Sox have tried to sign Samardzija to a long term deal

[greg775]

He was an excellent pitcher last year. What he's done this year is not indicative of what kind of pitcher he was before.

See, this is what fans of opposing teams and GMs will say in the winter when they award him an insane contract. Can you imagine if you had as bad a year at work as he did this year? You'd be fired, not given an insanely lucrative contract.

 

Here's your preseason article on Shark next February... "The (Red Sox/Dodgers/Giants/Padres, whomever) are counting on a bounceback season from Jeff Samardja, who had an uncharacteristically poor season in 2015 with the White Sox. He basically was a bad fit with a White Sox team that was poor on defense and wretched offensively. There was very little to play for during his historically bad second half, one in which he clearly was not even using all his pitches, just stretching out the arm in advance of free agency. The change of scenery figures to help Samardja, who almost certainly will return to ace or No. 2 status in the rotation."

Edited September 17, 2015 by greg775

[BlackSox13]

Samardzija pitched for the Cubs when they couldn't score him runs. He was an excellent pitcher last year. What he's done this year is not indicative of what kind of pitcher he was before.

But it is indicative of what kind of pitcher he is now and that's what is important when considering he is going on age 31 and a free agent. I give Balta alot of credit because he has been pointing out stats throughout the season that show Shark baits regression, namely K/BB rates plus Shark bait has given up a significant amount of hits compared to seasons past. Some of this can be chalked up to USC and a poor defense but we've seen how Shark bait leaves a ton of pitches hanging over the plate and has been hit hard. Just my opinion but Shark bait has already peaked.

 

I will say that I don't think he will be as bad in the future as he has been this year but he will not be what he once was either.

[Middle Buffalo]

Since the deadline he is 1-8 with a 9.24 ERA, in 9 starts. That gets a lot of pitchers a new line of work.

 

 

If you don't want to give him any blame, giving anyone any blame is silly.

I've heard Bruce Levine and a few others speculate that the reason for Samardija's decline after the trade deadline was his disappointment at not being traded to a contender. That excuses the player and blames the organization - which isn't surprising coming from a Cubs cheerleader. However, it ignores that the Sox got hot at the wrong time and were a possible contender themselves.

 

I don't consider Samardija to be anything more than a .500 pitcher who can eat innings. There's value in that, but not 4/$80 million worth. Make him the QO. If he accepts and the Sox get stuck with him, slot him in at fourth in the rotation.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Middle Buffalo

[Dick Allen]

But it is indicative of what kind of pitcher he is now and that's what is important when considering he is going on age 31 and a free agent. I give Balta alot of credit because he has been pointing out stats throughout the season that show Shark baits regression, namely K/BB rates plus Shark bait has given up a significant amount of hits compared to seasons past. Some of this can be chalked up to USC and a poor defense but we've seen how Shark bait leaves a ton of pitches hanging over the plate and has been hit hard. Just my opinion but Shark bait has already peaked.

 

I will say that I don't think he will be as bad in the future as he has been this year but he will not be what he once was either.

His k-rate is down, but about 1 per 9 innings, so not gigantic. His velocity is pretty much the same, so I think the k-rate being down is more of an indication of bad location and/or pitch selection than declining skill. For some reason, he still is a 2.3 WAR pitcher this season. He will get paid, but not as much as he turned down from the Cubs.

 

 

BTW, for all the Cubs fans on here, think about how much luck was involved in their rebuild. Arrietta comes out of nowhere, the Astros take Appel instead of Bryant, and Samardzija turns down $85 million. Where are they if those go the other way? That isn't Theo being a genius. That is just the way the ball bounced.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Dick Allen

[whitesoxfan99]

His k-rate is down, but about 1 per 9 innings, so not gigantic. His velocity is pretty much the same, so I think the k-rate being down is more of an indication of bad location and/or pitch selection than declining skill. For some reason, he still is a 2.3 WAR pitcher this season. He will get paid, but not as much as he turned down from the Cubs.

