40% chance or so of matching that, give or take. The numbers when I looked through the comp picks were 10% of them over the last decade being all-star worthy and about 50% of them making the big leagues. If you say "made the big leagues and being slightly positive players so far" then you're probably down to 40% of the comp picks or so, but if 10% or so of comp picks are legit All Star quality, then you're underestimating the value of the pick.

[Wanne]

I still say a comp pick is a pretty rotten return for the player. A comp pick is, to me, a guy with about a 50% chance of being in the big leagues 4-5 years later and 10% chance of being an all-star within 7-8. The White Sox gave up 4 guys who were on the verge of being big league hitters and will get 1 guy who has probably a 60% chance of reaching that level in return.

 

Yes there's some additional flexibility in there where you can move money around, so that's not perfect, but basically the White Sox gave up 4 guys and will get 1 guy with a 60% chance of getting to the point where any of those 4 guys got, and a bit more flexiblity to move money around.

 

If they couldn't get an easily better return than that, then the league respects Samardzija less than I do and they think he's about to fall completely apart.

 

I'm not saying I agree with overvaluing the comp pick...I think the Sox might. But again we have no clue what was even remotely offered for him. I will say this tho...I value it more now than I do say 5 or 6 years ago! The Sox have been plucking some great talent with their first 3 picks the last few years. Mostly tho...the Sox probably believe they still have a chance at a wild card spot and didn't think Shark's slot in the rotation could even remotely be replaced is the bottom line IMO.

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying I agree with overvaluing the comp pick...I think the Sox might. But again we have no clue what was even remotely offered for him. I will say this tho...I value it more now than I do say 5 or 6 years ago! The Sox have been plucking some great talent with their first 3 picks the last few years. Mostly tho...the Sox probably believe they still have a chance at a wild card spot and didn't think Shark's slot in the rotation could even remotely be replaced is the bottom line IMO.

Then they needed to add a bat. Even a decent bat. No discussion, no debate. They needed to add a bat.

[Baron]

Then they needed to add a bat. Even a decent bat. No discussion, no debate. They needed to add a bat.

 

Yep Toronto and Baltimore believes it too. Look what they did.

[Wanne]

Then they needed to add a bat. Even a decent bat. No discussion, no debate. They needed to add a bat.

 

Pick up Valencia and problem solved. Not the optimum bat...but pretty decent. Could be a win win....

[SCCWS]

Pick up Valencia and problem solved. Not the optimum bat...but pretty decent. Could be a win win....

 

Agree. Now if they figured yesterday that guys like Valencia would be available as soon as today, then it makes sense they held off yesterday. But they may pass on Valancia and wait for Trout's name to pop up.

[Dick Allen]

Then they needed to add a bat. Even a decent bat. No discussion, no debate. They needed to add a bat.

They can still add a bat.

[caulfield12]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/140263494/ro...rade-candidates

 

Phil Rogers names John Danks one of the August names that could be on the move.

John Danks, White Sox, SP: Historically, the White Sox have not been very willing to pay players to work elsewhere, but they have young pitching coming and need places to put them. Danks' 4.33 career ERA won't command attention, but consider this: He pitched very well in starts against the Cardinals, Pirates and Reds this year, cutting his ERA to 2.92 in 28 inter-league starts. He's worked to copy Mark Buehrle's style, and it plays against NL lineups.

 

CarGo, Marlon Byrd, Adam Lind and Starlin Castro among the hitters profiled.

 

I'll add Mike Napoli to the list.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

I'm pessimistic on that pick but you've underestimated it here. These guys haven't established themselves as long-term successes yet, so I'd still say a comp pick has a 40% chance or so of matching that, give or take. The numbers when I looked through the comp picks were 10% of them over the last decade being all-star worthy and about 50% of them making the big leagues. If you say "made the big leagues and being slightly positive players so far" then you're probably down to 40% of the comp picks or so, but if 10% or so of comp picks are legit All Star quality, then you're underestimating the value of the pick.

 

 

In a perfect/ideal universe, maybe...but I lowered my estimates because of the Sox record in that position player evaluation/draft and development side of things.

 

We'd be bucking a decade of history, going all the way back to Crede and Aaron Rowand since we produced an All-Star (I think one of them made it at least once...or is that wrong?)

 

Looked it up to be sure, Joe Crede, 2008. Silver Slugger as well.

 

I suppose Gordon Beckham COULD have made it in 2009 if he didn't start relatively late that season. But that turned out to be a false-positive.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Give me CarGo. f*** the haters!

[StrangeSox]

So glad they didn't send the wrong message to this great roster by trading away shark

[caulfield12]

So glad they didn't send the wrong message to this great roster by trading away shark

 

Adding to the sting even more, newly-acquired Daniel Norris beating the Orioles in his debut for the Tigers and passing the Sox in the standings.

[LittleHurt05]

Adding to the sting even more, newly-acquired Daniel Norris beating the Orioles in his debut for the Tigers and passing the Sox in the standings.

 

I missed when Daniel Norris was on the table for Shark. There's a slight difference between Shark and David Price.