White Sox make no trades at the deadline.

[caulfield12]

100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years.

 

 

Except that trading Shark yesterday would have been understandable.

 

The Blue Jays had a "super team" assembled (like the Indians at that time), the lead was also 3 1/2 games but in this case, the odds were even lower because of the presence of 5-6 other teams in the race and an absolutely horrendous stretch of six consecutive series facing them and the historically terrible offense (except for the recently mowing down 2 last place teams that were slumping).

 

Let's just put it this way....not having traded Shark's not going to sell any additional season tickets, but the fact that we couldn't get a useful position player in return for him's going to make competing next year even more difficult.

[LDF]

100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years.

 

but it is part of the history of the sox.... anyway, during that white flag trade.... look at the date of the trade.

 

however when the majority of the fans base was in agreement, this time around in trading, they waited too long.... or didn't want to do it.

 

this has nothing to do with the white flag fiasco, this is all on the the indecisiveness of the FO.

[oldsox]

100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years.

Correct. The media killed the Sox after that trade. Management was intimidated. Ironically, they wanted to trade Robin, too, but backed off, and he went the free agent route after that season.

Edited August 1, 2015 by oldsox

[fathom]

Except that trading Shark yesterday would have been understandable.

 

Yes to smart baseball fans, but the casual fan would have thought it was the Sox giving up

[GreenSox]

100% wrong. The fact that you referenced the White Flag trade is exactly why they didn't trade Jeff Samardjiza. Sox fans are STILL bringing that up after almost 20 years.

yea, but the front office isn't fans. They are professionals. They shouldn't be bothered with that if they have a plan.

You know how they could have overcome white flag with the fans? Show that deadline selling works. Such as trading for Varitek and Derrick Lowe instead of Foulke, Howry and a bunch of duds.

Or show a history of deadline selling to build a winner.

Edited August 1, 2015 by GreenSox

[LDF]

Correct. The media killed the Sox after that trade.

 

if i remember correctly..... there was no internet so there had to have something to ignite it..... yeah it was the media.

 

i agree 100%.

[Soxfest]

So basically what people were guessing he'd say hours ago?

Same old BS line they used multiple other years.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Soxfest

[southsider2k5]

Except that trading Shark yesterday would have been understandable.

 

The Blue Jays had a "super team" assembled (like the Indians at that time), the lead was also 3 1/2 games but in this case, the odds were even lower because of the presence of 5-6 other teams in the race and an absolutely horrendous stretch of six consecutive series facing them and the historically terrible offense (except for the recently mowing down 2 last place teams that were slumping).

 

Let's just put it this way....not having traded Shark's not going to sell any additional season tickets, but the fact that we couldn't get a useful position player in return for him's going to make competing next year even more difficult.

 

Logic doesn't matter. It didn't matter in 1997, and it wouldn't have mattered today.

[southsider2k5]

yea, but the front office isn't fans. They are professionals. They shouldn't be bothered with that if they have a plan.

You know how they could have overcome white flag with the fans? Show that deadline selling works. Such as trading for Varitek and Derrick Lowe instead of Foulke, Howry and a bunch of duds.

Or show a history of deadline selling to build a winner.

 

Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit.

[caulfield12]

Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit.

 

 

But, otoh, if you allow the fans to "intimidate" the front office out of making moves, you're done before you start.

 

Well, we can't do XYZ because of White Flag.

 

Leading to, we can't realistically compete next year without trading away XYZ, which constitutes surrender in the minds of fans.

 

In the end, they either don't have the will to win or the front office was nuts to think they could hang with these other teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Astros and even the Rangers who were all operating like large-market teams. (Heck, the team that had just won 4 consecutive division titles just white flagged it when trailing the WC by the same number of games as the White Sox...)

 

 

So you're stuck in this loop where fear of fan reaction forces you to do things you don't want to do because you know they're not consistent with building a long-term, sustainable model.

[Flash Tizzle]

Logic doesn't matter. It didn't matter in 1997, and it wouldn't have mattered today.

How many years do we have to appease these f***ing people by keeping a flawed team entact to avoid screams of White Flag!?

 

I would have White Flagged this team even if we were tied for the wild card. However our front office lacks convinction and cares about further affecting an already meger attendance.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit.

 

 

It really seems the only realistic option is to move, unless they can hit on almost all of their moves like 2004-2005.

 

Otherwise, it's declining revenues vs. the sweetheart deal for USCF, waiting for the 2019 broadcasting rights economic boon and maximizing franchise value for a possible sale.

 

The team's worth more in Chicago, but the fanbase is getting fed up to the point where a fresh start in another city OR new management in place (see Black Hawks) are the only viable choices.

[caulfield12]

How many years do we have to appease these f***ing people by keeping a flawed team entact to avoid screams of White Flag!?

 

I would have White Flagged this team even if we were tied for the wild card. However our front office lacks convinction and cares about further affecting an already meger attendance.

 

 

Oh no, they'll fall behind CLE, TB and Oakland in attendance!!!

