Quin Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/08/t...-ozzie-guillen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Interesting insight. One quote left me with some befuddlement. The only person who can do that is Guillen, and he doesn’t seem to be helping himself in that area. Was this line directed at something specific? The last reference to something coming out of Guillen's mouth that was controversial was with regards to the 2012 season and the Castro remarks. This quote implies to me something happening since then but I'm not sure if I'm just reading that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 12:49 PM) Interesting insight. One quote left me with some befuddlement. Was this line directed at something specific? The last reference to something coming out of Guillen's mouth that was controversial was with regards to the 2012 season and the Castro remarks. This quote implies to me something happening since then but I'm not sure if I'm just reading that wrong? It seems to me it wasn't too long ago he was pretty openly campaigning to get the White Sox job back when we already had a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Nice story by Dan. Here's a little more historical info on Ozzie and his "situation": He was considered “the face of the franchise” for eight seasons but on this night (September 26, 2011) after a 4-3 win over Toronto, manager Ozzie Guillen announced he was leaving after owner Jerry Reinsdorf agreed to let him out of the final year of his contract. Guillen, who was the 1985 A.L. Rookie of the Year with the White Sox, won the World Series in 2005 and also got the club into the playoffs in 2008. He had five winning seasons in the eight years as manager and was named Manager of the Year for his work in 2005. In that magical season of 2005, “Ozzie-ball” resulted in the Sox getting off to the best start in their history and with a perfect blend of pitching, speed, power and the ability to execute the fundamentals the Sox were in first place from wire to wire. Then they blitzed through the post season putting together an 11-1 record that was the third best post season record in baseball history. Guillen’s passion and enthusiasm for the franchise was unparalleled but at times he was his own worst enemy. Over his final years in Chicago he became increasingly thin-skinned and defensive when criticism was directed his way and he lashed out at Sox fans on more than one occasion. Among his famous rants against the fans were one where he said that they could ‘‘turn off their TVs and stop watching the game if they don’t like the [bleep]ing lineup’’ and another in May 2011 where he claimed Sox fans would not remember him “as soon as you leave the ballpark they don’t care about you. They don’t. The monuments, the statues…they pee on them when they get drunk.” On the afternoon of the day he left the team Guillen told reporters that he would not want to return to fulfill his 2012 contract unless he got an extension and more money. Ozzie’s relationship with G.M. Kenny Williams also deteriorated over the final few years because the two men appeared to have different viewpoints over how the roster should be constructed and the style to which the Sox should play. Guillen’s family didn’t help the situation with social media comments derogatory to Williams. Many felt when Ozzie was hired in November 2003 that he was the right man for the right team at the right time and for a few years he was. Unfortunately the manager with the longest tenure since Al Lopez let some personal foibles override a good situation and it was best for all that a parting of the ways took place. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Great stuff by Dan. I have a couple of his books, and am thrilled that he is writing for SoxNet. Also nice addition to the story Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 great stuff. a question.... how much of a factor was ozzie's kid being involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I would also add that beginning in 2007, he got a lot more input into personnel (and he always had some), and that was disastrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 07:10 PM) Guillen, who was the 1985 A.L. Rookie of the Year with the White Sox, won the World Series in 2005 and also got the club into the playoffs in 2008. He had five winning seasons in the eight years as manager and was named Manager of the Year for his work in 2005. Five winning seasons in eight years. Not half bad! I'd bring him back with a clause he's fired if a committee of owner, GM and 2-3 others deem any of his public statements socially unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) Five winning seasons in eight years. Not half bad! I'd bring him back with a clause he's fired if a committee of owner, GM and 2-3 others deem any of his public statements socially unacceptable. As a White Sox fan I found his opening campaigning for a contract extension with a year left on his deal and his team collapsing, then opening courting another job during the season WAY more troubling then any of his personal political views. His political views don't concern me nearly as much as his penchant for putting his own self in front of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) great stuff. a question.... how much of a factor was ozzie's kid being involved. You mean "kids". Let's put it this way...they didn't help the dynamic. