2015-2016 NBA Thread

[Chisoxfn]

The other part of this to not ignore though is...with Butler under contract and the young guys the Bulls do have, plus the general weakness in the East that will keep them in the playoffs yearly, they're going to be able to convince themselves that they're only 1 piece away and that they don't need to do a major overhaul. They might not be wrong either, but then they'll just keep trying to acquire that "one last piece" and whiffing on it or having it not be enough. (Which does sound vaguely familiar).

This is probably true. No idea how it pans out. Somehow I just think Rose is sitting back going, see Jimmy, you aren't the star....I'll keep playing meh and prove that point and than one day I'll flip my switch and bam (I'm not saying rose could actually do it).

[Chisoxfn]

Wilbon's take is pretty good. About their lack of attention and I agree it has to come down to coaching. That said, it was a problem a year ago. Will be curious how they respond after the extended time off.

 

[Chisoxfn]

On a sidenote, if things do go south, my presumption is Gar is gone. I think Pax job is probably safe and he'd be allowed to bring in a new front office person.

[Jenksismyhero]

at this point I dont really blame the players for not caring. last year was a front office/coach divorce that was extremely public, and they put in what looks like a puppet figurehead who is starting to look out of his league.

 

Im not gonna say it cannot get better, but this is a s*** show right now

 

This is nonsense. The players are just as much to blame for this mess as the front office and Hoiberg. Losing to teams like Charlotte and Brooklyn is inexcusable. I don't care if Hoiberg's rotations are bad or he doesn't use TO's appropriately or whatever. The Bulls' roster is heads and shoulders above those teams no matter who they put out.

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I dont know. Under the Thibs years I would have agreed with you every time but this year is different. It actually feels like it is on the verge of being an absolute full out disaster where they may be under .500.

 

Not only is it the losses that they are taking but they look totally confused. They all have their own agendas out there on the court. Rose thinks he is someone he is not. Butler actually thinks he is the superstar which he is not. They dont play together. They dont play for each other. They dont buy into the new coach. They arent a happy team. They are all looking to the future when they are not a part of the Bulls other than Jimmy. Hoiberg is in over his head. This is a bad situation that I unfortunately only see it getting worse. This is Trestman 2.0 NBA version.

 

I agree with the bolded parts of this. There's clearly an issue with these guys playing together. That's on Hoiberg to fix and at least he's trying with a variety of different rotations. A lot of these games have come down to energy and some good ol' fashioned TWTW.

[Jenksismyhero]

Wilbon's take is pretty good. About their lack of attention and I agree it has to come down to coaching. That said, it was a problem a year ago. Will be curious how they respond after the extended time off.

 

Agreed. This problem is not new. It was there last year. I think we all bought into the hype that a new system would mean a re-energized and focused group. Obviously that has not happened.

[whitesoxfan99]

The other part of this to not ignore though is...with Butler under contract and the young guys the Bulls do have, plus the general weakness in the East that will keep them in the playoffs yearly, they're going to be able to convince themselves that they're only 1 piece away and that they don't need to do a major overhaul. They might not be wrong either, but then they'll just keep trying to acquire that "one last piece" and whiffing on it or having it not be enough. (Which does sound vaguely familiar).

 

There isn't a player on the Bulls roster other than Butler below the age of 30 that is an above average NBA starter (that includes Rose until proven otherwise because he has either been hurt, terrible or mediocre at best for 4 years now). I certainly hope they aren't thinking this team is one piece away.

[whitesoxfan99]

I agree with the bolded parts of this. There's clearly an issue with these guys playing together. That's on Hoiberg to fix and at least he's trying with a variety of different rotations. A lot of these games have come down to energy and some good ol' fashioned TWTW.

 

Disagree entirely. You aren't a top 5 defensive team in the league if you aren't playing hard. It comes down to this team being terrible on offense.

[Kyyle23]

This is nonsense. The players are just as much to blame for this mess as the front office and Hoiberg. Losing to teams like Charlotte and Brooklyn is inexcusable. I don't care if Hoiberg's rotations are bad or he doesn't use TO's appropriately or whatever. The Bulls' roster is heads and shoulders above those teams no matter who they put out.