 

He is also throwing way more cutters this year and way less 2 seam fastballs. I'm not really sure why the Sox decided to change his pitching style so much or why they haven't tried to have him go back to what was successful for him last year but I wonder if that has played a role in his struggles as well.

[Dick Allen]

He is also throwing way more cutters this year and way less 2 seam fastballs. I'm not really sure why the Sox decided to change his pitching style so much or why they haven't tried to have him go back to what was successful for him last year but I wonder if that has played a role in his struggles as well.

Seems pretty weird, unless they were trying to prepare him for the inevitable drop in velocity he will face down the road. Whatever it is, it obviously has been a colossal failure.

[southsider2k5]

He is also throwing way more cutters this year and way less 2 seam fastballs. I'm not really sure why the Sox decided to change his pitching style so much or why they haven't tried to have him go back to what was successful for him last year but I wonder if that has played a role in his struggles as well.

 

His arm angle really seems to have dropped down. He went from being pretty high, to throwing almost like post surgery Jake Peavy.

[whitesoxfan99]

Seems pretty weird, unless they were trying to prepare him for the inevitable drop in velocity he will face down the road. Whatever it is, it obviously has been a colossal failure.

 

I would love to know the thought process behind it. This doesn't excuse Samardzija's terrible pitching this year but I found this really odd and Cooper probably deserve a good amount of blame for just how bad Samardzjia has been.

[southsider2k5]

I would love to know the thought process behind it. This doesn't excuse Samardzija's terrible pitching this year but I found this really odd and Cooper probably deserve a good amount of blame for just how bad Samardzjia has been.

 

I doubt it. Cooper and all of the minor league coaches preach standing tall and throwing downhill. It is the organizational philosophy. Nothing about it sounds like Don Cooper. Honestly if the stories about Cooper and Samardjiza not getting along are true, it makes absolutely sense that Samardjiza is doing one thing, throwing from a lower arm angle, while Cooper is trying to get him back up into the over the top arm slot. That could well be the source of conflict.

[elrockinMT]

His arm angle really seems to have dropped down. He went from being pretty high, to throwing almost like post surgery Jake Peavy.

 

Did he fall into a bad mechanical funk possibly? Adjust his arm angle from pain possibly? He and the Sox make no injury claim so I take them at their word. Did he have problems with Cooper because Cooper wanted to mess with his delivery, or Shark messed with it against Coops wishes? I know it's all speculation but the drop off in velocity is a troubling fact ad I wonder about control. He is a battler out there though and I don't see him blaming anyone but himself.

[LDF]

Did he fall into a bad mechanical funk possibly? Adjust his arm angle from pain possibly? He and the Sox make no injury claim so I take them at their word. Did he have problems with Cooper because Cooper wanted to mess with his delivery, or Shark messed with it against Coops wishes? I know it's all speculation but the drop off in velocity is a troubling fact ad I wonder about control. He is a battler out there though and I don't see him blaming anyone but himself.

 

excellent post. and right on.

[Dick Allen]

Did he fall into a bad mechanical funk possibly? Adjust his arm angle from pain possibly? He and the Sox make no injury claim so I take them at their word. Did he have problems with Cooper because Cooper wanted to mess with his delivery, or Shark messed with it against Coops wishes? I know it's all speculation but the drop off in velocity is a troubling fact ad I wonder about control. He is a battler out there though and I don't see him blaming anyone but himself.

I am sure they have looked at video from when he was successful and try to find differences. Levine asked him if there was any injury and he said no.

[Jose Abreu]

Remember when Y. Ventura quick-pitched Eaton and it led to that brawl? And Samardzija was in the middle of it all, and most of us loved him for it? How times have changed...

Edited September 18, 2015 by Jose Abreu

[elrockinMT]

Remember when Y. Ventura quick-pitched Eaton and it led to that brawl? And Samardzija was in the middle of it all, and most of us loved him for it? How times have changed...

