Potential Ventura replacements

[Balta1701]

Makes sense although season tickets only increased minimally per Hahn. Last projections i saw said Sox would draw 1.9 mil based on advanced sales compared to 1.65 last year. But they have to worry about longer term season ticket holders dropping out as well.

When did Hahn say that? I remember the opposite, them stating specifically during the offseason that a season ticket sales boost provided them the revenue they needed to sign Melky.

 

My trick for estimating season ticket sales is usually to look for games in April that no one in their right mind would buy a single game ticket for and compare year to year. The lowest home attendance this year was a game against Cleveland at 13,055. IN 2014 game 2 had an attendance of 10,625. There are probably a few single game tickets sold in both those cases, especially 2015 since that Cleveland game is a little later in in the month, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they sold ~2000+ additional season tickets this year.

[LDF]

I wouldn't be surprised if two / thirds of the crowd this weekend for the Cubs series are made up of Cub fans. And I wouldn't blame Sox fans for staying away given the franchises performance certainly since September 2012.

 

Something else I've noticed which should be troubling to the organization. On the on-line version of the Tribune the past two mornings, not one word, one story is about the Sox on the page that first comes up on the screen.

 

As bad as the Sox are you'd think the "badness" would get some mention. It isn't.

 

The Sox are becoming totally irrelevant in their own city. Not blaming the papers in one sense (although from a journalistic standpoint it shouldn't matter what the team's record is).

 

My guess is that the majority of the season ticket holders who signed up this year after the off season spending spree on veterans in their 30's won't be back.

 

Mark

 

i have waited a long time for this to come up. but here it is.

 

JR threw the fans who had season tickets and brought other tickets, when he criticize the rest of the fan based.

 

WHY !!! why not make a great mention on the fans who spent their hard earned money on tickets based on faith, based on the fact they are sox fans. but noooo the owners didn't treat the fans as a good friend but as....... nothing.

 

so here is a question, why should those fans re-up and buy tickets.

 

[SCCWS]

When did Hahn say that? I remember the opposite, them stating specifically during the offseason that a season ticket sales boost provided them the revenue they needed to sign Melky.

 

My trick for estimating season ticket sales is usually to look for games in April that no one in their right mind would buy a single game ticket for and compare year to year. The lowest home attendance this year was a game against Cleveland at 13,055. IN 2014 game 2 had an attendance of 10,625. There are probably a few single game tickets sold in both those cases, especially 2015 since that Cleveland game is a little later in in the month, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they sold ~2000+ additional season tickets this year.

 

I would guess a little lower but 2,000 is reasonable. Here is a quote from Boyer :

 

Boyer, who has been with the team since coming over from the Bulls in 2004, promises that trend will end this season.

 

"As we stand right now, our season-ticket base is higher than it was at the end of last year," Boyer said.

 

When asked for specifics, Boyer smiled and said, "Higher."

 

If you assume free tickets are the same as last year which is capped at 150,000, the Sox will draw 250,000 more fans than last year. That is about 3,000 per game. So I would assume no more than 1/2 would be season tickets so maybe 1,500.

[greg775]

I wouldn't be surprised if two / thirds of the crowd this weekend for the Cubs series are made up of Cub fans. And I wouldn't blame Sox fans for staying away given the franchises performance certainly since September 2012.

 

Something else I've noticed which should be troubling to the organization. On the on-line version of the Tribune the past two mornings, not one word, one story is about the Sox on the page that first comes up on the screen.

 

As bad as the Sox are you'd think the "badness" would get some mention. It isn't.

 

The Sox are becoming totally irrelevant in their own city. Not blaming the papers in one sense (although from a journalistic standpoint it shouldn't matter what the team's record is).

 

My guess is that the majority of the season ticket holders who signed up this year after the off season spending spree on veterans in their 30's won't be back.

 

Mark

It'll be very embarrassing with all those Cub fans in the park. Sox fans are smart. They've long given up on the season. Cubs are playoff bound right now. Very embarrassing to have the Cell turn into Wrigley South this weekend.

[aryzner]

I wanted Dave Martinez when Ventura was hired so I'm just going to ahead and pick choice #2 in the OP - Dave Martinez.

[SCCWS]

I wanted Dave Martinez when Ventura was hired so I'm just going to ahead and pick choice #2 in the OP - Dave Martinez.

 

I did too but once TB passed over him as well, I assume he has some shortcomings. Next candidate

 

[southsider2k5]

I did too but once TB passed over him as well, I assume he has some shortcomings. Next candidate

 

He and Sandy Alomar have been passed over so many times, you can't help but wonder what fatal flaw teams are seeing, that we aren't. It reminds of the Thibs situation to be honest.

[bmags]

He and Sandy Alomar have been passed over so many times, you can't help but wonder what fatal flaw teams are seeing, that we aren't. It reminds of the Thibs situation to be honest.

 

NBA seems the opposite of NFL to me, where teams are so nervous to hire the unsure thing that they hire retread managers over and over.

 

MLB to me is the middle, so it really is odd to me this Martinez/Alomar business. I wonder if they don't play the game with management well.