 

Do i want them to act like professionals? sure. But it isnt the first time an organization has had turmoil in the front office that bled into the court/field product, and they are acting like it bothers them. San Francisco 49ers last season was pretty similar.

 

Maybe i was wrong to say I dont blame them, it would be better to say this doesnt surprise me

[Jenksismyhero]

Disagree entirely. You aren't a top 5 defensive team in the league if you aren't playing hard. It comes down to this team being terrible on offense.

 

That won't last. And pounding the ball for 15 seconds every possession isn't really playing hard in my book. I understand and agree that's because the system is s*** right now, but there's still no excuse for it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Do i want them to act like professionals? sure. But it isnt the first time an organization has had turmoil in the front office that bled into the court/field product, and they are acting like it bothers them. San Francisco 49ers last season was pretty similar.

 

Maybe i was wrong to say I dont blame them, it would be better to say this doesnt surprise me

 

Last years Bears team would have been a better example.

 

The problem with this theory is that the Bulls have beaten good teams sporadically all year. Cleveland, San Antonio, OKC, Memphis, LA. They played GS really well up until the last 4 minutes. So clearly "it" is there on some nights. But look at the losses. Minnesota. Charlotte. Brooklyn. Detroit. Phoenix. sub-.500 teams. If it was dysfunction why wouldn't that bleed into all of their games?

[Chisoxfn]

I agree with the bolded parts of this. There's clearly an issue with these guys playing together. That's on Hoiberg to fix and at least he's trying with a variety of different rotations. A lot of these games have come down to energy and some good ol' fashioned TWTW.

Outside of that one blowout (Hornets I thinK) and the Knicks game where they were dead, this team seems to have had pretty big leads at different points of almost every game. That tells you the talent is their. What they f*** they do with that is beyond pathetic, but this team has to learn to play complete basketball. Problem is right now their are at least three players with agendas: Rose, Butler, and Gasol.

[Steve9347]

Instead of piling on, why not just answer the question he asked a post above you?

I'll text Zoom to come out an end to this.

[Steve9347]

Outside of that one blowout (Hornets I thinK) and the Knicks game where they were dead, this team seems to have had pretty big leads at different points of almost every game. That tells you the talent is their. What they f*** they do with that is beyond pathetic, but this team has to learn to play complete basketball. Problem is right now their are at least three players with agendas: Rose, Butler, and Gasol.

They just lost to the Nets. The team is a clusterf*** and needs a huge shakeup.

[Chisoxfn]

There isn't a player on the Bulls roster other than Butler below the age of 30 that is an above average NBA starter (that includes Rose until proven otherwise because he has either been hurt, terrible or mediocre at best for 4 years now). I certainly hope they aren't thinking this team is one piece away.

Below 30 part is tough. Noah / Taj / Gasol are all average to above average players. Yes, they are older, but they provide value. I look at this another way, who on this roster do I think are assets and tradeable for an asset (how valuabe the asset, one can debate, but we'll include):

 

Roster:

 

Solid Value Or Better:

Butler

Gasol

Noah (presuming he bounces back from injury...he was playing very good and is an expiring which in an of itself is an asset)

Taj

Niko (value is lowering, but he's still young and a lot of teams would like to see if he can develop...especially as teams are looking more and more into those stretch 4's...and I think plenty of teams will look at his game and presume he can improve that 3)

 

Some Value (but still a solid chip):

McDermott (not sure where to put him, clearly he's taken major steps forward this year and looks like a productive player on a playoff team)

Snell (clearly a rotational guy)

Bobby Portis (far more upside in keeping the guy right now...looks like he has a ton of potential...whether he pans out or not, who knows, but a lot to like)

 

Non Assets (some of these guys could be moved, but you are getting zero back):

MDJ (purely due to injury)

Brooks

Moore

Hinrich

All other bums that I ignored

 

Hell if I know:

Drose (I'd have put him on non-assets except for the fact that Zach Lowe seemed to think he's still an asset).

