Jose Abreu Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 That is a really mind-blowing stat (OP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 01:45 PM) Flowers sucks, but the difference between him and a typical catcher these days isn't enough to bring out all the disdain. He's not good, but look at the catchers in baseball. There aren't many who are. I was at a game vs. KC a couple Sundays ago, and the Sox were stinking up the joint. a guy a section over put up with everyone sucking except when Flowers struck out he couldn't help himself. It seems to be a theme in Soxville. If Flowers was the Sox biggest problem, Robin would be getting his rotation set for the playoffs right now. It's not the glamorous position it use to be. I'm assuming even talented kids in amateur baseball would be playing different positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) As soon as Soto started playing more, his numbers would decline. Flowers used to be that guy. People couldn't wait for AJ to leave. You literally cannot support that argument in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 04:11 PM) You literally cannot support that argument in any way. Tyler Flowers is the least of the Sox problems. We should focus on 3b, SS, 2b, DH and RF, before we worry about catcher. Especially when he's been league average. Someone tell me what our DH offensive production has been this year, I'm sure it's bottom of the league. Same for 3b. Same for SS. Same for 2b and same for RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Special K @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) Tyler Flowers is the least of the Sox problems. We should focus on 3b, SS, 2b, DH and RF, before we worry about catcher. Especially when he's been league average. Someone tell me what our DH offensive production has been this year, I'm sure it's bottom of the league. Same for 3b. Same for SS. Same for 2b and same for RF. Just to note - replacement level does not equal "league average". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) Just to note - replacement level does not equal "league average". Wikipedia says it does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I always figured Soto was a steroid guy with his strange statistical fluctuations and quick dropoff of productivity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) in my opinion, if the sox had a decent talent up and down the lineup, a lack of a productive catcher would not be that noticeable. That was probably the mindset of Hahn and KW. Unfortunately, since you haven't seen offensive production out of 3B, SS and 2B as well, having a horrible offensive C makes the lineup stick out like a turd in a punch bowl. Flowers is a back up catcher in a starters role because of lack of depth in the farm system. After the 2013 season the Sox could have signed McCann to alleviate this issue but the Yankees gave him stupid money. Under this regime, expect Flowers to be your starting catcher over the next 2 to 3 seasons. It's cool though, Chris Sale loves pitching to him! Edited August 6, 2015 by GreatScott82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Soto and Phegley each have a higher WAR than Sal Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) It was a mistake, but it didn't cost the White Sox any trophies. Finding a really good catcher who can hit and play defense is a trick GMs pretty much luck into. I actually don't think it was a mistake. The Sox would have still sucked the last few years with Pierzynski (who is a really mediocre player anyways) and they needed to find out if they had anything in Flowers. They don't but at least they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Flowers and Soto have done a marginally good job. I would blame our troubles an anemic offense earlier in the year than our catchers. It is difficult for a team to get a good hitting and good defense cathcer in one package, or so it seems. I loved AJP as our catcher and was disappointed he wasn't resigned but the team had down years when he caught too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I think Flowers gets a bad rep more than most because he's been with the organization since 2009. Plus remember when he was acquired, everyone thought the Sox got this great offensive hitter. He's been a huge disappointment, but like a lot of people have said in this thread - he's not the biggest problem for the Sox. There really aren't many "great" catchers in baseball at the moment. Edited August 6, 2015 by CWSpalehoseCWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 05:51 PM) I think Flowers gets a bad rep more than most because he's been with the organization since 2009. Plus remember when he was acquired, everyone thought the Sox got this great offensive hitter. He's been a huge disappointment, but like a lot of people have said in this thread - he's not the biggest problem for the Sox. There really aren't many "great" catchers in baseball at the moment. White Sox catchers collective WAR is higher than the Royals catchers collective WAR, and no ime here would think C is a huge need in KC. I think you hit the nail on the head. There are 3 catchers putting up at least a 2 WAR right now. Edited August 6, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Flowers' offense wouldn't be a problem if he was good defensively. He's not a good defensive catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) Flowers' offense wouldn't be a problem if he was good defensively. He's