 

 

well that is right on... it's all about what have you done for me lately, or in baseball the last game, the last inning the last batter...

[Kyyle23]

well that is right on... it's all about what have you done for me lately, or in baseball the last game, the last inning the last batter...

 

Yea, except this is about his entire mostly bad season with a small hot streak

[fathom]

I've heard Bruce Levine and a few others speculate that the reason for Samardija's decline after the trade deadline was his disappointment at not being traded to a contender. That excuses the player and blames the organization - which isn't surprising coming from a Cubs cheerleader. However, it ignores that the Sox got hot at the wrong time and were a possible contender themselves.

 

Could be less about being traded to a contender and more about being traded so no one can offer him a QO this offseason, which greatly decreases his suitors.

[fathom]

Remember when Y. Ventura quick-pitched Eaton and it led to that brawl? And Samardzija was in the middle of it all, and most of us loved him for it? How times have changed...

 

Or the same guy that irritated many of us by picking a fight with Lorenzo Cain the first game of the season just because they were kicking his ass.

[LDF]

Or the same guy that irritated many of us by picking a fight with Lorenzo Cain the first game of the season just because they were kicking his ass.

 

maybe it is me, but i like that fire.

[kitekrazy]

Remember when Y. Ventura quick-pitched Eaton and it led to that brawl? And Samardzija was in the middle of it all, and most of us loved him for it? How times have changed...

 

Not me. I could care less for the macho bulls*** in baseball. Stop getting b**** slapped in the game.

 

[Jose Abreu]

I think this should be the new Soxtalk banner.

 

[greg775]

Remember when Y. Ventura quick-pitched Eaton and it led to that brawl? And Samardzija was in the middle of it all, and most of us loved him for it? How times have changed...

He was good in the brawl but that series unfortunately again set the tone for the season. Sox got swept, Royals took off running and Sox sucked all season long. That's why I'm worried about next year's inevitable 4-9 or 5-8 start. It's gonna be ugly if we have the current staff in place and current core players.

[LDF]

He was good in the brawl but that series unfortunately again set the tone for the season. Sox got swept, Royals took off running and Sox sucked all season long. That's why I'm worried about next year's inevitable 4-9 or 5-8 start. It's gonna be ugly if we have the current staff in place and current core players.

 

is some of this, i agree. this off season, many, imcluding me, never thought the sox would start the way they did. even thou i had a evil thought when the sox lost in spring training to the sCrubs.

 

i am going to stand by my opinion / question, could things have been different with another manager? something was causing this start, beside bad luck.

 

i also believe that maybe another manager would have been able to find ways to stop it before it escalated. the thing i remember most vividly is during a season, they the FO has to conduct special classes for RV on how to manage.

 

the FO didn't help anyone by making that announcement.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think this should be the new Soxtalk banner.

 

 

I'll be honest, Robertson shouldn't be up there anymore either. Sale, Eaton, Abreu?

[LDF]

I'll be honest, Robertson shouldn't be up there anymore either. Sale, Eaton, Abreu?

 

with Sale and Abreu, i 100 % agree.

 

now Eaton is make a great case for that spot. Eaton hitting stats since july has been great, except for aug. however lets think about this, in order to get where he is in his avg, while batting #1 and all the pressure that comes with that. he has been short of spectacular.

 

let me emphasize, batting #1. others where constantly chg in the lineup to help them get started. he batted #1.

 

another one for me would be Q.... look at his stats. 200 innings for the past how many yrs ... but knowing the sox they would put Rodon up there.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'll be honest, Robertson shouldn't be up there anymore either. Sale, Eaton, Abreu?

 

 

Robertson year is pretty much in line with his career averages though. He has 7 blown saves and a 3.39 ERA but he has a FIP of 2.53. His 1.7 fWAR is pretty similar to the rest of his career. His GB% is down, he doesn't leave as many guys on base however, but he is averaging less walks per 9 as well. He's had a pretty good season.