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) As a White Sox fan I found his opening campaigning for a contract extension with a year left on his deal and his team collapsing, then opening courting another job during the season WAY more troubling then any of his personal political views. His political views don't concern me nearly as much as his penchant for putting his own self in front of the team. Very true. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've always said that winning the World Series so quickly was the best and worst thing to happen to Ozzie. Winning that title inflated his already massive ego to limits where he just couldn't get over himself, and that led to his downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) As a White Sox fan I found his opening campaigning for a contract extension with a year left on his deal and his team collapsing, then opening courting another job during the season WAY more troubling then any of his personal political views. His political views don't concern me nearly as much as his penchant for putting his own self in front of the team. I think he was disappointed when testing Reinsdorf playing favorites that Kenny won. Part of me also thinks Ozzie new how bad the organization is with player development and probably couldn't deal with this current mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 05:09 PM) I think he was disappointed when testing Reinsdorf playing favorites that Kenny won. Part of me also thinks Ozzie new how bad the organization is with player development and probably couldn't deal with this current mess. Well, Ozzie is also terrible at making rookies feel wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 10, 2015 -> 04:42 PM) Well, Ozzie is also terrible at making rookies feel wanted. Most of professional baseball didn't want them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I wonder if deep down Ozzie cares about how his career ended. He did get a WS ring as a manager and unless he's a moron with his money he should be set financially and his offspring are set forever financially. I mean it's pretty weird to have your mouth cost you your career. But that was it. If Ozzie shut up like Robin does he'd have managed forever. Not with the Sox probably, but he'd have the WS ring thus would have been employed til 70. I wonder if he cares or if he's glad he was the Mouth that Roared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 01:25 AM) I wonder if deep down Ozzie cares about how his career ended. He did get a WS ring as a manager and unless he's a moron with his money he should be set financially and his offspring are set forever financially. I mean it's pretty weird to have your mouth cost you your career. But that was it. If Ozzie shut up like Robin does he'd have managed forever. Not with the Sox probably, but he'd have the WS ring thus would have been employed til 70. I wonder if he cares or if he's glad he was the Mouth that Roared. Ozzie's ego won't let him not care. It is why he can't walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 01:08 PM) Ozzie's ego won't let him not care. It is why he can't walk away. that is funny and it is the truth. i never look at it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 You want to know why Ozzie will never work in a public facing job for the White Sox again? Read. Ozzie Jr is publicly trashing all over the White Sox organization. https://www.facebook.com/chris.rongey/posts...153152754101298 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) You want to know why Ozzie will never work in a public facing job for the White Sox again? Read. Ozzie Jr is publicly trashing all over the White Sox organization. https://www.facebook.com/chris.rongey/posts...153152754101298 No content there for me? Did he delete it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 14, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) No content there for me? Did he delete it? I don't know how well this will copy from facebook, but here goes. Chris Rongey 22 hrs · Chicago, IL · This is a serious question, Herb Lawrence, and I think you're the one to answer it: How much hell would Robin Ventura and Don Cooper be catching right now for not teaching one of their starters how to hold runners? Like Comment Share Herb Lawrence and 19 others like this. Ed Mlakar Why does it matter? Managers have nothing to do with how they play, right? 22 hrs · Like · 2 Chris Rongey That's kind of the point I'm making. 22 hrs · Like · 7 John Graces Apparently none. Abreu almost blew the game for us by not holding the runner to third in the ninth last night before completing the play 22 hrs · Edited · Like · 3 Jim Moskal Well all 3 White Sox fans in Chicago would be pissed off! 22 hrs · Like · 2 John Graces Excuse me, I take offense to that. There are four of us. 22 hrs · Like · 6 Jim Moskal Sorry 22 hrs · Like · 2 Ed Mlakar So you were thinking of me when you posted this? Lol what about guys who can't hit the cutoff man, who works with them on that? 22 hrs · Like John Graces lol no problem 22 hrs · Like Stephen Piff Remember when everybody used to run on AJ?? 22 hrs · Like Andrew James #FireRobin 22 hrs · Like · 2 Jon Greenberg "Listen chief..." 22 hrs · Like · 1 John Graces I think the point is that, unlike a sport like football, a manager in baseball has minimal affect on the play of his players on a play to play basis. That's why I keep saying that firing of managers is a move to appease a fan base more than anything else 22 hrs · Like · 4 Ed Mlakar That's bulls*** and Rongey knows its bulls*** too. I don't even know why he keeps up this argument lol 21 hrs · Like · 1 Chris Rongey Because I get it. And apparently you don't. 21 hrs · Like · 4 Herb Lawrence Managers are the scapegoat until the baseball media tell the public that they are smart. See Yost, Ned 21 hrs · Edited · Like · 9 Van Swanson I think the reaction is predictable if this one on the south side. I don't like it but I think at this point its something they needed to address in the off season and spring training. 