 

 

[SCCWS]

He and Sandy Alomar have been passed over so many times, you can't help but wonder what fatal flaw teams are seeing, that we aren't. It reminds of the Thibs situation to be honest.

 

Only difference I do see is that Alomar was in Cleveland and got passed over for Francona who had 2 recent titles. I can understand that. Martinez was in TB and got passsed over by Kevin Cash who had limited experience. So I would lean to Alomar if they were the choices. But as you say, there may be skeletons in their closets.

 

[kitekrazy]

He and Sandy Alomar have been passed over so many times, you can't help but wonder what fatal flaw teams are seeing, that we aren't. It reminds of the Thibs situation to be honest.

 

Maybe they are easy going and don't bench players for bad mistakes, working on fundamentals, ect. Sounds like a fit for this organization. Then again maybe they would want more control in philosophy of how the team plays.

I think this is where managing in the MLB is so different from the other sports. If you have a different philosophy of how to win it's different than the organization it's hard to change that. I doubt they are asked on who to draft.

[Chisoxfn]

He and Sandy Alomar have been passed over so many times, you can't help but wonder what fatal flaw teams are seeing, that we aren't. It reminds of the Thibs situation to be honest.

Sandy Alomar has not been passed over many times. He retired in 2007 and began coaching in instructs in 2008. Got a more regular coaching gig in 2010 and has been a bench coach since 2012. He was a final candidate in Toronto / Chicago (Cubs) / Boston / Cleveland. When he even got chances for some of those jobs he was practically as raw as Ventura. I would not put him in the same camp as Martinez, who was out of baseball much longer prior to restarting coaching. I think Martinez got into coaching in 06.

 

Note: I hadn't realized Martinez, really hadn't even been coaching all that long himself.

[southsider2k5]

Sandy Alomar has not been passed over many times. He retired in 2007 and began coaching in instructs in 2008. Got a more regular coaching gig in 2010 and has been a bench coach since 2012. He was a final candidate in Toronto / Chicago (Cubs) / Boston / Cleveland. When he even got chances for some of those jobs he was practically as raw as Ventura. I would not put him in the same camp as Martinez, who was out of baseball much longer prior to restarting coaching. I think Martinez got into coaching in 06.

 

Note: I hadn't realized Martinez, really hadn't even been coaching all that long himself.

 

So for Alomar that is four times. To me, that is many.

[ChiSox59]

If Hahn can dump Shark, LaRoche, Melky, Robertson, Duke and Lexi I'll be a happy camper for starters.

 

I haven't read much of this thread, but I'd be shocked in Ventura isn't the manager in 2016.

[harfman77]

So for Alomar that is four times. To me, that is many.

 

I wanted him when Robin was hired and still want him to be the next manager. You do not get much more of a baseball man than an Alomar.

[Chisoxfn]

So for Alomar that is four times. To me, that is many.

That is crazy given how inexperienced he was for really 3 of those times. The other time he was passed up for one of the best managers in baseball and a guy with a world series under his belt. Alomar would be on my very short list. Most great managers served an extended time as bench coaches or other coaches (but not all, looking at the list below). If I looked at the top managers in the game today, I'd say you have Maddon / Bochy / Scioscia. You also then have Girardi / Buck Showalter / Francona. Now, lets look at their experience before becoming managers.

 

Maddon - Begin as a minor league manager in 1981; Eventually got into the Angels organization and worked for multiple managers. Served as an interim manager twice (never getting the full time gig) and then worked under Scioscia where he eventually got his start with the Rays. Prior to taking Rays job he also lost out on the Red Sox job in 2004. First hired in 2005 (14 years after, according to Wiki, he first managed a minor league team...for all I know he as a coach before that).

Bochy - Began managing in the minors in 1989; Became 3rd base coach for Padres in 1993 and replaced Rigglemen as the manager in 1995. Bochy was the youngest manager in the league at the time and has essentially been a mainstay every since (Padres to Giants...1 world series appearance with Padres and 3 world series championships with Giants).

Scioscia - Hired by Angels in 1999. Prior to that spent years in Dodgers organization and was so pissed when the Dodgers passed him up in 1999 that he had enough and left the organization everyone presumed he'd manage for (passed up too many times) and took the job with the Angels.

Showalter - Began minor league career in 1985 and then joined the Yankees as a coach in 1990 and eventually took over as the team manager in 1992.

Girardi - Got the Marlins job with limited experience, was fired, then lost out on two jobs. Eventually took the bench coach job of the Yankees and replaced Torre.

Francona - Joined White Sox organization as coach in 1991 and then became 3rd base coach for Tigers in 1996. Took Phillies job in 19987 and was fired after 2000 campaign. Was bench coach for Indians, Rangers, and A's before taking Red Sox job.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

That is crazy given how inexperienced he was for really 3 of those times. The other time he was passed up for one of the best managers in baseball and a guy with a world series under his belt. Alomar would be on my very short list. Most great managers served an extended time as bench coaches or other coaches (but not all, looking at the list below). If I looked at the top managers in the game today, I'd say you have Maddon / Bochy / Scioscia. You also then have Girardi / Buck Showalter / Francona. Now, lets look at their experience before becoming managers.

