The White Sox complete Rebuild Discussion Thread

[Quin]

Brilliant, Adam LaRoche has an ops not even close to Semien, but we wouldn't be better off with a 23 year old at DH making close to the league minimum.

 

You probably thought Royce Clayton was a much better defender than Valentin because Jose had a lot more errors. Why do we have advanced metrics if it's 2015 and we're still going by error totals? I guess some on this board know more about baseball than Billy Beane.

 

Because by advanced metrics, Marcus is still pretty bad at defense at short.

[ChiSox59]

With this pitching staff, this team doesn't need a full rebuild. Those that think they do are just b****ing to b****. It is the same group of people everytime.

 

Simply put, the Sox dug themselves a hole the first 2 months of the season that they were unable to dig out of - poor pitching, god awful defense and a historically bad offense will do that. The pitching has rebounded and is now one of the best staffs in MLB this season. The defense has been much, much, much better this summer. The offensive has shown signs, but definitely needs work. IMO, a 3B and C would be my top priorities this offseason, but I don't know how you'll find longterm solutions. The FA class is void in those positions (I would resign Soto, though), so it will require Rick to make a couple trades. I don't think LaRoche is going anywhere, but I do expect him to rebound some next year. He's battled a hand issue all season, which obviously has negatively impacted his bat speed.

 

The biggest issue I see is there are no "quick fixes" to this offense. I think it just needs another chance, which isn't what most here want to see, but I just can't see any other way around it. But a full rebuild is out of the question - and rightfully so.

[Dick Allen]

Because by advanced metrics, Marcus is still pretty bad at defense at short.

And in small sample sizes, he was bad at 3B and bad at 2B when he was a White Sox. The White Sox don't miss the guys they gave up for Samardjiza. We complain about Avi Garcia who is a year younger than Semien, but he only walks 1 less time per 100 plate appearances. Marcus' selectivity has taken a dive.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

I hope Semien gets better. He was a hard worker.

[Kyyle23]

Brilliant, Adam LaRoche has an ops not even close to Semien, but we wouldn't be better off with a 23 year old at DH making close to the league minimum.

 

You probably thought Royce Clayton was a much better defender than Valentin because Jose had a lot more errors. Why do we have advanced metrics if it's 2015 and we're still going by error totals? I guess some on this board know more about baseball than Billy Beane.

 

Ah yes, I am sure you would have been all aboard with Semien at DH this season. I could see it now, all of your posts talking about how it was such a brilliant move to take a 23 year old infielder and turn him into a DH.

 

I also like how you cherry picked the error totals and ignored the other significant offensive numbers that have simply fallen off the table since his hot start.

 

But what do I know, I am no Billy Beane

[Panerista]

With this pitching staff, this team doesn't need a full rebuild. Those that think they do are just b****ing to b****. It is the same group of people everytime.

 

Simply put, the Sox dug themselves a hole the first 2 months of the season that they were unable to dig out of - poor pitching, god awful defense and a historically bad offense will do that. The pitching has rebounded and is now one of the best staffs in MLB this season. The defense has been much, much, much better this summer. The offensive has shown signs, but definitely needs work. IMO, a 3B and C would be my top priorities this offseason, but I don't know how you'll find longterm solutions. The FA class is void in those positions (I would resign Soto, though), so it will require Rick to make a couple trades. I don't think LaRoche is going anywhere, but I do expect him to rebound some next year. He's battled a hand issue all season, which obviously has negatively impacted his bat speed.

 

The biggest issue I see is there are no "quick fixes" to this offense. I think it just needs another chance, which isn't what most here want to see, but I just can't see any other way around it. But a full rebuild is out of the question - and rightfully so.

How many seasons does this or some variation of this have to happen before we start over, though? All but one in the last 9 seasons has been "Well, player X is battling an unseen Y injury and player Z is going to rebound next year and the pitching has been good and the offense has shown signs...". Wake up. They have the worst offense in the AL and now the pitching is going south.

[Dick Allen]

Ah yes, I am sure you would have been all aboard with Semien at DH this season. I could see it now, all of your posts talking about how it was such a brilliant move to take a 23 year old infielder and turn him into a DH.

 

I also like how you cherry picked the error totals and ignored the other significant offensive numbers that have simply fallen off the table since his hot start.

 

But what do I know, I am no Billy Beane

If you were Josh Donaldson for Brett Lawrie would seem like a good idea

[GreenSox]

With this pitching staff, this team doesn't need a full rebuild. Those that think they do are just b****ing to b****. It is the same group of people everytime.