21 hrs · Like Chris Rongey The guy that was just in town (Scioscia) does the exact SAME kind of stuff Ventura does, yet he's regarded as a good manager. People are so full of s*** about this topic. 21 hrs · Like · 7 John Graces Exactly. How exactly does a manager take a player hitting .209, say something magical to him, and make him a .350 hitter? You can tell them to do this that or the other thing until you turn blue, and all it will do is make that hitter overthink. Same with defense. 21 hrs · Edited · Like Chris Rongey He doesn't. 21 hrs · Like Seán Walsh So, seriously then... I played HS baseball, I coached Little League, the double shift is not all that complicated. Why can't I manage in the Major League. It clearly doesn't matter, right? 21 hrs · Like · 1 Ed Mlakar Chris, I get it. MLB teams pay managers to sit around and do nothing because they have money to burn, right? By the way, you never answered my question. Who teaches players how to hit the cutoff man? If they haven't learned by the time they get to the big leagues, they aren't going to teach themselves 21 hrs · Like · 1 Eric Jozefowski Joe Maddon and Robin Ventura have nearly the exact same laid back style but Robin gets crushed and everyone crushes for Maddon 21 hrs · Like · 3 Van Swanson You answered your question Ed, they should have learned that stuff way before getting to the big leagues. 21 hrs · Like · 4 Ed Mlakar Ventura isn't Scoscia. Scoscia is bush league. Ventura isn't. 21 hrs · Like John Graces Baseball is a game of reacting to a small ball moving at incredible speeds. Completely reactive. That's why a guy who gets a hit 1/3 of the time is considered a good hitter. That's part of why managers don't have much of an effect. Their bag of tricks ...See More 21 hrs · Like · 3 Ed Mlakar Van, I get that. But there are plenty of guys who are in the big leagues who haven't learned that skill. My point is, Rongey's attitude is that all mlb players know what they know and do what they do regardless of the manager. When he knows damn well that managers are there working with the players on stuff like that. That's why I don't get that logic 21 hrs · Like Van Swanson Jon Lester cant throw to first so does that mean Boston, Oakland and the Cubs have coaches that all suck and should be fired? No, it means those teams deal with it and his stuff is good enough to get around it. No coach or manager can control what a player does once he has the ball or is in the batters box at that point its the players.... 18 hrs · Edited · Like · 1 John Graces No, Chris's argument is that, by the time a player reaches the majors, it's way too late to teach those skills. They have years and years of bad habits to overcome. Doubly for those from Latin American countries where they tend to come to the majors at a later age, thus with even longer periods of time doing things the wrong way. 21 hrs · Edited · Like Seán Walsh @ Herb, you mean he gets smart when he wins a pennant? 21 hrs · Like · 1 Van Swanson If a team signs a latin player and rushes them the the bigs thats on them, again, they learn how to play around their shortcomings... 21 hrs · Like Van Swanson If there is a player who keeps having brain cramps on the fundamentals then the manager has to make a choice whether to sit him or play him, that's why they call it managing and not teaching. 21 hrs · Like Seán Walsh Let's quantify my aforementioned baseball knowledge at 35. Let's put the average major league manager at 90. Isn't it possible that some managers are 95+? 21 hrs · Edited · Like TommyHawk Barger Next thing Herb Lawrence is going to explain how coach Beckman has no effect on how illinois is going to do this year 21 hrs · Like · 1 John Graces Van, sure, but what big contact guys ever really get benched or sent down. It's too expensive to do something like that. So that's one tool in the Manager's Utility Belt that he can almost never use on any but the most inexperienced players or those wh...See More 21 hrs · Edited · Like Van Swanson Abreu play last night, I'm sure someone said something to him about it but that's all they can do, if he does it again, when does he become accountable, he had the ball, he made the choice....if Ventura pulls him in those type of games then he is bad for taking out their best bat. 21 hrs · Like John Graces Exactly my point. You always hear people say to bench this player or that. Are you going to be the one to explain to upper management why the player being paid $7 million is sitting on the bench? 21 hrs · Like Van Swanson John...then the front office or GM make the decision to move the player. They don't get sent down because likely are are out of options and not going to sit because their positives outweigh their negatives.... 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Why do you care Chris? Managers have no impact and neither does Robin. 21 hrs · Like · 2 Chris Rongey Read above. 21 hrs · Like Joel Gadawski Why is this important, please tell us more!!!!! 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli So they should save the money and get rid of all the coaches. 