 

Not sure that's even possible.

 

 

But the franchise is worth $800 million - $1.2 billion!!!

[asindc]

If that's the case, then the White Sox don't have to worry about bandwagon fans or excuses, they should just do what they think is best for the organization at all times.

 

That's not the theme we've heard for the last decade...that the White Sox can't afford to rebuild because the fanbase won't have the patience or tolerance to accept it.

 

And the problem with the rebuild approach is we didn't even follow that plan today.

 

 

The only other AL Central team who didn't do much in the last week has a better future (Twins), the Tigers added a lot of prospects/pieces, the Royals are still in a good position through 2017...the best we can argue is that we MIGHT be better off than the Indians at this point.

 

How do any of us know they didn't? Do you know what was offered for Shark, or asked for in return?

 

[RaySox]

I hope we can sign Shark for a decent price/length. Pitching can't get worse next year if we're doing this "3-year window" thing

[MDWhiteSoxFan]

We go from sellers to buyers to staying pat just in time for us to drop 5-7 of the next 10.

[LDF]

But, otoh, if you allow the fans to "intimidate" the front office out of making moves, you're done before you start.

 

Well, we can't do XYZ because of White Flag.

 

Leading to, we can't realistically compete next year without trading away XYZ, which constitutes surrender in the minds of fans.

 

In the end, they either don't have the will to win or the front office was nuts to think they could hang with these other teams like the Blue Jays, Royals, Astros and even the Rangers who were all operating like large-market teams. (Heck, the team that had just won 4 consecutive division titles just white flagged it when trailing the WC by the same number of games as the White Sox...)

 

 

So you're stuck in this loop where fear of fan reaction forces you to do things you don't want to do because you know they're not consistent with building a long-term, sustainable model.

 

i like this post... i agree.

[LDF]

How do any of us know they didn't? Do you know what was offered for Shark, or asked for in return?

 

by default, the actions of not trading shark.

 

we as fans can assume that by the following results:

 

a. the sox were undecided on what they wanted to do. sources>>> mlb rumors.

b. the sox waited too long to decide and the market wasn't there. >>> no trade

c. the sox must have had offers on the table that were batter than a comp pick coming back. now the value of those picks come into question.

[GreenSox]

Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit.

it does a lot of good if it works.

And you aren't going to win without a plan, except with an occasional fluke.

And if you don't win you lose your fans anyway.

[LDF]

Except those are the people they are trying to keep engaged. A plan does them no good if their fans think they quit.

 

then and i mean by this statement, whom ever developed the plan, do not think highly of the fans intelligence.

[Boopa1219]

I'm happy. They didn't jeopardize the future and didn't force a move just to make one. And they should be getting a comp pick.

[asindc]

by default, the actions of not trading shark.

 

we as fans can assume that by the following results:

 

a. the sox were undecided on what they wanted to do. sources>>> mlb rumors.

b. the sox waited too long to decide and the market wasn't there. >>> no trade

c. the sox must have had offers on the table that were batter than a comp pick coming back. now the value of those picks come into question.

 

a and c are not indications that they didn't follow their plan.

 

[LDF]

a and c are not indications that they didn't follow their plan.

a. the sox were undecided on what they wanted to do. sources>>> mlb rumors.

 

c. the sox must have had offers on the table that were better than a comp pick coming back. now the value of those picks come into question.

 

in following a plan, i really can say that A. was not in anyone's plan. to look confuse, undecided on what to do. we can look at the results of some of the other trades that were completed and know a similar pkg was there for shark. many teams would have made that trade earlier in the week. the reason why i say that, b/c the longer the team, who is the buyer, want that player before the price got higher or another team gets involve. any way per mlb rumors, the sox were the ones who were undecided. it was stated.

 

c. even at the last part of the day, teams who needed a quality pitcher, a pitcher who can help, that offer had to be on the table. even if it was not ideal. now is the real question. was the offer on the table still better than the comp pick that the sox was sure to get.

 

here is a interesting idea. i wonder if hahn was quick on his feet when a plan goes askew. having the ability to make changes on the fly.

 

now a side note.... nice debate.

[Dick Allen]

How many years do we have to appease these f***ing people by keeping a flawed team entact to avoid screams of White Flag!?

 

I would have White Flagged this team even if we were tied for the wild card. However our front office lacks convinction and cares about further affecting an already meger attendance.

You make it sound like they turned down an entire team's elite propsects for Samrdzija. What was out there? I would think his return would have been similar to Leake's. Is that really a franchise changer vs. the comp pick?

[LDF]

You make it sound like they turned down an entire team's elite propsects for Samrdzija. What was out there? I would think his return would have been similar to Leake's. Is that really a franchise changer vs. the comp pick?

 

i don't know if i agree.

 

the whole thing is / was a decision had to be made. i have a gut feeling that there was a debating going on. at the same time other teams were making moves. i am looking at the price and leake. closer to the price minus.

 

just my opinion.