 

Simply put, the Sox dug themselves a hole the first 2 months of the season that they were unable to dig out of - poor pitching, god awful defense and a historically bad offense will do that. The pitching has rebounded and is now one of the best staffs in MLB this season. The defense has been much, much, much better this summer. The offensive has shown signs, but definitely needs work. IMO, a 3B and C would be my top priorities this offseason, but I don't know how you'll find longterm solutions. The FA class is void in those positions (I would resign Soto, though), so it will require Rick to make a couple trades. I don't think LaRoche is going anywhere, but I do expect him to rebound some next year. He's battled a hand issue all season, which obviously has negatively impacted his bat speed.

 

The biggest issue I see is there are no "quick fixes" to this offense. I think it just needs another chance, which isn't what most here want to see, but I just can't see any other way around it. But a full rebuild is out of the question - and rightfully so.

The starting pitching - shark, sale and Quintana- has been good most of the season until the last 2 times through. Meanwhile Rodon still lacks command, control and a third pitch, while using a year of service time. EJ may be ready to join in, but that's TBD.

Sox need an athletic outfielder. That doesn't mean get rid of AVi. nothing wrong with some quality depth for a change.

And of course a 3b and c. It won't happen in one offseason.

[Quin]

The starting pitching - shark, sale and Quintana- has been good most of the season until the last 2 times through. Meanwhile Rodon still lacks command, control and a third pitch, while using a year of service time. EJ may be ready to join in, but that's TBD.

Sox need an athletic outfielder. That doesn't mean get rid of AVi. nothing wrong with some quality depth for a change.

And of course a 3b and c. It won't happen in one offseason.

 

The amusing thing is the White Sox current backup OF is probably one of the most athletic in the game. Thompson's family genes are pretty nuts.

[ChiSox59]

How many seasons does this or some variation of this have to happen before we start over, though? All but one in the last 9 seasons has been "Well, player X is battling an unseen Y injury and player Z is going to rebound next year and the pitching has been good and the offense has shown signs...". Wake up. They have the worst offense in the AL and now the pitching is going south.

 

I am awake. I just said the offense sucked in the post you quoted. 10 days of poor pitching doesn't change my mind about the staff - it still ranks 3rd in the AL in WAR after getting shelled a few times recently.

[Julius]

In my opinion, the sox will not get Chris Sale into the playoffs during the remaining years of his contract. In other words the "3 year plan" will be an utter failure. Once his contract is up, they will let him walk. In turn, the sox brass will be let go and JR sells the team.

 

The sox brass are at fault. People who think that it makes sense to go from Mark Kotsay->Adam Dunn->Adam LaRoche deserved to be canned.

[LDF]

In my opinion, the sox will not get Chris Sale into the playoffs during the remaining years of his contract. In other words the "3 year plan" will be an utter failure. Once his contract is up, they will let him walk. In turn, the sox brass will be let go and JR sells the team.

 

The sox brass are at fault. People who think that it makes sense to go from Mark Kotsay->Adam Dunn->Adam LaRoche deserved to be canned.

 

i remember the sox fluff spin doctoring on how Kotsay was going to be the dh.... all that bull crap. another wasted yr.

[Panerista]

In my opinion, the sox will not get Chris Sale into the playoffs during the remaining years of his contract. In other words the "3 year plan" will be an utter failure. Once his contract is up, they will let him walk. In turn, the sox brass will be let go and JR sells the team.

 

The sox brass are at fault. People who think that it makes sense to go from Mark Kotsay->Adam Dunn->Adam LaRoche deserved to be canned.

They won't move him now, and they shouldn't, but the White Sox will move Chris Sale before the three years are up. I would expect him gone a year and a half into the last three years.

[captain54]

The sox brass are at fault. People who think that it makes sense to go from Mark Kotsay->Adam Dunn->Adam LaRoche deserved to be canned.

 

Specifically, KW..the guy that had all kinds of cash to spend after 2005 , and ran things into the ground. and , is the chief architect for this train wreck.

 

Never ceases to amaze me that the powers that be of the Sox continue to give the wheel to the dude that ran the bus off the road

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict that the Sox will fail to the playoffs as long as Reinsdorf retains ownership

 

 

 

[LDF]

Specifically, KW..the guy that had all kinds of cash to spend after 2005 , and ran things into the ground. and , is the chief architect for this train wreck.