21 hrs · Like Jeff Mamola Coops time is up...Ventura should have been gone at the conclusion of last season..this season is a total loss...hopefully Reinsdorf is fed up with the whole operation and will make coaching changes asap... 21 hrs · Like · 1 Carl Jeppson Chris, who has a better offensive team the Cubs or Sox? The Cubs have 1 player who has hit well. 2 with Schwarber who is new. The rest of the team has hitters below .250 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli I bet Robin i here for at lest 2 more years 21 hrs · Like Chris Rongey Carl, Sox and Cubs are similar in OPS but the Cubs have scored more runs. 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Actually Cubs pitching has really carried them. Once they face the Cards it'll be finished quickly 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Another argument could be made that you could be a general manager of a baseball team and have no baseball aback ground just really good degrees. 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Like Hahn? 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli I do however want to see a bigger body of work before judging Hahn. I still don't believe he's his own man. 21 hrs · Like Jeff Mamola Bring back Ozzie...at least for the rest of this terrible...maybe he would inject a little life in this dead team 21 hrs · Like Carl Jeppson The run differential can be misleading. Before getting Tulo and Price, Toronto was 2nd in MLB in run differential. I think we have to admit that Arrieta has been as good this season as Sale. Lester over Shark... and give the advantage 3-5 to the Cubs pitching staff who I don't think are all that good.. 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Jeff I doubt it. You'd never see a guy like Thompson or Rodon get a chance 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR And am not making this argument about Bringing anyone back 21 hrs · Like · 1 Rob Mangiameli he didn't like playing young guys 21 hrs · Like Carl Jeppson Toronto has a ridiculous offense. They now have an ace to get them to the World Series 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR To be a GM I think you need have player development knowledge as well as scouting. Not just all contract negotiations skills 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Ozzie JR you're old man will manage again. but I doubt with the Whie Sox. I think he's moved on and would serve better managing a veteran team 21 hrs · Like Jeff Mamola At least there would be a spark of life..Ventura puts me (and obviously his team) asleep 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I don't see white sox either I just don't as a fan 21 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR And younger guys you are expected to loose and you have to make that the mind se 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Set 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR He never had a young ties in Chciago 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli I think he'll end up in the N.L once again. 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR The fact Rongey compared robin to mike social is insane 21 hrs · Like · 1 Jeff Mamola No comparison the Angels manager 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR It's funny I don't ever remember post like this from him defending Ozzie or Greg walker. 21 hrs · Like · 1 Jeff Mamola to 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Or anyone in the media saying managers don't matter 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Does anyone else? 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Mike Soscia has had success with less on the team, multiple playoff apearances 21 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Robin right now has the legacy of being the worst manager in Sox history. That is a stone cold fact 21 hrs · Like Tom Sheehan I actually thought Ozzie deflected pressure of "young" or inexperienced guys. They got to just play and people talked about ozzie. 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR If his name was bob walk would he still be the manager? 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR That's a question you should be asking? 21 hrs · Like John Graces Rob, that is not a fact. Look at win percentages and there are plenty of managers in White Sox history with worse records 21 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR But hey baby hawk has all the answers 21 hrs · Like · 1 Tom Sheehan And by inexperienced I refer to not many guys on the sox played for good teams/playoff teams. 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR There has to be worst managers in sox history there has to be 20 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Look it up Bevington has a better record Tanner had a better Record 20 hrs · Like John Graces Of course there are. Someone it's letting their emotions get away from them. My argument has never been that managers don't matter, and if you're honest with yourself you can admit that neither has Rongey's. The argument is that, on a day to day basis ...See More 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Comment like this is why the whole thing is insane. Sorry but it's delusional. 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR "That three-game series against Kansas City, you could take us talent for talent, we're probably a little better than Kansas City. They execute better than we do. . .when they get a man on second, they get him over to third, and then they probably get him in. When they got a man on second and third and nobody out, they'll get at least one, and most of the time, two." 