[Chisoxfn]

They just lost to the Nets. The team is a clusterf*** and needs a huge shakeup.

The Warriors lost to the Bucks (and almost lost to them twice). Bucks are tied for 5th fewest wins in the association. Even good teams have bad losses.

 

IIRC, 72 wins Bulls team also lost to some pretty bad teams (Nuggets / Bucks if I recall).

[Steve9347]

The Warriors lost to the Bucks (and almost lost to them twice). Bucks are tied for 5th fewest wins in the association. Even good teams have bad losses.

 

IIRC, 72 wins Bulls team also lost to some pretty bad teams (Nuggets / Bucks if I recall).

The difference between the Nets and the Bucks is huge. The Bucks are loaded with talent and coached by a wife-beating clown who went to the Scott Skiles School of F*cking with Your Team's Mojo.

[Chisoxfn]

Bulls evidently dangling Taj / Noah to get a wing. Per WOJ.

 

http://www.blogabull.com/2015/12/23/106588...-to-find-a-wing

[Steve9347]

Bulls evidently dangling Taj / Noah to get a wing. Per WOJ.

 

http://www.blogabull.com/2015/12/23/106588...-to-find-a-wing

No one wants either of those dinosaur bigs, but an obvious target is Rudy Gay. Guy is still legit from anywhere on the floor.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

The Bulls remind of the recent Sox teams of the past few years in the respect that they feel internally that they're good enough to compete, but realistically, they're a good 2 or 3 pieces away from being a real contender.

 

[Chisoxfn]

The Bulls remind of the recent Sox teams of the past few years in the respect that they feel internally that they're good enough to compete, but realistically, they're a good 2 or 3 pieces away from being a real contender.

Yeah...no...it wasn't just the Bulls. Vegas, top analysts, etc, everyone had the Bulls as one of the top teams for most of the Thibbs era. Injuries and other issues might have cropped up, but they consistently made the playoffs. Performance may have faded but it is nothing like the White Sox (imo). I'd love if the White Sox had a string of success like the Bulls have recently had. Sure it hasn't been the ultimate goal, but outside of a few teams, they have been the best team in the league for the past 7 or 8 years. Unfortunately, they haven't won it all, but I don't think the solution is going all 76ers either.

 

Lakers and 76ers both suck and barring anything drastic they might continue to suck for a long time. Look at the Spurs and how long they went in between titles for a while..they stuck with it and won. If I were to compare bulls to anyone is would probably be the Mavs and maybe they don't get lucky and win that title, but who knows. I certainly wouldn't bet on it, but the east is week. If they could legit upgrade, who knows. I don't know that they can be an upper echelon team without a significant improvement in Rose (or benching him and finding a league average PG).

 

Rose's performance really really hurts the Bulls. He is so beyond bad (performance wise).

[shipps]

Bulls evidently dangling Taj / Noah to get a wing. Per WOJ.

 

http://www.blogabull.com/2015/12/23/106588...-to-find-a-wing

 

Does Taj have any value on the trade market, like at all?

 

I think Noah could still be a valuable piece to someone who is on the verge but needs that veteran fiery presence to play limited minutes.

[DBAHO]

Bulls evidently dangling Taj / Noah to get a wing. Per WOJ.

 

http://www.blogabull.com/2015/12/23/106588...-to-find-a-wing

Wonder if the Bulls would trade one of those contracts for Joe Johnson's ending deal.

 

Otherwise someone like Gallinari from the Nuggets is probably who I figure they'd like to target as a 3, someone who can shoot and is a good ball handler.

[bmags]

Wonder if the Bulls would trade one of those contracts for Joe Johnson's ending deal.

 

Otherwise someone like Gallinari from the Nuggets is probably who I figure they'd like to target as a 3, someone who can shoot and is a good ball handler.

 

Why are you trying to ruin our Christmas, D?

[Brian]

To those who have the NBA system down, could the Bulls do some kinda deal with Noah and taj and something for boogie, plus flip Gasol to Memphis or some place for something small?