 

Never ceases to amaze me that the powers that be of the Sox continue to give the wheel to the dude that ran the bus off the road

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict that the Sox will fail to the playoffs as long as Reinsdorf retains ownership

 

i don't i do think they will never make the playoff again if KW is still calling the shots.

 

[Balta1701]

i don't i do think they will never make the playoff again if KW is still calling the shots.

That's a rough prediction. It's still baseball. Even poorly put together teams can still get to that 2nd wild card or win a weak division or just get lucky.

[captain54]

That's a rough prediction. It's still baseball. Even poorly put together teams can still get to that 2nd wild card or win a weak division or just get lucky.

 

I'm assuming KW is calling the shots as long as Reinsdorf and Co own the team, and Reinsdorf retains ownership for 5 yrs maximum

 

[LDF]

That's a rough prediction. It's still baseball. Even poorly put together teams can still get to that 2nd wild card or win a weak division or just get lucky.

 

oh i agree with you, but i have the up most confidence that he is gone after this season.

[greg775]

i remember the sox fluff spin doctoring on how Kotsay was going to be the dh.... all that bull crap. another wasted yr.

The Ozzie haters blame Ozzie for Kotsay.

[GreatScott82]

oh i agree with you, but i have the up most confidence that he is gone after this season.

I just don't see KW leaving anytime soon. He is a huge part of this organization's problems, yet JR gave him infinite lives after the 2005 championship. Unless Toronto attempts to bring him over again this winter, I just don't see him leaving. Apparently JR likes lumping two guys to fill one role. You have Gar-Pax with the Bulls and KW-Hahn with our Sox. KW doesn't value prospects and obsesses over highly priced veterans and starting pitching. From what I gathered from Hahn so far is that he does indeed value prospects. Once KW goes, I'm very curious to see how Hahn's approach changes in regards to building up this farm system. Assuming they do NOT go after highly priced free agents this winter (which they shouldn't!), they will have two first round draft picks. (Assuming Shark swims off into free agency). Hopefully with Lauman out of the way? The White Sox can have a tremendous draft in 2016 in the first 5+ rounds.

 

I really want to see Hahn deal some veterans this winter as well. I want to see Hahn truly maximize a return for guys like Quintana or Melky etc... I want 2016 to be 100% committed to stocking up the farm system with prospects AND the main roster with younger talent who can be ready at seasons start.

 

If KW sticks around, they will likely go hard at retaining Shark which would lose that supplemental draft pick. He would probably try and even go after a Cespedes, Upton or even Heyward in Free Agency (which would lose another draft pick) and once again all focus will be off the farm system which they can't afford to be at this point.

 

KW thank you for 2005 and 2008 but its time for you to go!

Edited August 6, 2015 by GreatScott82

[LDF]

The Ozzie haters blame Ozzie for Kotsay.

 

well, with ref to that whole thing, i don't remember a lot from 2005-2012, b/c of my illness. so i will respectfully refrain from saying anything that i do not know.

[lasttriptotulsa]

In my opinion, the sox will not get Chris Sale into the playoffs during the remaining years of his contract. In other words the "3 year plan" will be an utter failure. Once his contract is up, they will let him walk. In turn, the sox brass will be let go and JR sells the team.

 

The sox brass are at fault. People who think that it makes sense to go from Mark Kotsay->Adam Dunn->Adam LaRoche deserved to be canned.

 

The Mark Kotsay thing was on Ozzie. Ozzie wanted more flexibility out of the DH and KW let him make the call. KW wanted to re-sign Thome.

 

And can we please just let Adam Dunn thing go? Sure he was horrible in 2011 and didn't live up to expectations overall, but the fact of the matter is that from 2012-2014 he was 5th in the Majors in HRs and 4th in BBs which are the two things that the Sox signed him to do. This team would look a lot better this year with Adam Dunn on it.

[lasttriptotulsa]

The Ozzie haters blame Ozzie for Kotsay.

 

It's not hating on Ozzie to call a spade a spade. He was given his choice on DH and he chose Kotsay. End of story.

[Kyyle23]

The Ozzie haters blame Ozzie for Kotsay.

 

Ozzie has come out and said it was his decision. So you can go ahead and put your Ozzie shield down

[Panerista]

Ozzie has come out and said it was his decision. So you can go ahead and put your Ozzie shield down

It's really easy to criticize Ozzie for what he did as a manager when he made a mistake. The truth is, what made him great is he took credit for his decisions. I miss that. I miss having a manager, too.