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Those are the things that are said at games at its crazy 20 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli http://www.baseball-almanac.com/mgrtmcw.shtml Chicago White Sox Managers (1904 - 2015) by Baseball Almanac The Chicago White Sox managers with wins, losses, winning percentages, finishes and games behind the leader data. baseball-almanac.com 20 hrs · Like John Graces Fregosi is only better by six percentage points, Kessinger it's worse by 21 percentage. There are others that are even worse 20 hrs · Like Rob Mangiameli Over a 4 year period no. Only Lou Fonseca comes close 20 hrs · Like Steve Daly Rongey doesn't understand what is taught in the MILB level. The only reason I do is I have a nephew(and a lot of his HS and College teammates) playing in AA. These kids are not equipped with coaches that work individually with them on things they are s...See More 20 hrs · Like · 3 Ed Mlakar Jr, if your dad saw this thread, I think he'd wanna do a Mike North on Rongey lol 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Steve good very good point. 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Hey already those he named him baby hawk 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Ozzie works for ESPN and they all lol at this theory 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ed Mlakar Absolutely right Steve 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar Who's baby Hawk? 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Chris Rongey is called baby hawk 20 hrs · Like · 2 Ozzie Guillen JR Was given that nickname 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar Lol 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR In the Guillen house you say baby hawk it's Chris lol 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR I follow the sox as a fan and dad does for work but to think his a fan deep down inside lol 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar I wanna hear Chris talk White Sox next year assuming he's not defecting to WLS before I agree he is baby Hawk lol 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar No matter what, I'm sure your dad will always be a fan on some level 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Yes I agree just like me 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR I don't root against them 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Ever 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR But I get mad when stuff goes bad or not to the level its suppose to be. 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar I get you. Probably been mad alot the last few years lol 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar I always believed that Reinsdorf was made to choose between KW and your dad. He chose wrong 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR He always chooses his GM 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Did it with tony Larussa did it with Phil jackson 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR But everything was meant to be 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar Wow. Never thought of it that way... 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Everyone is happy 20 hrs · Like Ed Mlakar Yup everything happens for a reason. Happy is all that matters...Sox fans aren't though lol 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR No we are not. Cubs are getting hot 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR Not good 20 hrs · Like John Graces I really never understood firing your dad. I mean, I know why it probably happened, but that doesn't mean I understand why he was undermined. I was always a fan since I was a kid going to Old Comiskey, but I also don't understand calling to fire Robin because it's not like the tools he's been given are all together that great 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Well technically not fired but traded 20 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR Lol 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Or allowed to talk to another team 20 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I don't say fire robin at all. I think someone should be responsible for giving him this team. Someone if not him someone else. 20 hrs · Like John Graces That is true. Now, I can't speak for Rongey, but the way I see it, the baseball manager does not have the freedom to do what needs to be done to help a struggling team. A manager can't bench your free agent acquisition because then that's millions wast...See More 19 hrs · Like John Graces I didn't say you did say fire Robin, just part of the overall conversation. 19 hrs · Like John Graces Unfortunately in a game where pitches come at you regularly at speeds of 90mph, the biggest factor can become luck along with reflexes. Those are two things that can't be taught. Ozzie Guillen JR That's not true a manager with pull and respected can bench who ever he wants hence I still critique my father for playing Adam over and over 19 hrs · Like · 1 John Graces There are very few managers in today's game with that type of pull. 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I think overall it's crazy how no ones head roled look at Detroit they fired maybe one of the best GM on the decade 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly John, RV has just done some basic things bad. Last night was the latest example... Not having LaRoach in for defense in the 9th was a example. 