 

Maddon - Begin as a minor league manager in 1981; Eventually got into the Angels organization and worked for multiple managers. Served as an interim manager twice (never getting the full time gig) and then worked under Scioscia where he eventually got his start with the Rays. Prior to taking Rays job he also lost out on the Red Sox job in 2004. First hired in 2005 (14 years after, according to Wiki, he first managed a minor league team...for all I know he as a coach before that).

Bochy - Began managing in the minors in 1989; Became 3rd base coach for Padres in 1993 and replaced Rigglemen as the manager in 1995. Bochy was the youngest manager in the league at the time and has essentially been a mainstay every since (Padres to Giants...1 world series appearance with Padres and 3 world series championships with Giants).

Scioscia - Hired by Angels in 1999. Prior to that spent years in Dodgers organization and was so pissed when the Dodgers passed him up in 1999 that he had enough and left the organization everyone presumed he'd manage for (passed up too many times) and took the job with the Angels.

Showalter - Began minor league career in 1985 and then joined the Yankees as a coach in 1990 and eventually took over as the team manager in 1992.

Girardi - Got the Marlins job with limited experience, was fired, then lost out on two jobs. Eventually took the bench coach job of the Yankees and replaced Torre.

Francona - Joined White Sox organization as coach in 1991 and then became 3rd base coach for Tigers in 1996. Took Phillies job in 19987 and was fired after 2000 campaign. Was bench coach for Indians, Rangers, and A's before taking Red Sox job.

 

Sandy is on my short list as well along with Gardenhire and Martinez. Just because guys are passed over doesn't mean they suck.

 

 

Im hoping we start to hear some rumblings that he's gone. Need some inside info on this board badly in this thread.

[Balta1701]

Im hoping we start to hear some rumblings that he's gone. Need some inside info on this board badly in this thread.

Literally everything we've heard is how much the organization loves him. Not just the public votes of confidence, but even the statements in private.

[bmags]

Sandy is on my short list as well along with Gardenhire and Martinez. Just because guys are passed over doesn't mean they suck.

 

 

Im hoping we start to hear some rumblings that he's gone. Need some inside info on this board badly in this thread.

 

No, but in Ryne Sandburgs case it did.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Literally everything we've heard is how much the organization loves him. Not just the public votes of confidence, but even the statements in private.

 

I really hope we're not loyal to a fault with Robin. He must go. Maybe they keep some of the staff (I hope not). This staff needs blown up and fresh blood brought in. This team doesn't have the level of focus it needs to succeed.

[Balta1701]

I really hope we're not loyal to a fault with Robin. He must go. Maybe they keep some of the staff (I hope not). This staff needs blown up and fresh blood brought in. This team doesn't have the level of focus it needs to succeed.

If you flip through the last couple pages you'll see me being extremely skeptical that they'll do anything with him. I'm genuinely expecting a contract extension - he's signed through 2016 and I don't think they'll let him got into the season without one. That's consistent with just about everything we've heard from the front office. I feel like the other times they've replaced someone - Ozzie, Bevington, etc., you could see it coming a mile away, everyone sort of agreed "it was time and they waited too long". Maybe fewer people care about this team any more, but it doesn't seem like they've reached that point.

[LDF]

If you flip through the last couple pages you'll see me being extremely skeptical that they'll do anything with him. I'm genuinely expecting a contract extension - he's signed through 2016 and I don't think they'll let him got into the season without one. That's consistent with just about everything we've heard from the front office. I feel like the other times they've replaced someone - Ozzie, Bevington, etc., you could see it coming a mile away, everyone sort of agreed "it was time and they waited too long". Maybe fewer people care about this team any more, but it doesn't seem like they've reached that point.

 

for me, my main short list or favorite is Roger McDowell coach - atl

 

 

[harfman77]

for me, my main short list or favorite is Roger McDowell coach - atl

 

That means you are likely getting rid of Cooper too though, same thing if you brought in Black. I don't see Don working for another pitching coach and having to take input from someone else on what he is doing.

 

I doubt that Robin is fired, but there is a chance that he could get "promoted" to some off the field role where he does something like Thome does.

 

I really want Alomar or someone like Tony Pena but I am sure that if a move is made we will get either PK or Thome.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

If you flip through the last couple pages you'll see me being extremely skeptical that they'll do anything with him. I'm genuinely expecting a contract extension - he's signed through 2016 and I don't think they'll let him got into the season without one. That's consistent with just about everything we've heard from the front office. I feel like the other times they've replaced someone - Ozzie, Bevington, etc., you could see it coming a mile away, everyone sort of agreed "it was time and they waited too long". Maybe fewer people care about this team any more, but it doesn't seem like they've reached that point.

 

There's 0% chance he gets an extension. They've done nothing to prove that he's worthy. Unless this team goes on a historical run to end the season.

[shysocks]

There's 0% chance he gets an extension. They've done nothing to prove that he's worthy. Unless this team goes on a historical run to end the season.

The 2013 team lost 99 games and Robin got an extension in the offseason.

[chitownsportsfan]

The 2013 team lost 99 games and Robin got an extension in the offseason.

 

...says it all...