not a good defensive catcher. He is not terribke and he ranks really high pitch framing. One thing is for sure, once Flowers is gone, pitch framing will start to count around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Flowers isn't the biggest issue by any means but I think it's time to look for something else at that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) Flowers isn't the biggest issue by any means but I think it's time to look for something else at that position. I would say that is fair. I am sure they have been looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I like what I've seen from Saladino...he swings at strikes, is selective has a good swing. I'm hoping he is the answer at 3b... but that's a big need. Also if Avi can't be the guy we need another outfielder. Then there is LaRoche.. The thing is I don't think the Sox are that far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:38 PM) I like what I've seen from Saladino...he swings at strikes, is selective has a good swing. I'm hoping he is the answer at 3b... but that's a big need. Also if Avi can't be the guy we need another outfielder. Then there is LaRoche.. The thing is I don't think the Sox are that far away. I would take a look at Tyler at 2b. He has played that position before. His bat and his defense might be a fit for 2b. Then you target 3b for a guy with pop. We need offense at some place. I would play Tyler at 2b over the other internal options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:42 PM) I would take a look at Tyler at 2b. He has played that position before. His bat and his defense might be a fit for 2b. Then you target 3b for a guy with pop. We need offense at some place. I would play Tyler at 2b over the other internal options. Then you can use Micah Johnson as leadoff or in the two hole as your DH. Pickup Alexei's contract for next year, find a third baseman and right-fielder (you can use Avi in a trade for a third baseman). Now the 2016 team is starting to take shape. Back to catchers—one reason catching is at a premium is that there are more teams now than back in the 1960s. The same number of really good catchers have to be spread across 30 teams. The position is universally thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 07:42 PM) I would take a look at Tyler at 2b. He has played that position before. His bat and his defense might be a fit for 2b. Then you target 3b for a guy with pop. We need offense at some place. I would play Tyler at 2b over the other internal options. I agree but I would not switch this season. Sanchez's average is trending up and Saladino's is trending down. With each of them playing regularly, the Sox should get an idea of how their offense looks by Sept. I think each will settle around .240 hitters but Sanchez will be the better fielder and Saladino will have a little more speed and pop. Agree both cannot play regularly next year based on their offense so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 07:04 PM) I agree but I would not switch this season. Sanchez's average is trending up and Saladino's is trending down. With each of them playing regularly, the Sox should get an idea of how their offense looks by Sept. I think each will settle around .240 hitters but Sanchez will be the better fielder and Saladino will have a little more speed and pop. Agree both cannot play regularly next year based on their offense so far. not sure how you could conclude that saladino isn't good enough of offense.. he doesn't have many PA's. I see a lot of potential in his bat... he has a good eye and a good swing with some pop. He has hit over .300 in the minors a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 7, 2015 -> 12:04 AM) I agree but I would not switch this season. Sanchez's average is trending up and Saladino's is trending down. With each of them playing regularly, the Sox should get an idea of how their offense looks by Sept. I think each will settle around .240 hitters but Sanchez will be the better fielder and Saladino will have a little more speed and pop. Agree both cannot play regularly next year based on their offense so far. nice post, but for sanchez to reach 240, that will be ok with me. considering his avg this whole season. that means he had to have a great hitting streak to reach that avg. either way, i really like his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 11:38 PM) I like what I've seen from Saladino...he swings at strikes, is selective has a good swing. I'm hoping he is the answer at 3b... but that's a big need. Also if Avi can't be the guy we need another outfielder. Then there is LaRoche.. The thing is I don't think the Sox are that far away. can you envision him hitting something like 15 hrs and a avg of 270?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (BigFinn @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 11:59 PM) Then you can use Micah Johnson as leadoff or in the two hole as your DH. Pickup Alexei's contract for next year, find a third baseman and right-fielder (you can use Avi in a trade for a third baseman). Now the 2016 team is starting to take shape. Back to catchers—one reason catching is at a premium is that there are more teams now than back in the 1960s. The same number of really good catchers have to be spread across 30 teams. The position is universally thin. i can see avi being moved to the dh role and another bat for rf. i know, what to do with adam laroche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.