19 hrs · Like John Graces Once again, a move done to appease the fan base. Gotta look like we're doing SOMETHING so lets fire someone 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly The fact is RV as great a white sox as he always will be never should of been handed the top job without any experience what so ever. 19 hrs · Edited · Like Ozzie Guillen JR But hey this might be the new wave of baseball and manager don't matter just like crazy number guys. Am out of the game. Am old schoonbecuase the way I was raised and watch the game. So maybe this is the new wave 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Now am just another fan with a fantasy team and a scoring degree lol 19 hrs · Like John Graces Exactly. Even just looking at the personalities of managers and you see they're all vanilla. 19 hrs · Edited · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Siting at his desk listening to sports radio making the moves for that nights game 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Players are vanilla lol. Soft anyone who thinks his team is Hard is nuts 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly Junior.... How do you know the make up of this team? Are you around them enough to make that assumption 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I say other then sale and shark 19 hrs · Like John Graces By vanilla I mean soft spoken with very little personality. I loved Robin as a player but he has no passion. The manager position has been turned into a position with no teeth. 19 hrs · Like John Graces That's across baseball. The era of a manager who could push a good team and make them into a great team has unfortunately passed. 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly I don't know about that John.... What makes you think that? I'm not saying you're wrong... 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Yes I agree that's what jim leyland and tony la Russa talked about at a dinner a few months back. 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR It's crazy 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I watch enough games and know enough guys and my overall guess. There are a few guys in this team who are all about eye wash 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Abreu is a hell of a player but I think being a leader has been hard language barrier 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I had this team winning 74 games 80 at best 19 hrs · Like John Graces A manager that can push a team to become significantly better needs to have the personality of someone who people can follow (not necessarily boisterous) and the knowledge of the game to back it up. More and more, partially because of General Managers ...See More 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly Jose shouldn't be in the spot to be a leader because of his limited time in the USA. I think the skip sets the tone up and down the roster starting 2nd week of Feb. That's what your pop Was so good at for the 1st 4 or 5 years. The last 2 were a abortion 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Ozzie senior had them way way higher so lol 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I put this season more on the GM and the marketing department then on robin and coaches 19 hrs · Like · 1 Steve Daly That's up with the dumbest things I've heard to say Junior 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR This team was over hyped from day one maybe robin did not have the talent to compete 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Just like Ozzie two lost teams 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Difference he new it and showed got his ass traded lol Ozzie Guillen JR I think kW is a great baseball mind I am still waiting for Rick to shine or fall and see what he has. So far not a good start 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly Look at this way...the white sox are still in it... Do I think they will make it. No. But there have been at least 4 games that the bench has blown on top of the 15 or so the players pissed away 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR They are still in what? 19 hrs · Like John Graces I agree with the GM portion to a point. A team is only as good as the players the team can get or develop, and our issue is one of development. We're starting to see a shift with players now coming up through the farm system, but for too long we'd spen...See More 19 hrs · Like · 1 Steve Daly The 2nd WC 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I would have missed with Dunn to 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR But why singed Adam eaton to multiple years? 19 hrs · Like John Graces Ozzie, unfortunately some people are still under the delusion that we can get that wild card spot. Yeah, it looks like it's right there, but we have to be consistently good while too many teams play consistently badly to even have a chance. 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly I got a good idea... Because Eaton is a real good ball player 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly His slow start killed us, but he's going to be real good 19 hrs · Like John Graces And Eaton is part of the reason we've played better in the last month, but it's not enough with a back end of the order that seems to be decorative. 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR They have no chance at that. That extra game wild card is such a mirage that is so hard to get. No chance to many teams involved 19 hrs · Like · 2 John Graces We got lulled into a sense of confidence because we got seven wins against two of the four worst teams in the AL. 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly I wouldn't say no chance at all... it's baseball and things go one way or another quickly. We all know that. I doubt they can dig out of the hole the dug, but who knows. 19 hrs · Like John Graces Yes we've had some decent showings against some better teams, but we can't beat KC and the Angels are a team in freefall 19 hrs · Like John Graces Well, maybe not freefall, but they're on their way down the standings 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Hope your right now a fan. 19 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR I just can't stand Cubs fan thinks they clinched the playoffs already 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly JR I'm sure your ''eye wash" comment was directed at our CF.... I disagree 110% if it was. I see him being a difference maker on this team for some time to come 19 hrs · Like John Graces I will always be a fan, but honestly I've reached a point where I have stopped paying any attention to the team that pays in that toilet on Addison 19 hrs · Like Steve Daly I don't hold any hard feeling toward the Cubbie fans. They are on a run and they should be having fun with it. That being said, I'm looking forward to whatever curse like situation ends their season 19 hrs · Like John Graces It's too much work to care about what the Cubs do. I'll just care about what my team does from now on. Yeah, I don't want the Scrubs to win the World Series, but otherwise I think about them very little 19 hrs · Edited · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR I agree on that. And let's hope Adam probes me wrong and that eye Wash was for a few guys. 18 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR If he turns out to be good like he has shown lights off I will be the first one to say good singed even if I taking his tiring. Lol 18 hrs · Like · 1 Steve Daly I think the biggest move that Hahn has pulled off since the season has started is getting Doug Laumann out of the big seat in the scouting department. I hope the new kid is more up to speed with today's game. 18 hrs · Like Van Swanson Wait....you want Adam to probe you wrong? 18 hrs · Edited · Like · 1 John Graces lol sorry Ozzie, but that's hilarious 18 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR Eaton why is it hilarious? 18 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR Steve right on point finally 18 hrs · Like John Graces The probe joke 18 hrs · Like · 1 Ozzie Guillen JR Typos on the iPhone get you but yes 18 hrs · Like Ozzie Guillen JR Prove sorry the other way sounded way to creepy 18 hrs · Like · 2 Chuck Babica Steve it's amazing how the Cubbie fans are coming out of the wordwork. Now I know why I've held such disdain for them for so long. The arrogance from most of them is nauseating. 16 hrs · Like Steve Jankowski Out of the woodwork? Cubs fans have been getting ripped by Sox fans for showing up and supporting a bad team for years. Now that the Cubs are good it's "woodwork". Sorry chief! Not true 15 hrs · Like Chris Rongey Ozzie Guillen JR, you have either a terrible memory, or it's selective. Either way, you need to get it together. I said the same things about the manager when your dad was here as I'm saying now. You're entitled to your own odd opinions, but not your own facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Wow he just goes on and on and on. I didnt know he had such a beef with Rongey. Ozzie Jr will pretty much be the icing on the cake for Oz to never get another job anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 14, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) Wow he just goes on and on and on. I didnt know he had such a beef with Rongey. Ozzie Jr will pretty much be the icing on the cake for Oz to never get another job anywhere. Very quickly I saw him take down Jerry, Hahn, Ventura, Eaton, Dunn, the coaching staff, and a few other unnamed players that I have a guess at who they are (I think the eye black comment was actually for Avi). If you want your dad to find another job, this isn't the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Chris Rongey needs to go. I really hope WLS does not bring him over. He brings zero knowledge to pre and post game analysis and just states the obvious. I find it strange that the things he argues are completely out of left field in an attempt to support Robin as a manager. He claims that players cannot be taught new things at the MLB level, that they are what they are. I find this logic ridiculous. if this is the case, and it is all on the players, why doesn't he ever blame Hahn or KW for putting this crappy team together? In regards to Ozzie JR. He will say anything to make his old man look good, even if it's at the expense of other people. In summary... Rongey and Ozzie JR need to go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 14, 2015 -> 11:53 PM) Chris Rongey needs to go. I really hope WLS does not bring him over. He brings zero knowledge to pre and post game analysis and just states the obvious. I find it strange that the things he argues are completely out of left field in an attempt to support Robin as a manager. He claims that players cannot be taught new things at the MLB level, that they are what they are. I find this logic ridiculous. if this is the case, and it is all on the players, why doesn't he ever blame Hahn or KW for putting this crappy team together? In regards to Ozzie JR. He will say anything to make his old man look good, even if it's at the expense of other people. In summary... Rongey and Ozzie JR need to go away. this is pathetic, it is like a celebrity who needs to remind the world he is still alive. ref the first part, i agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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